DiddyBum - Posted - 10/22/2016:  19:02:40

Greetings hangout,

   I have an issue I am trying to figure out and thought I would see what the pros thought. I play a Deering Goodtime Classic Special Openback Banjo.

  I recently switched from a rennaisance head to a Balch 4 star Goatskin. I'm experience problems with my tension ring sitting above my fingerboard and I cant seem to find a solution.

It could be that I need a head with a higher crown?

It could be that this head would work but I need a tension hoop with a cutout at the fingerboard like I've seen on stewmac?

I removed the neck to do the head install. I took it on and off a few times to see if I could be missing something as far as adjusting the neck upwards, but it cant move far enough to cover the tension hoop. I only tightened the head to about an 82 on the drum dial, which is where it feels nice to me, it doesnt seem like going tighter would pull the tension hoop/head down far enough to clear the fingerboard. I have playability up to the last couple frets where the string contacts the tension hoop when the last couple frets are pressed.

On a side note, the head looks and sounds beautiful. Pictures of the issue getting posted ASAP.

Thanks,

  Matt

DiddyBum - Posted - 10/22/2016:  19:15:14

Here are photos

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/22/2016:  19:31:18

Give it a few days and keep tightening. You'll be surprised how far down the tension hoop can go from just a little tightening. Don't give up! You'll have it at least even with the fingerboard before you know it.

Or, you can always take a file and file a slot in the tension hoop wide enough for the strings to pass over. Work slow and patiently, and touch it up with emery paper and crocus cloth and steel wool.

sculliganman - Posted - 10/22/2016:  21:18:41

Matt, bring the neck up the rim until the strings don't touch the tension hoop when fretted at the last fret. I had the same situation when I changed a head.

Parker135 - Posted - 10/23/2016:  05:35:33

My understanding is that he did that already. There is not much variation possible in where the Goodtime neck meets the pot. Hopefully the head will continue stretching enough to get the tension hoop down close to where it belongs. I'd lean toward a little more tension to help that along. I'd also contact John Balch to get his thoughts before trying things like dampening the head and that sort of thing.

majesty - Posted - 10/23/2016:  06:56:35

The last skin head I ordered and tried to mount was too thick, and would not mount, no way. Your tension hooks appear to be stressed trying to grab the tension hoop. but maybe that's an illusion. If you really want this skin head on your banjo, then make a groove in the tension hoop, as fathand suggested. This is not a high end banjo, so the value will not depreciate worth worrying about. If you bought a tension hoop from Stew- MacDonald, it would have a GROOVE in the tension hoop. My thoughts only.

majesty - Posted - 10/23/2016:  07:17:13

Oops, I meant do as Old Timer suggested. 

Grizzly Adams - Posted - 10/23/2016:  07:26:17

I would give John a call. :)

brandx - Posted - 10/23/2016:  07:57:11

By all means give John a call.He is a fantastic individual;and always eager to help in any way he can.
Red

banjobrewer - Posted - 10/23/2016:  08:34:22

Keep slowly tightening over a few days. I always think my skin heads have to low of crown until I start wishing it had a lower crown a week later.

BDCA - Posted - 10/23/2016:  08:35:24

A friend had a similar problem and solved it by wetting the head then tensioning it to the point the tension ring was at the correct level and then let it dry in place. I recently had John make a couple of heads to my specs for a RAMSEY using a higher than normal crown and the results are PERFECT!

Also note that the raised tension ring affects the height of a No Knot and downward pressure on the bridge, detrimentally affecting tone.

Bob

Dan Drabek - Posted - 10/23/2016:  09:13:42

Is the flesh hoop on your head bottoming out on the neck notch, or does it have clearance enough to go lower? If not, tightening won't work.

Filing a neck notch would be the simplest solution. But you will lose the plating where you file. No big deal in this case. 

DD

Carl Arcand - Posted - 10/23/2016:  10:10:34

I agree with Dan.  I would  file the tension hoop.   1/8 deep x 2 1/4 inch wide with a file and polish it  with sandpapers.

Tightening the head too much will result in an overstretch head and will ruin it.

If you want a tighter head use a hair dryer to remove the humidity out of it. 

bartmcneil - Posted - 10/23/2016:  13:54:02

Assuming you have a little room to lower the tension hoop a bit, warm water on the head will loosen the skin head allowing the tension hoop to be lowered another eighth of an inch, which is all you need. The skin head will shrink as it dries, tightening the head perfectly.. I suspect the problem is that you are not used to installing skin heads.

Do not file a notch in your in your hoop. It is totally unnecessary. It is highly unlikely that you are doing damage to your tension hooks

.Mr. Balch sells lots of skin heads to Deering Goodtime owners. It will almost certainly fit yours. If not, call Mr. Balch.. But I think the warm water solution  will do the trick nicely..

Installing a new head is much easier if the neck is removed from the pot.

Edited by - bartmcneil on 10/23/2016 13:56:42

bartmcneil - Posted - 10/23/2016:  15:17:54

Also I would suggest your putting away your drum dial until the head is properly installed. Then use it if you wish, but it is not necessary when installing a skin or plastic head.

bartmcneil - Posted - 10/24/2016:  04:43:15

It just occurred to me that the first head (which you returned) was probably ok too and would have worked had you used the warm water solution to soften and make the skin head more flexible. Moisture does little if any damage to the skin head. Your own skin acts much like the animal skin absorbing moisture and releasing it depending on the humidity wherever you are.

Once you have successfully installed your new head you will be adjusting the head due to humidity changes quite often. It is the nature of the skin head..

Edited by - bartmcneil on 10/24/2016 04:45:07

DiddyBum - Posted - 10/24/2016:  07:46:24

Thanks everyone for your pointers. I will give it more time and tightening before I groove my stretcher band.

Bert, I'm not sure where from reading my post you got the idea that I either returned a head or changed heads without removing the neck.

bartmcneil - Posted - 10/24/2016:  08:03:34

I don't know either.... But the point is the head can easily be installed while damp even if difficult when dry.