egretflats - Posted - 09/24/2016:  18:45:36

Any special technique other than loosening all 38 hooks?  I bought the Buckbee with the overlapped joint on the neck side of the pot, pushing the neck out 1/16"instead of on the tail piece side, spacing the tail end of the coordinator rod 1/16" from the rim. Will the skin hold up to loosening and re-tightening? 

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 09/24/2016:  19:00:48

I can't really think of any other way, but I will advise being very careful to make sure that the skin isn't sticking to either the tension hoop or the rim.

rudy - Posted - 09/24/2016:  19:30:38

quote:

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Originally posted by egretflats

Any special technique other than loosening all 38 hooks?  I bought the Buckbee with the overlapped joint on the neck side of the pot, pushing the neck out 1/16"instead of on the tail piece side, spacing the tail end of the coordinator rod 1/16" from the rim. Will the skin hold up to loosening and re-tightening? 

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The hide most likely could stand the move, but I'd most likely not elect to rotate the tension band while it's still over the head.  It would be much better if you pull the hooks away from the band, lift the band off, and reposition as necessary.

The more important question is WHY it was done that way in the first place.  Without actually examining the instrument I'd guess that it was done intentionally to make an effort to increase the neck angle to accommodate steel strings.  You may find the neck angle to be way too low or possibly the neck will end up having excessive flex at the heel to rim connection rendering it very difficult to tune or intonate correctly.

The bottom line is that you really have to closely examine these "repairs" on a case by case basis.

egretflats - Posted - 09/24/2016:  20:20:58

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quote

:It has minstrel strings tuned to D. They are 1/4" from a fairly new dyed goatskin head at neck. It appears to have purposely been rotated. Doesn't stay in tune well. John

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Originally posted by rudy

 

quote:

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Originally posted by egretflats

Any special technique other than loosening all 38 hooks?  I bought the Buckbee with the overlapped joint on the neck side of the pot, pushing the neck out 1/16"instead of on the tail piece side, spacing the tail end of the coordinator rod 1/16" from the rim. Will the skin hold up to loosening and re-tightening? 

---

The hide most likely could stand the move, but I'd most likely not elect to rotate the tension band while it's still over the head.  It would be much better if you pull the hooks away from the band, lift the band off, and reposition as necessary.

The more important question is WHY it was done that way in the first place.  Without actually examining the instrument I'd guess that it was done intentionally to make an effort to increase the neck angle to accommodate steel strings.  You may find the neck angle to be way too low or possibly the neck will end up having excessive flex at the heel to rim connection rendering it very difficult to tune or intonate correctly.

The bottom line is that you really have to closely examine these "repairs" on a case by case basis.

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G Edward Porgie - Posted - 09/25/2016:  06:52:28

Rudy offers good advice about removing the lifting the tension band entirely, rather than merely turning it. It is also very good advice to to consider all the reasons why the tension hoop may have been installed improperly in the first place (although in my experience most of these kinds of issues are due to inexperienced or sloppy/stupid repair people). You could also be facing issues with an out-of-round rim which might make it tricky to get the hoop to the right position.

While you're at it, definitely inspect the dowelstick to neck joint. The extra stress of the mis-positioned hoop could have loosened the joint or possibly even cracked something. The riveted  joint of the tension hoop may have been placed at the neck in order to try to make a loose joint seem stable.

You will surely have some set-up issues when things are in their correct places. The head will probably survive (unless it's stuck to something due to corrosion), but you'll most likely need to deal with neck angle issues, and will most certainly need to change the bridge placement or possibly even change the bridge height. 

egretflats - Posted - 09/25/2016:  17:52:43

quote:

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Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

 

Rudy offers good advice about removing the lifting the tension band entirely, rather than merely turning it. It is also very good advice to to consider all the reasons why the tension hoop may have been installed improperly in the first place (although in my experience most of these kinds of issues are due to inexperienced or sloppy/stupid repair people). You could also be facing issues with an out-of-round rim which might make it tricky to get the hoop to the right position.

While you're at it, definitely inspect the dowelstick to neck joint. The extra stress of the mis-positioned hoop could have loosened the joint or possibly even cracked something. The riveted  joint of the tension hoop may have been placed at the neck in order to try to make a loose joint seem stable.

You will surely have some set-up issues when things are in their correct places. The head will probably survive (unless it's stuck to something due to corrosion), but you'll most likely need to deal with neck angle issues, and will most certainly need to change the bridge placement or possibly even change the bridge height. 

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XXXris - Posted - 09/25/2016:  18:38:52

A couple more things to think about, based on Buckbees I have played around with:

* if it is a spun-over pot, there may be sharp parts of the metal at the top of the hoop, which could cut the head. Don't ask me how I know that.

* many of these instruments have slightly out-of-round pots, meaning that your flesh hoop and head might not fit perfectly when rotated; may not be a big deal.

If it doesn't survive, no big deal--there are some great skin heads available these days. Surf around here on BHO for sources.

Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 09/25/2016:  18:45:24

Smakula Fretted Instruments carrries economy grade calfskin heads that are very affordable for people like me who are new to the whole thing, and installing the one I did was much easier than I had feared it would be.  You'll still have the flesh hoop from the old head even if the skin gets torn.

Zach

egretflats - Posted - 09/26/2016:  09:09:59

Thanks for all the input.  I'm warming up to loosening and lifting the companion ring and examining the lap joint, hoping it still has a viable spot weld, moving it to the tail end and putting it all back together. It seems like it should all fit back together if the skin and ring don't stick together.  Thanks, john