banjotrader - Posted - 09/22/2016:  08:59:26

Hi folks,



Here is the updated dating chart for the Fairbank&Cole, A.C Fairbanks & Vega banjos.



Much work has been done in the last year to clean up the 1880-1922 timelines.



Such as:

Dec. 1890 Patent

​Columbian

1904 Fire

Consalvi Departure to Italy & Return

Consalvi's departure from company



This work is an extension to previous efforts done here: banjohangout.org/archive/296508.



Should you have any insights that can further improve this model, please PM me.



Thank you to:

Shawn McSweeny, Hank Schwartz, Jim Bollman and many others for helping get things this far.

Edited by - banjotrader on 07/13/2017 06:14:44

hbick2 - Posted - 09/23/2016:  07:43:33

I have been studying early Fairbanks banjos for quite a while, both my own and what pictures I have of others, and have come to the conclusion that our current numbering models start a year off. Here is why.

I own Fairbanks Electric #67, my buddy Harry Sparks owns #67 and I have photographs of #45, which sold on Ebay a year or so ago. All of these banjos have the Electric patent stamp on the inside of the rim. The stamp contains the date Dec 30, 1890. This means that these three banjos could not have been produced before Dec 30, 1890, when the patent was granted. I doubt seriously that they went out and had a stamp made on Dec 30, stamped these banjos and produced another 755 banjos on New Years Eve. More likely, they probably began their new numbering scheme sometime in 1891, once they had the patent stamp in hand. It's possible that these banjos and the other 44 before them were produced in 1890 and sat around and waited for the patent stamp, but I doubt it. They still couldn't have been released before the end of 1890.

Taking this a step farther, and expanding on what Dr. Bill Michael says on banjoonmyknee, I would surmise that the old Fairbanks & Cole numbering system was used throughout most of, if not all of 1890. #8862 is an A.C. Fairbanks banjo that clearly has the characteristics of a Fairbanks and Cole banjo. #9509 is a Fairbanks Piccolo banjo with F&C characteristics. #9986 is a Fairbanks Electric with numerous F&C characteristics. #10000 is a gorgeous Custom Electric banjo with a lot of F&C characteristics. It is possible that this is the point at which they stopped using the old numbering system and started the new one. There is no way to tell for sure.

If anyone has an Electric banjo with a stamp before #45, it would be helpful to have that information. I have more to say on this subject, but I think this is enough for now.

Harry Bickel

banjotrader - Posted - 09/23/2016:  08:06:54

Agreed Harry 1880-1894 is a bit of a mystery and your insights will factor into this period as we revise. Please do share any other of your thoughts, they are very welcome.

Edited by - banjotrader on 09/23/2016 08:07:22

hbick2 - Posted - 09/23/2016:  08:23:37

Another thing that I believe might help us narrow down the dates a little more is the Columbian Exposition. It was a landmark event that only lasted for 6 months, May 1, 1893 to October 30, 1893, although President Harrison proclaimed the anniversary of the discovery of America on Oct. 21, 1892. I think it is reasonable to assume that the Fairbanks Columbian banjos were produced around this time to capitalize on the popularity of the fair, at least the earlier group. Here are the numbers for Columbian banjos that I have:  

#2392; #2857; #3089; #3707; #15246; #16109; #16408; #16844; #17944

I would think that #2392 through #3707 would have been in the group produced in mid to late 1893. I would love to know of other Columbian serial numbers,, particularly in this range. I'm not sure what to think about the later Columbians. Maybe it was just a model that they kept in their catalog and produced on special order. Maybe they had a stamp and felt compelled to use it. 

Andy FitzGibbon - Posted - 09/23/2016:  18:08:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjotrader

Agreed Harry 1880-1894 is a bit of a mystery and your insights will factor into this period as we revise. Please do share any other of your thoughts, they are very welcome.

---

BanjoJane - Posted - 11/16/2016:  05:23:27

So do we think that a #7 with a serial number of 23702 is unlikely to be Consalvi?

banjotrader - Posted - 11/16/2016:  05:42:29

if you can post pictures of the engraved inlays, it would be very helpful.  I appears that Consalvi's work was there for that period until 239XX

kyleb - Posted - 11/16/2016:  06:50:30

I have an S.C. Thompson branded fairbanks with the number 236 on it, I have been told by various experts and can see from the construction that this is an a.c. fairbanks made banjo. Does anyone know if they would have used the same numbering system on the banjos they made for other brands? If so is it safe to date this to 1891? It has an electric tone ring.

skip sail - Posted - 11/23/2016:  15:08:12

my WL#7 ,serial number 23702 is DEFINITELY Consalvi engraved, thats been verified by several experts

rcc56 - Posted - 11/23/2016:  16:11:15

Does anyone have a year by year number list for the Fairbanks made Bacons?

banjotrader - Posted - 11/23/2016:  16:21:05

acoustudio.dk/BD_and_Bacon_database.html
Is a good place to start for anything Bacon.

As proposed in the model above 23702 fits the Consalvi timeline.

Edited by - banjotrader on 11/23/2016 16:22:48

joe28675 - Posted - 11/23/2016:  21:13:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by kyleb

 

I have an S.C. Thompson branded fairbanks with the number 236 on it, I have been told by various experts and can see from the construction that this is an a.c. fairbanks made banjo. Does anyone know if they would have used the same numbering system on the banjos they made for other brands? If so is it safe to date this to 1891? It has an electric tone ring.

---

That's strange, I have an S.C.Thompson, looks to be made by W.A.Cole. Serial number 236. 

Headplate

Stick

aaronglss - Posted - 03/24/2017:  14:39:16

I have an A.C. Fairbanks Columbian #3093

RB3WREATH - Posted - 03/25/2017:  03:49:53

23565 is Consalvi

Edited by - RB3WREATH on 03/25/2017 03:56:11