Nashvolk5 - Posted - 08/13/2016:  13:37:23

instagram.com/p/BJD-WY_AAYP/?t...nashevolk

Hello Hangout! So I decided to test out nylon strings on my banjo, but I think I'm about to go back to steel strings. I think it sounds hollow, dull, and muted, but my dad said he likes this sound better. What do y'all think?

Edited by - Nashvolk5 on 08/13/2016 13:40:21

Dan Drabek - Posted - 08/13/2016:  14:44:19

I think you have better hearing than your dad. 

On the other hand, the nylon strings probably reduce the volume of your banjo--which might tell you something.  :->

DD

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/13/2016:  15:06:40

quote:

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Originally posted by Nashvolk

 

instagram.com/p/BJD-WY_AAYP/?t...nashevolk

Hello Hangout! So I decided to test out nylon strings on my banjo, but I think I'm about to go back to steel strings. I think it sounds hollow, dull, and muted, but my dad said he likes this sound better. What do y'all think?

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There is more to setup than just tossing on a set.  The most important change that needs to be made is the bridge.  The modern thick and overbuilt pattern caused exactly the dull and muted sound you describe.

My friend Greg Adams recently posted a great video that has a good representation of the clear and sharp tone that one can get from nylon...

Edited by - Joel Hooks on 08/13/2016 15:07:21

Dan Drabek - Posted - 08/13/2016:  15:55:19

Joel, it looks like a plastic head.  Are you sure those are nylon strings? Nylon is usually a lot more visible than steel, but I can't see those strings at all. The banjo does sound bright, but I'd need to hear it played side by side against a standard bluegrass banjo, and playing a bluegrass tune, to come to any real conclusions about it's suitability for bluegrass. It does seem to have somewhat restricted sustain and controlled overtones. Of course a lot depends on the recording technique. There is much more to the "bluegrass sound" than clarity and sharpness. We could equally compare the sound of an archtop guitar with a flat top for bluegrass suitability. The differences can be subtle, but instantly obvious to the listener.

DD

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/13/2016:  17:47:42

It is a Ren head.  Nah, nylon is not for bluegrass.

Greg only plays nylon strings.

Regarding Greg's tone-- that is what nylon should sound like.  The problem is that the current standard of strings are too thick.  Way too thick.

I'm attaching a couple of videos.  This was done before I got my WL really dialed in.  I am also attaching some recordings that Fred Van Eps made in 1950.  All done on nylon strings.

Smiler Rag

Indian Summer

Maple Leaf Rag

VIDEO: Watch Hill, March and Two Step
(click to view)

VIDEO: Tyro Mazurka Classic Banjo Solo
(click to view)

 

 

 

Dan Drabek - Posted - 08/13/2016:  17:55:04

Thanks for that Joel. The banjo is an amazingly versitile instrument.

DD

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 08/13/2016:  21:04:15

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

 

It is a Ren head.  Nah, nylon is not for bluegrass.

Greg only plays nylon strings.

Regarding Greg's tone-- that is what nylon should sound like.  The problem is that the current standard of strings are too thick.  Way too thick.

I'm attaching a couple of videos.  This was done before I got my WL really dialed in.  I am also attaching some recordings that Fred Van Eps made in 1950.  All done on nylon strings.

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This is all wonderful playing.

However, you have incorrectly credited "The Smiler" to Mr. Van Eps. This piece was actually written by Percy Wenrich in 1907, and published by the Arnett-Delonais Company of Chicago. It was originally composed for piano, so Van Eps no doubt did transpose and arrange it.

Incidentally, I have a recording of the piece done eons ago as part of a medley by the Van Eps trio, and another uncredited solo version which sounds to me like Van Eps' style and attack on a 5 1/2 inch one sided "Little Wonder" record. I guess he liked this tune.

Bufo Bill - Posted - 08/14/2016:  06:58:40

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

 

This was done before I got my WL really dialed in. 

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Hi Joel, is there a thread where you take us through how you dialled in your white ladie tone? This would be invaluable to people over on the Polymer Strings Group page, to which this thread is linked. 

Many thanks from Bill. :D

gottasmilealot - Posted - 08/14/2016:  08:40:39

Try lowering your head tension and adjusting the tailpiece so the head can vibrate more freely.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/14/2016:  10:16:32

quote:

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Originally posted by Bufo Bill

 

 

 

quote:

 

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks



 

This was done before I got my WL really dialed in. 

 

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Hi Joel, is there a thread where you take us through how you dialled in your white ladie tone? This would be invaluable to people over on the Polymer Strings Group page, to which this thread is linked. 

 

Many thanks from Bill. :D

 

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Nothing to say really.  It is a Eastman make.  I tightened the head.  I put on a Colby version of the Fred Van Eps tailpiece.  And I eventually settled on a Bacon "Neverslip" pattern bridge.

I was using the current version of LaBella No. 17 (which have been made thicker and are now .019 for the first and fifth) but learned that Strings By Mail is now offering Labella singles in the proper thickness sold as "Lute Strings."

The sizes I am using are .017, .019, .023 and .024 wound.  The tone I am trying to for is very bright and clear with plenty of volume.  I am not a fan of the dead and quiet sounding banjos that are popular today.

At some point in time nylon got a reputation for being quieter than wire.  It is not true with the correct setup and right hand attack.  If one just tosses on a set and uses the same overbuilt wire string bridge that they were before, then plays the exact same way as before then the experience will be dissatisfying.