I just set up a Student's El Degas open back banjo assumably from the 1970's. It was open back, made out of aluminum tubing/pipe 11" rim I think about 3/16" thick with shoes. It sounded as good as any bottle cap banjo maybe better than some. Of course Deering makes the Boston out of Steel Tubing or do they roll it themselves?
I often see plastic drainage pipe in large diameters about construction sites that I wonder if they might make a decent economy banjo rim. These seem to be thicker maybe 1/2".
I wouldn't know how to cut it other than very carefully on the table saw, and that it something I would not be all that keen to try. I like the look of wood better anyhow, but if you wanted the aluminum sound it could be an interesting experiment.
There was a guy playing behind me at CROMA this year and his banjo and his playing sounded great. When we were done, I turned around to compliment both. He made the banjo and the rim was a "slice" off a pressure cooker!
If I still lived in the Platte Valley in central Nebraska, I would have good access to aluminum or plastic irrigation pipe in several different sizes that have been damaged. The pipe is stacked and stored after the last irrigation and tied down. Aluminum pipe seems to "escape" on occasion due to high winds and gets bent and turns into scrap. Sometimes pipe gets run in to with vehicles or machinery. A large, horizontal band saw would make short work of cutting rims off the damaged pipe.
I wouldn't know how to cut it other than very carefully on the table saw, and that it something I would not be all that keen to try. I like the look of wood better anyhow, but if you wanted the aluminum sound it could be an interesting experiment.
Zach
My answer to wanting "wood look" would be to wrap the rim in wood veneer.
The aluminum I'm looking at is .25 thick, so it is substantial and is referred to as tubing.
So plastic drainage and PVC should be looked at.
I can't, after trying, understand the steel pipe thing.
My understanding is that the difference between being labelled tubing or pipe is that tubing is sold by outside diameter and pipe by inside. There are however different manufacturing methods in tubing, one being DOM "Drawn Over Mandrel" which is supposed to be higher quality (used for motorcycle frames) than the type with a seam.
I would try it if I could get it cheap. I've used pressure cookers and other cooking pans for a variety of pots. My favorite is the top section of a pressure cooker with one of the handles saved for the tailpiece. It's a loud and good sounding banjo.
There is fear and trepidation about cutting, pressure cookers have to be high quality aluminum. How did you cut yours?
It was the least pleasant and most dangerous part of building the banjo. I used a small blade (2" diameter) mounted on a mandrel which I chucked into my Shopsmith in drill press mode. I went round and round the cooker cutting a slot in it all the way around and deepening it each pass. I had to frequently stop to clean the aluminum that loaded up in the teeth. When I got through the wall in a few spots, I switched over to a saber saw with a hacksaw blade. Aluminum loading and clogging up the teeth is a major problem. Waxing the blade helps a lot. Since then I have purchased a proper metal cutting blade, I think 6 or 7" diameter. I intend to build a blade guard/guide for it as soon as I get the time and inclination to try this again.
There is fear and trepidation about cutting, pressure cookers have to be high quality aluminum. How did you cut yours?
It was the least pleasant and most dangerous part of building the banjo. I used a small blade (2" diameter) mounted on a mandrel which I chucked into my Shopsmith in drill press mode. I went round and round the cooker cutting a slot in it all the way around and deepening it each pass. I had to frequently stop to clean the aluminum that loaded up in the teeth. When I got through the wall in a few spots, I switched over to a saber saw with a hacksaw blade. Aluminum loading and clogging up the teeth is a major problem. Waxing the blade helps a lot. Since then I have purchased a proper metal cutting blade, I think 6 or 7" diameter. I intend to build a blade guard/guide for it as soon as I get the time and inclination to try this again.
Ever think of an angle grinder and a cut off wheel? Wear full face protection.
I've cut several pressure cookers to make rims. Metal cutting wheels on an angle grinder got too hot. The ally got soft and clogged. My best results were with a jigsaw using a fine metal cutting blade and plenty of cutting compound ( and patience), starting with a drilled hole. It was accurate but you do need to clamp the cooker down. UK pressure cooker appear to be smaller than those in the US. Bigger appetites I guess. All the ones I've cut up have been 7 & 7/8 inches dia. OK for Ukes. I've never found one approaching 11 inches.
Pictures were meant to be attached but I can't get them to download from camera to PC which is different from PC file to Hangout problems!
I use the angle grinder with those very wheels to cut steel and have gone through many packs of them over the years, but I have not tried them on aluminum. So far all of the aluminum I have had to cut has been small enough that I could work with it using the stationary woodworking tools in my shop, but I can't cut as big of a thing as an 11 or 12" circle. I don't think I get a very accurate cut using a handheld tool without a shoe, but maybe I could rig up a shoe to the angle grinder to help it stay steady. It seems like that might help, anyhow.
There is fear and trepidation about cutting, pressure cookers have to be high quality aluminum. How did you cut yours?
It was the least pleasant and most dangerous part of building the banjo. I used a small blade (2" diameter) mounted on a mandrel which I chucked into my Shopsmith in drill press mode. I went round and round the cooker cutting a slot in it all the way around and deepening it each pass. I had to frequently stop to clean the aluminum that loaded up in the teeth. When I got through the wall in a few spots, I switched over to a saber saw with a hacksaw blade. Aluminum loading and clogging up the teeth is a major problem. Waxing the blade helps a lot. Since then I have purchased a proper metal cutting blade, I think 6 or 7" diameter. I intend to build a blade guard/guide for it as soon as I get the time and inclination to try this again.
Ever think of an angle grinder and a cut off wheel? Wear full face protection.
I don't want to seem like I'm being critical, but the flange and wheel installation shown in the photo is unsafe. Check your manual for the correct way to install a cutoff wheel, but the flange face should snug against the wheel and not stick up as in the photo. If that's not possible then there's an alternative flange available as aftermarket.
That flange is the same as on my DeWalt. The one in the photo has not been screwed down, it is just sitting on the threaded end, I think, because you can see the shadow with the spots of light shining through. That is the correct side up to screw it on for a thin wheel, a 1/4" thick wheel uses it turned the other way up. At least that's how mine says it is supposed to work. The flange says "THIS SIDE AGAINST 1/4" WHEEL" on the side with the raised boss in the center.
I finally got myself a new Milwaukee sawzall, it's what I use to make discs about 3-1/4" thick so I can quarter saw them into rims. Special blades, I think would be much safer than any grinder.
Yeah, if the supplier would cut it to rim height that would be great.
The banjo I show in my first post above is about 10 3/8" diameter. I have also brought a monstrous pressure cooker at a thrift store that should yield four or more rims, over 12" diameter. I haven't cut it up yet, though. The larger pressure cookers are generally used for home canning meats at high temperature. We've done chicken and pork in one of ours. I wouldn't use an aluminum pressure cooker for direct cooking, any acid in the food (like tomatoes) would eat into the aluminum. We have a stainless steel one for that. I also wouldn't make a banjo from a stainless steel pressure cooker, too hard to cut.
Yeah, if the supplier would cut it to rim height that would be great.
The banjo I show in my first post above is about 10 3/8" diameter. I have also brought a monstrous pressure cooker at a thrift store that should yield four or more rims, over 12" diameter. I haven't cut it up yet, though. The larger pressure cookers are generally used for home canning meats at high temperature. We've done chicken and pork in one of ours. I wouldn't use an aluminum pressure cooker for direct cooking, any acid in the food (like tomatoes) would eat into the aluminum. We have a stainless steel one for that. I also wouldn't make a banjo from a stainless steel pressure cooker, too hard to cut.
I have an aluminum Presto pressure cooker. Bought at a yard sale, I assume it is from the 70's due to the avocado green colour. I cook direct in it all the time, tomatoes in either baked beans or swiss steak. I see no "eating" of the aluminum in a 40 year old cooker.
Trade secret alert........For anyone that wants to work Aluminum with a disc grinder. Get a block of dripping ( fat ) and every now and then just touch the spinning disc into it. It allows grinding and cutting...... no problems.....you do get a bit grubby though.
In '62 there just wasn't a banjo culture, Vega, Ode, Gibson, that was about it.
So...........David Averil, who played football with us, went out into the bean field in Lenexa, you know, next to Olathe, with a hacksaw and came back with a 10" banjo rim, he buffed it to perfection, used a family 4-string neck with a carved heel, ran the 5th string in the air down the side of the neck, used the old hooks, a little 10 inch drum head. First planetaries I ever saw.
He was the first person I ever heard clawhammer. Great little family banjo, wish we had a picture.
Very nice, could you post some sound files of this beauty in action?
Here's a video...
BHO's Tom Berghan owns the banjo, and replaced the head with a skin head for a more mellow tone. He may have some sound files of it with the skin head.
There is a slight difference in sound in the videos of the ones that I have built, but that may be due to other factors. Not having the two of them side by side and set up the same, it is hard to determine if there is any significant tonal differences.
There is a guy in Austin, Tx who builds tongue drums, a.k.a. "hank" drums, out of the small (eg- gas grill) propane tanks. He's often down around the pool at Zilker park. They have great, bell-like tone. I wonder if they would make good rims.
It would scare the bejeezus out of me to cut into a propane tank, but apparently it can be done, safely.
Propane tanks are steel, and, I imagine, rather thin walled. My guess is they would be fine rims, as long as you don't expect them to sound like either wood or aluminum.
I have built several mini banjos using 6" steel pipe. The extra weight helps balance out the weight of the tuners on the little boogers when you are playing one that is setting in your lap. I would'n want to use it on a full sized banjo... they are already heavy enough! Also, steel is hard stuff to work with! I dulled many a Dremel bit carving the flowers on this mini banjo for BHO's Baltimonkey (Jason Selig)!
I have heard of people building banjos from the brake drum of a 50's model car. I have never seen one personally. Are they real heavy... heavier than a "normal" bluegrass banjo?
Fabulous work again Marvin. Carving all those floral designs into steel would drive me crazy. Your patience is amazing.
DD
Thanks Dan. This was a special build several years ago, that was for Jason's daughter for her first birthday. I did things on it that I had never tried before. I kinda went all out on it. I'm fascinated with metal engraving and admire those who do it.... the right way. It is one thing that I wold love to know how to do.
I think that it will sound purty good. Keep us posted as it goes. Are you going to use a plastic head or hide? How about trying both with sound comparison?
I have built several mini banjos using 6" steel pipe. The extra weight helps balance out the weight of the tuners on the little boogers when you are playing one that is setting in your lap. I would'n want to use it on a full sized banjo... they are already heavy enough! Also, steel is hard stuff to work with! I dulled many a Dremel bit carving the flowers on this mini banjo for BHO's Baltimonkey (Jason Selig)!
Marvin's mini banjos are amazing. I recently took the Carly Jane Banjo out and played it, that little banjo really rings and has great projection and sound. I have several banjos, but my daughter's banjo is my favorite one in the house (or any house). The craftsmanship is amazing.
I have built several mini banjos using 6" steel pipe. The extra weight helps balance out the weight of the tuners on the little boogers when you are playing one that is setting in your lap. I would'n want to use it on a full sized banjo... they are already heavy enough! Also, steel is hard stuff to work with! I dulled many a Dremel bit carving the flowers on this mini banjo for BHO's Baltimonkey (Jason Selig)!
Marvin's mini banjos are amazing. I recently took the Carly Jane Banjo out and played it, that little banjo really rings and has great projection and sound. I have several banjos, but my daughter's banjo is my favorite one in the house (or any house). The craftsmanship is amazing.
Marvin's video clips are great as well. Really like his FMB on the mini banjo.
