dat - Posted - 05/21/2016:  07:41:12

anybody mix dawn dish soap in with their round up?  my father in law does and he said that it helps it "stick to the weeds better.   anybody else ever hear that?   I never have mixed anything other than just round up and water, he swears by it though

dennis andrews - Posted - 05/21/2016:  08:16:07

There is an ingredient in Round up that causes Parkinson. I wouldn't be opening a container and mixing anything with it.

Check it out.

Brian T - Posted - 05/21/2016:  08:35:55

Have you noticed that a spray of water on plant leaves just beads up and slides off?  Plant leaves have a very thin waxy coating.  Dawn dish soap (or any other) helps to wet the surface.  I don't think that it's necessary or the mfg (Monsanto?) would have said so on the container.

Round-Up is glyphosate, aka "nasty-shirt."  Gloves and dedicated measuring cups are essential.  This is a growing herbicide = use it on actively growing plants.  Wasted effort on mature plants.

dat - Posted - 05/21/2016:  08:48:30

I spray it on new grass as it pokes it's head up through my gravel

dat - Posted - 05/21/2016:  08:52:59

I may look for a natural grass killer,   I didn't put down a barrier under my gravel, I see now that I should have.   I spread out 3  or 4 inches think gravel around our back porch, sitting area about ten feet out from the porch where our BBQ pit and and table are.   since I didn't put down a weed barrier first,   I catch them as they grow.  I figured 3 or 4 inches of gravel would kill the grass

RonR - Posted - 05/21/2016:  10:28:39

Vinegar works to kill unwanted vegetation and I don't think its bad for the environment.

rwshade - Posted - 05/21/2016:  10:50:58

quote:

---

Originally posted by RonR

 

Vinegar works to kill unwanted vegetation and I don't think its bad for the environment.

---

Vinegar does do quite well. I mix a few drops of dish soap into it to act as an adjuvant.  Vinegar, like Roundup, seems to last 2-3 weeks before it needs to be reapplied. The vinegar breaks down in the soil very quickly (hours) and will not leave a residue in the soil. Plus, vinegar will not poison the aquifer into which your runoff water drains.

Some folks add 1/2 of salt per gallon, but the salt will not break down in the soil, so be careful where you use the salt.

dat - Posted - 05/21/2016:  10:55:12

Was just looking at a vinegar mix, I may try that, cheap and if I keep it up for a week or two, the gravel should keep any sunlight from getting to the grass and roots and it hopefully will slow down

BanjoLink - Posted - 05/21/2016:  11:04:00

Round-up is safe, but like every weed killer you need to read the label and follow instructions.  I have used a lot of it ever since it was developed. Vinegar is not like Round-up if it only lasts two or three weeks.  If you are applying so much Round-up as to get into the aquifer through run-off, you are probably applying way too much and right before a rain storm.....I do neither.

Dish detergent can be used as a surfactant, as previously stated, so that the Round-up will "stick" to the leaves.  I always buy a commercial surfactant, as it is not very expensive and you don't have to bother with the foaming of the soap.

dennis andrews - Posted - 05/21/2016:  11:42:43

As to Round up being safe. My friend was in the landscaping business for a while and used Round up quite a bit. He now has Parkinson and the doctor told him there is an ingredient in it that causes Parkinson.

oly - Posted - 05/21/2016:  12:24:00

Dawn dish soap acts as a surfactant i.e. makes it stick to the leaves of the weeds. I haven't used Round Up, but I have used some other stuff that specifically calls for a dish soap to be added.

South Jersey Mike - Posted - 05/21/2016:  12:50:20

I stopped using roundup once it became apparent what a disaster the stuff is, many countries have outlawed it's use. I do purely organic gardening and landscaping now, and I won't lie - it's a pain in the arse.

BanjoLink - Posted - 05/21/2016:  13:36:15

Many regulatory and scholarly reviews have evaluated the relative toxicity of glyphosate as an herbicide. The German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment toxicology review in 2013 found that "the available data is contradictory and far from being convincing" with regard to correlations between exposure to glyphosate formulations and risk of various cancers, including non-Hodgkin lymphoma (NHL).^[10]

Quote from Wikipedia: "Early epidemiological studies did not find associations between long-term low-level exposure to glyphosate and any disease.^[73][74][75] A 2000 review concluded that "under present and expected conditions of new use, there is no potential for Roundup herbicide to pose a health risk to humans".^[76] A 2002 review by the European Union reached the same conclusion.^[77] In 2013 the European commission reviewed a 2002 finding that had concluded equivocal evidence existed of a relationship between glyphosate exposure during pregnancy and cardiovascularmalformations and found that "there is no increased risk at the levels of exposure below those that caused maternal toxicity."^[78] A 2013 review found that neither glyphosate nor typical glyphosate-based formulations (GBFs) pose a genotoxicity risk in humans under normal conditions of human or environmental exposures.^[79]

A 2014 review article reported a significant association between B-cell lymphoma and glyphosate occupational exposure.^[11] In March 2015 the World Health Organization's International Agency for Research on Cancer classified glyphosate as "probably carcinogenic in humans" (category 2A) based on epidemiological studies, animal studies, and in vitro studies.^[9][12][13]"

^{As you can see this stuff has been tested by many countries and many different agencies.  Like any chemical, repeated exposure has risks, but as little as the average homeowner}

^{uses it, the risks appear to be minimal.  I don't know of any commercially available pesticide, fungicide, or herbicide that doesn't have some risk involved, especially when used}

^{without following the directions on the label.  Homeowner are notorious for thinking if the label says use once ounce of the product per gallon.....two ounces must be twice as good.} 

^{I guess it is like diet soda with certain ingredients in them.......drink 50 or 60 of them a day and chances are bad things will happen.....in addition to having to go to the bath room a lot!}  

Edited by - BanjoLink on 05/21/2016 13:40:08

South Jersey Mike - Posted - 05/21/2016:  13:42:32

You have a unique definition of safe. 

Rawhide Creek - Posted - 05/21/2016:  14:19:49

Another country hear from:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=M8sgEhpHM4k

Drivel - Posted - 05/21/2016:  15:42:21

bubbalouie - Posted - 05/21/2016:  19:52:45

i have a sprayer that I  fill with vinegar,salt & dish soap. It works for weeds & hornet nests.

Edited by - bubbalouie on 05/21/2016 20:01:04

Brian T - Posted - 05/21/2016:  20:01:40

I want command of my little patch to grow what I like.  I don't care what the hoo-doo's say about glyphosate.  I have no plans to spray 50,000 gallons of it.  A little here, a little there so I can grow what I want.

You want nasty s***e?  Try spraying a mix of diesel fuel and paraquat.  Not a whole lot of orchard mowing to do after that.

BanjoLink - Posted - 05/21/2016:  21:22:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Jersey Mike

 

You have a unique definition of safe. 

 

---

Really?  What is unique about handling a product in a prescribed manner?  If you can't do it, then I suggest you stay away from it.

Dieselten - Posted - 05/22/2016:  03:02:18

I use it from time to time but only on a day when there is no wind to prevent overspray problems. I wear gloves, put a drop of surfactant in the mix (I mix 8 litres at a time in the sprayer) and I also add two bottles of coloured food-dye (red or blue) so I can see where I have sprayed. It also shows if I have come into contact with it so the area can be thoroughly washed.

I treat Round Up as a potential dangerous substance. It gets sprayed only on plants I really want to kill, and for those that show resistance, a follow-up is always on the cards. Bamboo is especially persistent and just seems to drink Round Up without any ill effects. I might try a neat spray of white vinegar on that stuff.

TO in JoMO - Posted - 05/22/2016:  04:56:56

When it first came out in the late 1970's we used it on our farm to kill weeds in cotton and soybeans, and a little bottle of concentrate was real expensive but lasted a long time. The directions called for mixing surfactant (which is essentially soap) with Roundup to keep it from dripping off what you sprayed it on. Prior to roundup we used MSMA on weeds and with stuff like johnson grass you had to completely coat the entire plant with the MSMA until it was dripping to kill it. Even then, with the MSMA, it would often just make the leaves turn brown and then it would come back. It took so much of the MSMA we would mix up a 500 gallon tank on a tractor to use it. With Roundup it took so little to do the job we could get away with pump up sprayers. With Roundup all it took was one little spray and it did the job. The soap or surfactant was to keep it from dripping off and getting on your crops.

Helix - Posted - 05/22/2016:  07:44:14

My new favorite: Vinegar/Salt/Dish soap. The acid in the vinegar eats open the stems,the salt goes in and kills the weed, the soap makes it stick to the weeds. And no, you are not salting the earth, just where your weeds are.

bubbalouie - Posted - 05/22/2016:  08:28:28

I don't think the round up we have up here has any poison anymore. You could bathe in it.

Tim13 - Posted - 05/23/2016:  20:14:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by dennis andrews

 

 He now has Parkinson and the doctor told him there is an ingredient in it that causes Parkinson.

 

---

Sounds like it's time to find a new doctor....LOL.  Seriously, that is a bold statement, completely unsupported by any current medical literature.  Your friend should seek out a medical professional that practices evidence based medicine.

Tim

kat eyz - Posted - 05/23/2016:  20:43:27

working in the agriculture arena for the last 33 years i have custom applied 1000's of gallons of roundup ... 24d  ...atrazines ..pesticides ..etc   etc  ...just today i sprayed around 600 acres using a quart of round up per acre ...thats 150 gallons of roundup just today .  so far i dont glow in the dark yet but i have been exposed to alot of chemicals.... i do have this thing for banjos..and banjo music in general though  LOL    

steve davis - Posted - 05/24/2016:  05:55:47

I want nothing to do with roundup.

Owen - Posted - 05/24/2016:  11:01:54

...ah...to extrapolate or not to extrapolate...that is the question.

Tobus - Posted - 05/24/2016:  11:38:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim13

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by dennis andrews

 

 He now has Parkinson and the doctor told him there is an ingredient in it that causes Parkinson.

 

---

Sounds like it's time to find a new doctor....LOL.  Seriously, that is a bold statement, completely unsupported by any current medical literature.  Your friend should seek out a medical professional that practices evidence based medicine.

Tim

---

It may be that the doctor was confused on the chemicals.  A study in 2014, combined with other empirical evidence, seems to suggest that certain pesticides and fungicides are responsible for farmers having a higher incidence of Parkinson's Disease than the population at large.  Glyphosphate was not part of that study (it's an herbicide, not a pesticide), but it's easy to see how a doctor might not know the difference.  It doesn't excuse the doctor from spreading false information, but I can certainly see how his stance would be to advise people to stay away from such chemicals.

And if we're honest with ourselves, do any of us really believe that exposure to chemicals which will kill plants and animals is really harmless to us?  Especially regular, prolonged exposure?  I don't trust Monsanto or our government to be truthful with us.  And even if they can't find any harm in their studies, what they may not know is that it's harming people when it's combined with other chemicals we are exposed to in real life (i.e. not in their clean laboratories with their mice).  For all we know, common medicines or painkillers that people take may be causing glyphosphate to cause real harm.  Maybe, maybe not.  Common sense would seem to tell us to avoid these man-made chemicals if at all possible.

I specifically avoid Roundup due to my utter hatred for Monsanto's business practices, but I do use glyphosphate products from other companies.  As well as products like Remedy Ultra (by Dow), which is a known carcinogen.  Nothing else works for killing mesquite and huisache and cactus and some of the other stuff that will take over my pastures.  I try to be very careful about exposure and use them sparingly, but I do worry about the long-term consequences.

--------------------------------------------

edited to add:  As far as the original question in this thread, I have never used dish soap.  But most folks around here will mix diesel with their sprayed chemicals.  The instructions for Remedy Ultra actually say to do this, as it is oil soluble.  I'm not sure if it works with Roundup, but sometimes making an emulsion with diesel can really help it "stick" to the surface of leaves and blades better.

Edited by - Tobus on 05/24/2016 11:46:07

BanjoLink - Posted - 05/24/2016:  12:33:33

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tobus

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim13

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by dennis andrews

 

 He now has Parkinson and the doctor told him there is an ingredient in it that causes Parkinson.

 

---

Sounds like it's time to find a new doctor....LOL.  Seriously, that is a bold statement, completely unsupported by any current medical literature.  Your friend should seek out a medical professional that practices evidence based medicine.

Tim

---

It may be that the doctor was confused on the chemicals.  A study in 2014, combined with other empirical evidence, seems to suggest that certain pesticides and fungicides are responsible for farmers having a higher incidence of Parkinson's Disease than the population at large.  Glyphosphate was not part of that study (it's an herbicide, not a pesticide), but it's easy to see how a doctor might not know the difference.  It doesn't excuse the doctor from spreading false information, but I can certainly see how his stance would be to advise people to stay away from such chemicals.

And if we're honest with ourselves, do any of us really believe that exposure to chemicals which will kill plants and animals is really harmless to us?  Especially regular, prolonged exposure?  I don't trust Monsanto or our government to be truthful with us.  And even if they can't find any harm in their studies, what they may not know is that it's harming people when it's combined with other chemicals we are exposed to in real life (i.e. not in their clean laboratories with their mice).  For all we know, common medicines or painkillers that people take may be causing glyphosphate to cause real harm.  Maybe, maybe not.  Common sense would seem to tell us to avoid these man-made chemicals if at all possible.

I specifically avoid Roundup due to my utter hatred for Monsanto's business practices, but I do use glyphosphate products from other companies.  As well as products like Remedy Ultra (by Dow), which is a known carcinogen.  Nothing else works for killing mesquite and huisache and cactus and some of the other stuff that will take over my pastures.  I try to be very careful about exposure and use them sparingly, but I do worry about the long-term consequences.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

edited to add:  As far as the original question in this thread, I have never used dish soap.  But most folks around here will mix diesel with their sprayed chemicals.  The instructions for Remedy Ultra actually say to do this, as it is oil soluble.  I'm not sure if it works with Roundup, but sometimes making an emulsion with diesel can really help it "stick" to the surface of leaves and blades better.

---

It is utter nonsense to think that herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, or any other "cides" do not have a certain degree of risk when certain precautions are not taken.  I don't doubt for a second that the more you are exposed to these chemicals the more likely you are to contract certain ailments...many life threatening.  However, for the average home owner, the exposure, when used properly, should be insignificant and I don't worry for a second when I use any of them.  If I inadvertantly get some on my skin I wash it off.  I also don't let the dog out of the house until it dries on the grass or plants and I watch the wind to make sure that the spray goes where I want it.  A little common sense goes a long way.  

I wouldn't think that diesel would mix with water.  You use a surfactant because the hydrophobic action of the plants leaves.  If your emulsion is such that it would mix with diesel, it seems like it would not be affected by the hydrophobic nature of the plant leaf.