dizzo - Posted - 03/24/2016:  18:17:44

Hey folks

So im one of the stelling fans. Great build. Fit and finish are flawless. Beauty is unparalleled. Here's the thing, everything you read about stelling talks about "that stelling sound". I'm here to say that it doesn't have to be that way. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!) My first stelling was a bellflower. It sounded like a stelling. I enjoyed it and never messed with the set up at all. I felt like I was missing something. The Gibson bug had bitten me and I had to scratch that itch. I got rid of the bell and got an rb4. I spent a good amount of time with that Gibson. I learned a lot with it and I loved it, but I missed my stelling. I recently got rid of the rb4 and got a staghorn. I've learned a lot more about setup since my bellflower. This time I decided to play around a bit. I'll be darned if I didnt make this thing sound like my gibson. It's got the growl and the bite with that incredible neck and clarity in the higher registers. I think Geoff sets up his banjos how he likes them, and does such a great job that few people mess with it. 

My staghorn is an 03 with a tony pass full thickness rim. I put a Yates bridge on it with the tail having just a hair of upward angle. D'addario lite gauges with the action pretty low. I don't usually do setups like this, but I was going for speed and I'm glad I did!

Anyone else have some out of the norm setups on a stelling? Id love to hear about them:)

beegee - Posted - 03/24/2016:  18:28:03

I never liked Stelling very much until I had the opportunity to set up a new Sunflower. It really amazed me as it had a different sound from my previous experience with Stellings. It was very much "Gibson-esque."

Dan Drabek - Posted - 03/24/2016:  19:22:43

When Geoff Stelling introduced his design, many banjo players were still looking for the brightest, sharpest, loudest banjo they could find. Stelling did that better than most anyone else. But times and tastes change.

It's easier to soften a too-bright banjo than to brighten a dull one. 

DD

TOMCAT - Posted - 03/24/2016:  19:45:13

Brent I know what you mean. My Golden cross had the TP rim in it and I found just loosening up on the set up completly transformed the tone. In loosening I mean I did loosen the head up some, raised the tail piece up a tad. Most hollow dry sounding Stelling I ever heard.

Edited by - TOMCAT on 03/24/2016 19:46:33

910banjo1 - Posted - 03/24/2016:  19:51:24

I have had three Stellings. My first was a new Golden Cross - absolutely gorgeous - 2012 I believe. Didn't really mess with the set-up. It was too bright sounding for me. I then got a Master's Cross (2010) - beautiful banjo with great tone - I sold it though looking for a Gibson. I then got a Bellflower (2008 or 10) and it was a really great sounding banjo, especially after changing to a Sosebee Red maple bridge. The red maple seemed to mellow the tone just a tad - gave it more bass. I really liked the tone of that Bellflower - probably should have kept it. But I sold that one too, again seeking a Mastertone. I may own another Stelling someday - they are fine banjos, and I agree that Stellings don't always sound way different than mastertone-style banjers. There are differnces yes, but set-up can change things.

banjoez - Posted - 03/25/2016:  05:22:34

I like Stelling Banjos. They have a cool factor no other banjo has. Impeccable craftsmanship and intelligent design. They stand apart from the Mastertone crowd. Had quite a few of them. The TP rims changed them into a tamer animal than before and in some ways lost a little bit of the Stelling edge IMO. The last one I had was actually too mellow for me if you can believe it. I never thought my Mastertone/Masterclones would ever outperform one but they did. So I absolutely agree that a modern Stelling can be a much more calmer sounding instrument than in the old days and can be dialed in for a more Gibson-like tone.

Edited by - banjoez on 03/25/2016 05:25:46

PKM - Posted - 03/25/2016:  06:41:35

Hello Brent,
Sorry to hear that you sold your RB-4, mostly because I didn't buy it ! I remember when we talked a while back about 4's and I thought at that time that I'd have the money to get it in a few weeks and that didn't happen.
Your point is a very good one, regarding Stelling sound, and all banjos to a degree. It surprised me when I bought my Hatfield, when I asked Arthur which wood he would recommend for my banjo being ordered. His response was that all of his banjos pretty much sound the same regardless of whether they are maple, walnut, or mahogany.
When I visited him and played a few of his banjos, I found it to be true.

So, when I got my Hatfield home, I decided to set my RB-4 up in the same way. I took a tiny bit off of the rim that gave the tone ring a slip fit as described by Arthur. I brought the head tension to match my Hatfield with the drum dial, put a Hatfield compensating bridge on it, set my co-rods the way Arthur described, adjusted my string height, and put Hatfield, GHS custom strings on it. You guessed it - My RB-4 now sounds like my Hatfield, which I thought was not possible. The only area where you can tell a difference, is that the Gibson is not quite as loud, but close. I attribute that to the Kulesh tone ring, vs. the Hatfield. The Hatfield is louder, but the Gibson has taken on a clarity of tone that it never had from new, ( I'm the original owner ).

My point is, just to reinforce your observations, that on a high quality banjo, with quality components, the over all tone is extremely malleable. I don't think you can take a cheap, low-end banjo and make it sound like a pre-war Gibson, but there is a gigantic range available through set-up with quality material, that is fitted well.
Cheers

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 03/25/2016:  06:59:34

Some years back I played a few licks on a Stelling that Snuffy Smith had set up for Craig Smith. A world of difference from Geoff S.'s standart setup--surprisingly Gibson-like.

Edited by - Ira Gitlin on 03/25/2016 06:59:46

mojack163 - Posted - 03/25/2016:  07:06:20

Hhhmmm......

So set-up the ol Stelling to sound "Gibsony"........??

frrypaul - Posted - 03/25/2016:  07:12:42

  Banjos are a lot like Muscle Cars....they all go fast and are loud but I like Chevelles others like Vettes. I have gone through all the banjos back when; Fenders were the "Flavor of the month"; then came the Baldwins then the OME's and the Stellings; I've settled on the old Gibsons!

aardbark - Posted - 03/25/2016:  07:42:00

Personally, I prefer the Stelling sound to Gibson.  I played a Bellflower for 25 years, then decided to try a Gibson R4 Retro.  Within a few months, I traded the Gibson for another Bellflower.  I think all Gibsons should be set up to sound like Stellings.  You pretty much know what sound you're going to get with a Stelling.  With a Gibson, you never know.  They've been built by so many people, using so many different makers' parts, I question if there really is a true "Gibson" sound at all. 

kmwaters - Posted - 03/25/2016:  08:30:06

Dizzo - I "invested" in a mint Masters Cross gold - not because I wanted gold, or Stelling in particular. I wanted a good banjo with a walnut neck. I had a Gibson ESS maple, and a Deering Tenbrooks Legacy mahogany. And I just thought a walnut would give me three different sounds from three different woods - and I was right. However, it is most interesting how much difference can be made from strings and bridges. I love all 3. Since Geoff compensates by notching the nut accordingly, I obviously use a straight bridge. But on the other 2 the compensated bridges from Steve Davis are my preference. Steve is really good at working with you on any spacing or wood preferences too. Yes, all in all I would have to say Geoff could be THE master craftsman these days. Or certainly in the top 5. Not sure you could ever crown one as the absolute best.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 03/25/2016:  09:17:06

IMO there is no greater craftsmanship or quality control than on Stellings. That being said, I had a 80's Bellflower for over 20 years and before the end of each play session, the tone always left me wanting more. . I used roasted bridges, davis bridges, Snuffy smith, hatfield's, grover and  others. I used 3 or 4 different heads. i used different gage strings. I was never satisfied with how it sounded. to me it had no soul. I called Geoff and he said he could put in a tony pass rim but that would cost something like $600 if memory serves correctly. I was worried that if i put in the $600 and did not get the sound i wanted that I would be in the same spot only $500 poorer. So I played around with different banjos. I looked at builidng a parts banjo with some old parts.  I found what I wanted in a Hatfield. the sound was richer and fuller, not as metalic. So I sold my stelling for $2k and got the Hatfield  for @ $2,600 and am happy every single minute I play it. Many people I talk to say that Stelling has a distinctive and unique sound and that people  either love it or are not grabbed by it.

But, i have to reiterate that Geoff is first class all the way and again the workmanship and the consistency on Stellings is wonderlful.

Ken

John Stout - Posted - 03/25/2016:  12:06:05

I've got a very loose remo head on mine right now. The banjo gives the hollow dry sound that is the craze right now. The Stelling is resposive to any setup I care to use on it. I also have an old Gold Star and Deering and I always wind up with the Stelling. I've also owned four Mastertones over the years. I read an article on Jim Mills from 1997. Back then he tightened his head to a Bb. I've seen all the banjo whims come and go. Just pick what think sounds best.

dizzo - Posted - 03/25/2016:  14:26:44

And now I'm thinking about the next banjo to add to the stable. It's funny... I think it may be another stelling!

gottasmilealot - Posted - 07/20/2016:  05:32:55

It's all about the setup. It seems like some are afraid of changing the setup and therefore don't realize the potential of what they have.

Helix - Posted - 07/20/2016:  05:54:16

First of all, I've started another thread about Tony Pass rims, very interested in opinions.



Last Year, I got to see and work on the 1976 Bell Flower that played the song in Smokey and the Bandit. It's a Maple rim with Walnut inserts where the ledge is, like a tube and plate, two conical surfaces come together in the middle and hold the cast flange, by doing this, the rim stays the full dimension instead of trimming the rim like Gibsons, the neck now mounts like an open back, brilliant.



A banjo that can be set up and have variables that please many different styles is bordering on a really good banjo, whether walnut or maple voice. Quality is not in question here.



Attack, Sustain and Decay are the three main variables on a scale from wet to dry, from bluegrass to old time, and all stops in between.



To me, it's not just set up



It's the banjo, the player, the set up, all working at once.

 

Edited by - Helix on 07/20/2016 05:55:28

Banjophobic - Posted - 07/20/2016:  07:43:24

You guys do know that Geoff would hate to hear that his banjos "sound like a Gibson", right..😳😜 . Even though they can be "tamed" with set up , to my ears they always retain some of that Stelling type of vibe. The wedge fit tonering is most likely the culprit I believe. Folks have used bridges, thicker heads like fiberskyn,loose head tension and other set up tweaks and that will mellow them out. But to me trying to make it "sound like a Gibson" is kind of a weird goal. It's akin to trying to make an archtop sound like a flathead and vice verse. 

Most of the customers who bring me Stelling wanting them to sound like  mastertone usually get the "well, go get a Gibson" reply,haha. One customer actually wanted me to fit a Staghorn neck to his RB3 pot assembly..sacrilege..😂. They are great instruments and capable of a wider range of sounds than most people think. Dans reply summed up pretty well why they had the 70s sound that was in vogue in those days. But hey banjos are made for tinkering and it's part of the fun of the thing.

I have a Masters Cross in the shop now and the customer complaining it's too "bright" and "harsh". Let the fun begin...🤓

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 07/20/2016:  07:51:59

Listen/watch our resident member Martika Lake's videos playing her Stelling...hu uhhhhh? (very interesting story behind it)

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 07/20/2016:  08:23:24

Now if I could sound like this Stelling sounds here, I would die and go to heaven.

youtube.com/watch?v=kXCd_DC7FCQ

ken

bhrb75 - Posted - 07/20/2016:  11:46:08

Ken,


It's like Sonny told me once..."It's all in the hands my boy."

pearcemusic - Posted - 07/20/2016:  17:49:04

Yeah I have a red fox with pass rim and a Tuttle mastertone clone. When I set them up the way I like them, they sound totally different. But ... The straight up "Stelling sound" isn't what I'm going for ... That red fox always keeps a hint tho no matter what I do. Like John said, I don't want to make Geoff mad 👍🏻👌🏻

TR Dockery - Posted - 07/20/2016:  20:58:24

Anybody know who does Alan Munde's setup on his Stellings?  Are you there, Alan?  What gauge strings do you folks use?  Mine came from a dealer with Heavy strings on it. 

Happy trails,

Randy in Germantown, TN

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 07/20/2016:  21:06:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by TR Dockery

 

Anybody know who does Alan Munde's setup on his Stellings?  Are you there, Alan?  What gauge strings do you folks use?  Mine came from a dealer with Heavy strings on it. 

Happy trails,

Randy in Germantown, TN

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roughly speaking it is high tail piece and soft head.

gorilla - Posted - 07/21/2016:  02:46:42

my 2013 chrome plated stelling staghorn sounds just like a stelling was made to sound .great playing neck ,nice low action ,i  couldn't be happier 

budbennett - Posted - 07/21/2016:  05:38:33

Both of my Stellings came with Stelling Medium-Heavy strings on them and I have only used Stelling Medium-Heavy strings on them ever since (I buy them from Stelling).  I like them a lot.  I think that is the guage Geoff prefers to use.  

(On my other banjos I always use heavy-ish cryo strings from American Made Banjo though, so maybe I just like heavy-ish strings.)

TR Dockery - Posted - 07/21/2016:  08:01:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by budbennett

 

Both of my Stellings came with Stelling Medium-Heavy strings on them and I have only used Stelling Medium-Heavy strings on them ever since (I buy them from Stelling).  I like them a lot.  I think that is the guage Geoff prefers to use.  

(On my other banjos I always use heavy-ish cryo strings from American Made Banjo though, so maybe I just like heavy-ish strings.)

---

Now that you mention it, Bud, mine might have been medium-heavies; I do recall an extra set in the case in a package with a red label.  A little too heavy for me and I went to mediums.

FXHERE - Posted - 07/21/2016:  12:52:19

I had a beautiful Stelling Bellflower that was fully engraved. I loved this banjo and let a friend have it for cheap because he wanted it so bad. I have to find another Stelling because I miss it..I have on hand 51 banjos. Everything from Baldwin to Wildwood. Odes, Fenders, Gibson , Flatirons, RKs, Mullins, Strom, and several others

Cornflake - Posted - 07/21/2016:  13:31:45

MY 2002 Red Fox has the original thick Tony P rim. My 2007 Swallowtail has the thin skirt rim. The Red Fox has a more Gibson-like sound. And speaking of adjusting, don't forget those little screws that hold the strings on the tailpiece. Little turns on these can REALLY change tone.

TR Dockery - Posted - 07/21/2016:  16:28:31

I got confused as to which topic I was posting awhile ago and accidentally posted these comments under Joe Spann's thread on leftover Gibson parts, etc.

I will repost the relevant comments here:

... I sent my '95 Munde Staghorn back to Geoff for conversion to the Pass Rim some years ago.  (I still have the original, too, but it sounds pretty darn good with that Pass in it.)  I later talked to Tony at a SPBGMA and he offered to take my original Pass rim back to his shop and turn it down to the thin wall version which became the standard in Stelling banjos.  I couldn't bring myself to take the chance.  I may have to try a new thin-wall Pass rim in it and see if I like it.  If not, I will just put the original Pass rim back in.  When I sent my banjo to Geoff he was even so kind as to stamp the original serial number for this banjo into the Pass rim, too.  I would hate to lose that by turning the rim down some more.  I guess I could always send it back to Geoff and ask him to stamp it with the original serial number again.  It's just an ink stamp, but Geoff did put it in.

BTW, I later took this banjo to Charlie Cushman for a terrific set up and was surprised to find he used to play a Stelling professionally at one time; he is certainly a Gibson guru, but he knows his way around Stelling set-up, too.

The Gibson Man - Posted - 07/22/2016:  10:13:43

Early this year I had the pleasure of getting my hands on a Stelling Sonflower, the Sonny Osborne model, 3 ply rim gold n copper flashing and I brought it to Charlie Cushman and once he was finished he was very impressed as was I. I made the terrible mistake of selling that banjo as it was one of the best sounding ax's I have had my hands on and I am a Gibson man. It did not have that deep 4th string but the resonance and clarity and tone was just impressive. Needless I will get my hands on another one but talking with CC he told me he played a 3 ply Stelling bellflower and loved it. Damn TT I wish I would have kept that Sonflower.

Ybanjo - Posted - 09/11/2016:  07:12:54

It's kinda funny when you talk to people about that "Stelling sound". Seems that everybody has a different opinion. Just recently I talked with a seasoned banjo player and when he found out I had a Stelling, his response was something like, "yeah, I've heard they are really loud and bright". Not my Staghorn!



I have the Staghorn set up slightly toward the tubby side. It still has punch up the neck, but it really plays those lower minors so smoothly that it melts your heart! I like that sound. I use it for the more smooth sounding songs. With that said, I have to say that I have a converted pre-war Gibson TB-3 that is set up for bluegrass. It is bright, and extremely loud! So, between the two banjos, I have all types of song covered.



My point is (my opinion) that the setup is at least as important to how a banjo sounds than brand or model (within reason). I can make my Staghorn sound close to a Gibson if that's what I want, but I don't want that sound. So I have if toned down a bit and constantly get compliments on that smooth sound. My former banjo teacher, and best friend, gave my Staghorn the name "Country Gentleman" with good reason!

Edited by - Ybanjo on 09/11/2016 07:15:20

Banjo40 - Posted - 09/11/2016:  16:15:40

Originally posted by Kenneth Logsdon

 

Listen/watch our resident member Martika Lake's videos playing her Stelling...hu uhhhhh? (very interesting story behind it)

---

That is the best sounding Stelling that I've ever heard.  I talked with Tony Pass once at IBMA about his Stelling rims.  He said he had cut some Stelling thin skirts to 0.50 inches but Geoff thought they sounded too much like a Gibson and made the decision to make the Stelling thin skirts 0.60 inches.

saltcreek - Posted - 09/11/2016:  20:08:17

I am a huge Stelling fan and love the sound, if i want the Gibson sound I play play my JD Crowe Goldstar but that being said I have a Stelling Crusader set up like all my Stellings with light strings and it does sound more Gibsonish than my other Stellings except it's like a Gibson with a 4 barrel carburetor

sfeatherston3 - Posted - 09/12/2016:  18:34:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cornflake

 

...And speaking of adjusting, don't forget those little screws that hold the strings on the tailpiece. Little turns on these can REALLY change tone.

---

Are you serious or is that a joke? I torque on those things every once in a while just to make sure they're tight, but I can't imagine how they affect the sound. 

SHBosch - Posted - 09/14/2016:  01:03:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by sfeatherston3

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cornflake

 

...And speaking of adjusting, don't forget those little screws that hold the strings on the tailpiece. Little turns on these can REALLY change tone.

Are you serious or is that a joke? I torque on those things every once in a while just to make sure they're tight, but I can't imagine how they affect the sound. 

It is believed that the angle of the bridge can affect tone by exerting more (or less) downward pressure on the strings and head. 

banjoez - Posted - 09/14/2016:  07:06:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by sfeatherston3

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cornflake

 

...And speaking of adjusting, don't forget those little screws that hold the strings on the tailpiece. Little turns on these can REALLY change tone.

---

Are you serious or is that a joke? I torque on those things every once in a while just to make sure they're tight, but I can't imagine how they affect the sound. 

---

I think he means the two outside adjusting screws that double as string pegs which allow the TP to be adjusted left/right/fore and aft. Those can make a big difference. The Stellings I have owned were very sensitive to small setup changes but once dialed in were good banjos.

Ybanjo - Posted - 09/14/2016:  07:25:54

quote:

---

I think he means the two outside adjusting screws that double as string pegs which allow the TP to be adjusted left/right/fore and aft. Those can make a big difference. The Stellings I have owned were very sensitive to small setup changes but once dialed in were good banjos.

---

Geoff told me that setting those two little screws longer would increase the sustain and making them shorter would decrease the sustain.  I've tried adjusting them but I can't tell a lot of difference.  I would be interested in other's results with this adjustment.  Does it really make a difference, and if so, what difference??