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captbanjo - Posted - 03/05/2016: 05:21:54
Nice alternate approach Allan. Soft and sweet tone!
Wayne
Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/08/2016: 09:27:51
quote:
Originally posted by peter somerville
youtube.com/watch?v=3BDBF2Is5O8
Here's my attempt. I'm still not happy with my playing on this one. It's hard!
Peter, you always inspire! I bet you weren’t even warmed up when you went for that, lol, and you made it look and sound so easy. I think I know why you’re not entirely happy with it – what makes it seem “hard” – but before I offer my suggestions I want to focus a bit on your considerable body of work.
Okay, I’m a huge fan of Peter’s, and having been brought up in a musically rich part of the Celtic Diaspora (Australia) he has a vast and mixed repertoire of Irish, Scottish, Australian and original tunes under his fingers. From Melbourne, he sent me a copy of Celtic & Australian Tunes for the 5-String Banjo. He is one of the world’s principal exponents of Irish-and-Celtic-3-finger-style-5-string banjo – that’s too long, so Celtic fingerstyle banjo, and his first Celtic Australian tutor (2011) is a masterpiece, a treasure trove with popular jigs, reels, hornpipes, polkas, and Australian dance tunes. The CD that comes with the collection has Peter demonstrating all the tunes in the same sequence as they appear in the book, with each page number matching the corresponding track on the CD. Peter can play the banjo, and he really feels the tunes.
Peter, I’m going to get around to recording this, possibly tonight or tomorrow. First, forgive me, mate, I have an observation, and we’ve always helped one another: I notice that while you’re now playing trebles on one string, avoiding the open B-string that produces unwanted resonance (partials), you’re still taking on a lot: (a) combining heavy ornamentation (in the form of trebles and triplets), (b) using a heavy amount of swing, and (c) trying to maintain a driving fast tempo. There’s too much going on, and trying to play with so much ornamentation, swing and drive at fast tempo produces tension in one’s picking hand. It’s hard to maintain that level of stress and still play smoothly and evenly, especially when combining fast reels in medleys. (You can do it, but you don’t need to take on so much.)
Okay, I would humbly suggest that you simplify and bring this arrangement back a few steps, starting off the tune by (a) eliminating the hard-to-execute trebles in measures 1, 2, 5 and 6 (and on the repeats), which you can add later (in the moment) as personal variations; (b) lose the “swing” – what some BHO posters term bounce, note-pairing, dotted-eighth-note rhythm, etc. – get rid of it entirely; and last (c) try the tune at a slower 172 bpm, get it solid, then work your way up to 184 bpm – a nice steady tempo for this. (You can always add a bit of swing later.) I wouldn’t try working it up faster than 220 bpm, and around 208 bpm is probably the absolute ceiling for a session-friendly version.
I hope this helps, Peter, and that's mighty playing, as always. I’ll record a version for this thread very soon, but first, I have to walk Mr. Hunter.
All the best ~ Tom 
peter somerville - Posted - 03/08/2016: 12:10:56
thanks so much as ever Tom for all that feedback. I think your suggestions are spot on. I've managed to relax my right hand more than it was but still struggling a bit, so if I drop some of those dam triplets, at least some of the time then I might get to feel the tune is easier and get more on top of it. ditto, I'll try getting rid of all that swing, it's become a habit. So it's off to the shed today!
And hey if written a good new waltz, i'll put it up here some time.
Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/08/2016: 13:55:28
Cool, I look forward to your new waltz.
Peter, I'll send you my own Celtic fingerstyle arrangement (tab) - but it's not helpful to tenor players, so here it is in standard notation for fiddlers, tenor banjo/guitar players, mandolinists, and all instrumentalists.
Please notice where I've changed the melodic contour ever so slightly, using intervallic variation and other subtle ornamentation, also the use of crotchets (quarter notes) to give more accent to the tune. I think it is more relaxed and breathes more this way; it isn't so rat-tat-tat-tat. The chords are just suggestions, and I don't like putting in too many chords. (I don't even like putting in chords, but I do.)
The Maid Behind the Bar (standard notation)
Best ~ Tom
DSmoke - Posted - 03/10/2016: 14:31:31
Well, I finally found time to record me playing this and when listening back, I was not very happy with it, so now I have to find some time to work on cleaning this up, stay tuned, now it will be the Tune of Last Month.
captbanjo - Posted - 03/10/2016: 15:13:00
quote:
Originally posted by DSmoke
Well, I finally found time to record me playing this and when listening back, I was not very happy with it, so now I have to find some time to work on cleaning this up, stay tuned, now it will be the Tune of Last Month.
D, I felt the same way listening to mine. We expect a lot of ourselves and it's hard to deliver sometimes. Also, as Peter pointed out, this is a difficult tune! It is a fast reel that moves across the fretboard up to the high b.
But that is actually why I like this concept; it forces me to record music and listen to the truth instead of what my mind is trying to sell me as OK. The hard part is going to be trying to keep up with so many tunes. I'm already behind one.
Now...back to the fretting board!
Wayne
Feo - Posted - 03/11/2016: 09:07:58
Well , now that there's some Irish banjo talk on the Hangout , I'll have to start my Irish banjo tunes up again ... I get weird stares at a jam out in rural Missouri here if I want to do an Irish tune ...they seem to be more fixated on American radio music ... I'm glad you guys picked some old standards because I am way out of practice on the Irish tunes.... here's my attempt at Maid Behind the Bar ....I tried it at different speeds... at the middle speed , I slapped on a capo to put it up into fiddle range... and yes, I admit that I use a thumb-string banjo too , its more of a challenge trying to sound Irish with a cumbersome thumb-string ... I can play tenor banjo too but that is like picking up a mandolin , too easy , like cheating ... lol I like the ideas you guys have about re-tuning the tenor banjos into different tunings and experimenting , that's more up my alley .
DSmoke - Posted - 03/11/2016: 11:00:12
quote:
Originally posted by Feo
Well , now that there's some Irish banjo talk on the Hangout , I'll have to start my Irish banjo tunes up again ... I get weird stares at a jam out in rural Missouri here if I want to do an Irish tune ...they seem to be more fixated on American radio music ... I'm glad you guys picked some old standards because I am way out of practice on the Irish tunes.... here's my attempt at Maid Behind the Bar ....I tried it at different speeds... at the middle speed , I slapped on a capo to put it up into fiddle range... and yes, I admit that I use a thumb-string banjo too , its more of a challenge trying to sound Irish with a cumbersome thumb-string ... I can play tenor banjo too but that is like picking up a mandolin , too easy , like cheating ... lol I like the ideas you guys have about re-tuning the tenor banjos into different tunings and experimenting , that's more up my alley .
FYI - I don't see a recording
captbanjo - Posted - 03/11/2016: 12:05:47
Jimmy, you submitted the wrong tune: The Sounds of Silence!
Wayne
Feo - Posted - 03/11/2016: 18:39:46
Wow, I wondered why the screen froze up on me before .... guess it didn't take my attachment ... ok , let me try again ...sorry 'bout that
captbanjo - Posted - 03/11/2016: 19:01:37
Very interesting sounding triplets. I think if you pursued it, you could perfect your own unique style that would be able to stand alone or work within the tradition of the Irish session.
Wayne
Feo - Posted - 03/12/2016: 12:46:10
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quote
:
Originally posted by captbanjo
Very interesting sounding triplets. I think if you pursued it, you could perfect your own unique style that would be able to stand alone or work within the tradition of the Irish session.
Wayne
On this tune I am mostly doing left hand finger movements for the triplets ... on slower tunes I am able to use the thumb-pick to get triplets the way a tenor banjo players uses his plectrum ... but I am finding it harder to do it with a thumb-pick , that's for sure... I'll keep working at it ...
I have played at sessions like this but the problems come in when the " leaders " of the session do those key-changing medleys ... that's what really makes it tough for a 5-stringer player or someone playing a diatonic tuned instrument. , the rapid key changings ...
captbanjo - Posted - 03/12/2016: 12:56:28
Jimmy, if you are comfortable with single string style on the five string, you can adapt that quite easily to the tenor banjo. Take a look at a few of my videos on my home page here and that is what I'm doing with my Deering tenor. I also use hammer-ons,, pull offs and slides just like a five string player does. In fact, I am a five string player and I'm simply bringing those techniques to the Irish tenor banjo.
The rule book remains incomplete!
Wayne
Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/12/2016: 18:11:40
In Ireland, people call it "trad" ... as in music. ITM is an internet google. Also, it's not all about Irish music.
Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/12/2016: 18:40:03
quote:
Originally posted by Feo
Wow, I wondered why the screen froze up on me before .... guess it didn't take my attachment ... ok , let me try again ...sorry 'bout that
Brilliant!
Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/12/2016: 19:55:50
quote:
Originally posted by Feo
Wow, I wondered why the screen froze up on me before .... guess it didn't take my attachment ... ok , let me try again ...sorry 'bout that
Wow, "mandolin style" with a tenor banjo ... how cool is that?
Maid Behind the Bar
I love the ornamentation and groove. Tempo is irreciphallous.
Best ~ Tom
Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/13/2016: 12:02:39
Earlier I posted a relatively bare bones version using a simple intervallic variation that I prefer at times, dipping down to an F# instead of going up predictably to that saccharine B-note, found here in the BHO Archives (JPEG-standard notation):
The Maid Behind the Bar (standard notation)
‘The Maid Behind the Bar’ is a perfect example of a trad tune that has many variants with recognizable melodic contours that all belong to a larger tune family. In old trad collections such tunes can go by many different titles and still be virtually indistinguishable from each other, save in a few places where some combination of intervallic, rhythmic or melismatic variations distinguish a particular version of a tune from other versions. (In trad we also find many instances of entirely different tunes sharing the same or nearly the same title, but that’s a different story.)
Peter Somerville’s lovely rendition of this tune (find video above) uses trebling on the A notes in the first two measures, and throughout the A-part. That’s a rhythmic variation, a personal artistic choice, and such decoration does not change the basic melody, though it’s no longer the bare bones melody.
Out of curiosity, I went looking in my old tune collections for other versions of ‘The Maid Behind the Bar’, either variants under the same title or the same basic tune under different titles, and I dug up nearly identical versions under different titles, even in the same collection. For example, in Ryan’s Mammoth Collection I found ‘Judy’s Reel’ (p. 25) and Indy’s Favorite (p. 70).
In O’Neill’s Music of Ireland (“The 1850”) and The Dance Music of Ireland O’Neill’s 1001 I found ‘The Green Mountain’, clearly a variant of ‘The Maid Behind the Bar’, almost the same tune, but with a refreshingly different melodic contour in measures 1, 2, 5 and 6.
A less well-thought-of place to go digging is Mile’s Krassen’s, O’Neill’s Music of Ireland (Oak Publications), a regional-fiddle-style re-working of “The 1850” O’Neill’s collection, which has a version of ‘The Green Mountain’ with Sligo-style fiddle ornamentation superimposed on the pre-existing tune and ornamentation. The oft-criticized Krassen, who also pioneered a lovely fiddle tutor, A Trip to Sligo, with Tony DeMarco – New York City’s reigning Sligo-style fiddle master – over-engineered the tune settings, gravely altering the intrinsic, and in some cases, local and regional character of the tunes. He turned nearly all the pre-existing settings into Sligo-style fiddle settings, which are difficult or next to impossible for many a beginner. Many of the O’Neill’s tunes that he altered to bring in his preferred Sligo-style ornamentation didn’t originally come from Sligo, or from the fiddle. In fairness, Miles wanted to breathe new life into the tunes and put them in the celebrated Sligo style, based on such fiddle masters as Michael Coleman, James Morrison, John Vesey, and Paddy Killoran. Some of the tunes, of course, work great, especially if they’re old Sligo tunes!
Getting back to ‘The Maid Behind the Bar’, Krassen’s over-ornamented version of ‘The Green Mountain’ is not just in the same tune family as the former, it’s also closely related to ‘Judy’s Reel’, ‘Indy’s Favorite’, and, more distantly, the ‘New York Reel’ – it’s all pretty much the same tune, just branched out across time and in different places.
Shetland fiddler Aly Bain has a Scottish version with interesting variations in Aly Bain: 50 Fiddle Solos; hear it on this video at around 10:57. And check out ‘The Scholar’ just after it (12:14).
I’ve noticed that not all versions of ‘The Maid Behind the Bar’ are in D major; for example, Matt Cranitch has a lovely C-major variant in The Irish Fiddle Book: The Art of Traditional Fiddle Playing, with a very different but still recognizable melodic contour.
A further removed variant of ‘The Maid Behind the Bar’, but clearly part of the same tune family, is the Stockton’s Wing version of ‘The Maids of Castlebar’ (a must listen).
Okay, there are many more examples of closely or more distantly related tunes in this large tune family; please see The Fiddler’s Companion MAID BEHIND THE BAR [1], THE (An Gearrchaile taobh thiar den Bheár)
So, I’ve been messing about with this tune, trying out variations from older settings under different titles. (It’s all the same tune at the end of the day.) I like to work from lots of settings and recorded versions so that I don’t have to play any single one of them. (I’ll try to make a recording with some of my favorite variations soon, either before or after we go on holiday – I’m up to my eyeballs at the moment.) I’m also coupling the tune with other reels, not the usual ‘Joe Cooley’s’, which, coincidentally, I played with David Knight, James Wyckham and another box player a week ago at Cryan’s session in Carrick-on-Shannon, Co. Leitrim. (For some players, it’s an “avoid” at sessions, same as for ‘Miss McLeod’s’ or ‘The Bucks’ or ‘Banish Misfortune’, etc.)
Thank you everybody, and especially Peter! This thread has been a great help to me, and it’s gotten me focused on going back for tunes, even some originals, combining them in sets, so that I can get started on my long overdue trad recording. Living in Longford, in the center of Ireland, I’m surrounded by great local and regional players in all directions.
Yesterday I put together what I think is an interesting three-reel set using ‘The Maid Behind the Bar’, but I’ll save that for the CD; it’s time to take stock of oneself, and not spend so much time on line. So, I won’t be posting as often here … so many tunes, so little time….
All the best ~ Tom
peter somerville - Posted - 03/17/2016: 03:43:48
nice version of the scholar there Tom by Aly Bain. must work that one up.
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