banjoez - Posted - 05/28/2015:  12:58:43

Here are six popular flathead banjos from all different price ranges that I recently tested. I recorded them all using the same equipment and technique. Every effort was made to capture the best sound from each with the main limitation being my picking. How would you rank them tone wise and which one best exemplifies the traditional flathead sound?  I will reveal them after this thread has run it's course. Have fun!

Reveal Update: Here are the banjos tested and the resulting votes. Thanks to all who participated. 

Banjo1 - 2014 Recording King RK35 (1 Vote)

Banjo2 - 2012 Stelling Golden Cross (7 Votes) WINNER

Banjo3 - 2015 Recording King RK76 Elite (4 Votes) 3rd Place

Banjo4 - 2013 Hatfield Buckcreek (0 Votes)

Banjo5 - 1997 Gibson Earl Scruggs (5 Votes) 2nd Place

Banjo6 - 2012 Yates Ron Stewart (2 Votes)

Here is a playlist where they will appear in random order:

banjohangout.org/myhangout/med...stID=3948

Edited by - banjoez on 07/07/2015 08:53:02

Svenn - Posted - 05/28/2015:  13:12:05

2 5 3 1 4

RioStat - Posted - 05/28/2015:  13:40:21

3 4 6 2 1 5

3 and 4 sound dry, hollow, "pre-war"ish

Edited by - RioStat on 05/28/2015 13:42:31

TOMCAT - Posted - 05/28/2015:  13:44:43

5 4 2 1 3 6 I didn't really go by what I thought was prewar. Just the order of what sounded best to my ear

Edited by - TOMCAT on 05/28/2015 13:47:10

pastorharry - Posted - 05/28/2015:  13:47:56

all very close, to me the ones with the fatter, rounder sound scored higher,541263. I'd be happy with any of them.

Edited by - pastorharry on 05/28/2015 13:50:55

swamplunker - Posted - 05/28/2015:  13:59:25

I'm a little close to Tomcat and Harry. I say 5 6 4 3 1 2. None of them sounded bad, though, probably a credit to your playing.

xnavyguy - Posted - 05/28/2015:  15:39:36

Hard test.  My order of preference is 1 5 4 2 3 6.  Number 1 seemed to have the most focus & clarity.  Might have helped things if we could hear how they sound when played up the neck.

Big Doug - Posted - 05/28/2015:  16:20:27

Very interesting contest. I don't know anything about prewar. The voting is very interesting revealing and entertaining.
To pick my favorite is like splitting hairs or rolling dice,, but my vote at this very moment is 2-6-4-5-1-3
I would sure like to know what the market value is of each of these banjos.

rickhayes - Posted - 05/28/2015:  17:04:57

They all sounded pretty much the same to me.  Maybe it's my ears. 

banjo bill-e - Posted - 05/28/2015:  17:25:44

I did not read any replies before judging, so do not know if what is what has been revealed yet. It's REALLY hard to judge between six! You tend to forget the tone of the previous ones when you listen to a new sample. But I did not care for four or six as much as the other, brighter sounding banjos and seemed to prefer 2 the most with 1,3, and 5 as close second place finishers.

Banjo Lefty - Posted - 05/28/2015:  18:14:57

Not a lick of difference between any of 'em. Could have been the exact same recording played six times. Good, though.

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/28/2015:  18:57:04

Har, har.... gimmee six and you can keep the rest..

warpdrive - Posted - 05/28/2015:  18:57:19

ok ! first off, good job on playing consistently on all 6 cuts! secondly! i like the set-up of cut 5 the best, but my first inclination is this is the same banjo on all 6 cuts, just set-up a little different each time, different bridges, or head tightness, tail piece height, but sounds like the same banjo?
/

jeffnles1 - Posted - 05/28/2015:  19:02:52

I didn't hear much difference. If I had to order the ones I liked, 5,4,6,3,2,1. 4 and 5 were a dead tie. Could be my speakers or my tin ear. Don't know which if any were pre-war and like Banjo Lefty said they could all have been the same banjo played on different days. All sounded pretty darn good.

xnavyguy - Posted - 05/29/2015:  03:09:06

I listened again, first thing this morning, with fresh ears.  Yesterday, before I listened to the recordings, I had been working on and playing a lot of banjos so, I wasn't sure if my hearing was all that fresh.

This morning, my order of preference is 1 5 2 4 3 6.  Almost identical with yesterday, the only difference is that 2 and 4 are swapped in the order.

Emiel - Posted - 05/29/2015:  03:38:49

Sounding very similar, except for banjo 6, which sounds richer than the rest. That's why I like that one better.

overhere - Posted - 05/29/2015:  04:05:25

the only one that had a big difference(my head) was 3...it was close to what I have the others is a toss up (me) they all sound good and nice pickin' too

banjoez - Posted - 05/29/2015:  04:50:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by warpdrive

ok ! first off, good job on playing consistently on all 6 cuts! secondly! i like the set-up of cut 5 the best, but my first inclination is this is the same banjo on all 6 cuts, just set-up a little different each time, different bridges, or head tightness, tail piece height, but sounds like the same banjo?

/

---

These are most definitely 6 different banjos with similar setups. 

bluegrassboy - Posted - 05/29/2015:  06:01:34

"i'm with you fellers"

warpdrive - Posted - 05/29/2015:  06:49:13

Well that just re-enforces my point about once you've developed a style from years of picking, and you have an attack that is strictly germane to you(that is the tone you pull) you will sound the same on just about every quality banjo! Now to your ears, you may ear differences, but to the listener, like me, the differences are not that remarkable, and hardly worth splitting hairs! I sound no different on a 5000 to original flathead pre-war, than i do on my rk -35, regardless of how well the Banjoz is set-up, my hands always pull the same tone! I believe that is what i hear in banjos playing, very consistent and pleasing!

Edited by - warpdrive on 05/29/2015 06:50:38

steve davis - Posted - 05/29/2015:  07:48:33

Individual variances in set-up have so much to do with it.

The Old Timer - Posted - 05/29/2015:  08:16:48

I also find them VERY similar. All a bit "juicy" to my ear, as if the mike is too close to the banjo.

I preferred #2, a bit bolder but yet a bit drier.

3 and 5 I rated next and tied, as being a "bit" firmer than the remainder, not "quite" as juicy

1, 4 and 6 all sounded the same to me.

Again, differences are very slight and I'm straining to make any ranking at all. I would like to hear them recorded a bit more "distantly".

steve davis - Posted - 05/29/2015:  08:45:12

Could probably tell a lot more by actually playing each one in person.

lightgauge - Posted - 05/29/2015:  08:47:00

I thought the second sample was a wee bit better than the first, but after that, they all sounded the same. Maybe up the neck, more differences, but here they are very much alike to my ear. Listening on an Ipad which is usually more than adequate.

Beardog - Posted - 05/29/2015:  10:48:33

2 and 6 sound best to me, but that could be slight picking differences.

I love original prewar banjos, but not enough to pay 10's of thousands of dollars more for one than any of these banjos!

Good, consistent job on the picking!

TOMCAT - Posted - 05/29/2015:  15:49:22

Ok fess up what are we listening too!?

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/29/2015:  17:56:02

I always did prefer mahogany... hearing the same ring in 3? of them..

banjoez - Posted - 05/30/2015:  04:22:21

quote:

---

Originally posted by TOMCAT

Ok fess up what are we listening too!?

---

I will give it one more day before the reveal so get your votes in !!!

Roll Player - Posted - 05/30/2015:  16:43:35

3 & 6 sounded best to me, the others were hard to tell apart, but a little too twang-y by comparison.

3 finger ninja - Posted - 05/31/2015:  00:50:40

2 was my fav.

Bribak - Posted - 05/31/2015:  02:47:02

They all sound good but two and five sound a little more ratchety to me, which I like. I like to hear a little bit of rattle and looseness - broken glass and ball-bearings!

banjoez - Posted - 05/31/2015:  09:02:29

Results have been listed in the original posting. Interested in comments and observations. Thanks for all your participation!!

Beardog - Posted - 05/31/2015:  10:18:08

I chose the Stelling and the Yates as the two best sounding banjos in your comparo. No surprise to me.

If Stelling banjos had been available to Earl 60 years ago, they would likely be regarded as the best banjos ever made, IMHO!

And, this is coming from a guy who has 6 high end Gibson/Gibson clone banjos at the moment! I need to get another Stelling.

warpdrive - Posted - 05/31/2015:  10:48:44

I really think this says a lot about The " PLAYER" and not the banjo! And i am addressing the pre-war sound club here! You have six different banjos, and the differences are very minuscule , and i whole heartedly believe that had you thrown ANY pre-war flathead in the mix, it would not have been a run-away, best sound, not for one damn minute , not by a mile! This is the kind of test that needs to be done, no way to give bias towards any certain banjo, just listening and judging which one sounds the best by how it's played! No giving hints that it is an old banjo, or owned by a famous picker, no way for listening with yours eyes and wallets, one of the fairest test i've ever seen, and i did vote for #5, but i find it very, very , interesting that the most inexpensive banjo got a vote, and another one 3x's more the cost, didn't get a vote (not knocking that banjo) just says that the one's that voted didn't care for that particular sound! Great Test!

banjoez - Posted - 05/31/2015:  10:58:07

Those that haven't played a modern Stelling might be surprised just how good they can sound. They are a whole different animal than what they used to be.  Deep, rich, clear and powerful with unequaled balance up and down the neck. They have definitely gotten more traditional sounding through the years but still have amazing power. Kind of the best of both worlds IMHO. (And they are still works of art).

Edited by - banjoez on 05/31/2015 11:00:43

banjoez - Posted - 05/31/2015:  11:04:11

Kevin, great observations. I must say that the RK35 in person is right up there with # 1 and #2. I don't think my recording did it justice to be honest. For those that can live without all the bells and whistles it is an incredible bargain. It's a big boy banjo in every sense and I am happy to play it side by side with any other banjo out there.

Edited by - banjoez on 05/31/2015 11:08:28

warpdrive - Posted - 05/31/2015:  11:12:52

Joe you did a fantastic job, and that is the Joe Z sound! As i have been trying to get across to some of the (it's the banjo, and not the picker crowd) you will sound like you, and no matter what banjo you play, your ears and hands adjust to that instrument, it can't be helped, so you most always will get the same results, the player is the common denominator! And as i posted on another thread just last week, i played the best sounding Stelling and one of the best sounding banjos period last week! What a great era we live in now that there are so many great sounding banjo's!

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/31/2015:  18:09:00

Funny how the thin sound seemed to be preferred.... That's ok.... as before just go ahead and send me No. six and keep the rest..

3 finger ninja - Posted - 05/31/2015:  18:23:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenneth Logsdon

Funny how the thin sound seemed to be preferred.... That's ok.... as before just go ahead and send me No. six and keep the rest..

---

I had a hard time choosing between 2 and 6...I ended up with 2...I dont think it sounds thin at all....just different. #6 does have a nice fat tone though.. Im really really surprised the Hatfield got no votes!

Edited by - 3 finger ninja on 05/31/2015 18:24:33

TOMCAT - Posted - 05/31/2015:  18:43:45

Interesting indeed. I voted the ES as my most liked😁 I'm channeling dude I'm channeling!

vincekinney - Posted - 05/31/2015:  18:44:18

Nice job Joe Z !!!

TOMCAT - Posted - 05/31/2015:  19:04:34

Those Golden Crosses are bad puppies! But I bet anything had the makes had been known everyone's voting would have been different.

Edited by - TOMCAT on 05/31/2015 19:06:22

swamplunker - Posted - 05/31/2015:  19:05:43

TOMCAT - Posted - 05/31/2015:  19:41:55

Joe in respect to how well the rks done in this test, after receiving my rk30 I was talking with Greg about how perfectly the next to pot fit is, and told me( and I'm sure he doesn't mind me quoting him on this) "that the quality of the work coming out of the Chinese factory now is as good in every way as what they were turning out at Gibson in his time there. " And believe me as a huge Gibson fan that's hard to even repeat! Ha

xnavyguy - Posted - 05/31/2015:  19:47:38

I find it interesting that my good buddy Art (Roll Player) and me are about 180 degrees out in our preference of these banjos.  Art has been my main source of understanding of what it takes for a banjo to be able to perform in a jam or performance situation where a banjo needs to be heard amongst a bunch of other instruments.  To me, the RK-36 & the Scruggs recordings are the most clear and focused, a characteristic that is vital, if hearing the banjo is important.  The other 4 banjos might be a little "warmer" in their presentation but, IMHO could very well be lost if they had to hold their own against a wall of Martin Guitars & other, more focused, bluegrass instruments.  I still believe the Scruggs & the RK-36 are the best of the bunch.

The others, to me, have a little too much energy wasted with, again, excessive sustain.

banjoez - Posted - 05/31/2015:  20:48:13

All good comments. To those that felt some of the banjos were too twangy or had too much wasted sustain I submit a couple sound bites of what I consider to be a couple of the greatest sounding old flatheads ever. The Rev Odell and Ole Betsy.  Now, to my ear part of their magic is the substantial sustain along with the depth and overriding clarity on top of everything else that is going on (rattle, sizzle, however you want to describe it). These banjos have a dry sustain.  I also include another Stelling sound bite as a modern banjo with lots of sustain for comparison.

Edited by - banjoez on 05/31/2015 21:03:01

Odell RB75 05-22

No Mother or Dad - Stelling

banjoez - Posted - 05/31/2015:  21:09:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by TOMCAT

Those Golden Crosses are bad puppies! But I bet anything had the makes had been known everyone's voting would have been different.

---

No doubt. That's what blind tests are for.

Edited by - banjoez on 05/31/2015 21:10:58

warpdrive - Posted - 06/01/2015:  03:22:56

I have played in other genre's of music, off and on, since i was a teen, country, and now blues/rock and of course bluegrass! I showed some the argument threads about the sound of banjos, old,vs new, inexpensive vs the top of the line, and of course, "pre-war" to some of my "young" rock/blues guys i'm jamming and playing with now a days, and they always observe the fact that Bluegrass musicians are to caught up in showing that they have the best instrument, instead of just playing and making music! I thought this to be a very interesting observation!

figmo59 - Posted - 06/01/2015:  04:11:47

If..$..were no object..


It might be fun..ta do tha whole test ovah..

Usein tha,same models..but differnt banjos...

Banjo ta banjo evin in tha,same model..can be differnt..