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 Playing Advice: Clawhammer and Old-Time Styles
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: TOTW 4/17/15 "Jake Gillie"


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/302499

trapdoor2 - Posted - 04/17/2015:  05:55:43


Hi Gang,



Well, it has been quite a while since I did a TOTW, might as well dive on in again!



While researching tunes for this week, I was reading the list of previous TOTW submissions and I was struck by the fact that the very first CH tune I ever attempted to play wasn’t on the list. That’s all I needed to make my decision for me…



I guess we should start with the Fiddler’s Companion entry:



JAKE GILLY/GILLIE. AKA and see "Old Jake Gilly," "Granny, Will Your Dog Bite? [1]" Old‑Time, Breakdown. USA; West Virginia, southwestern Virginia. D Major/Mixolydian. Standard tuning. AABBCCBB. The tune appears from Patrick, Franklin and Floyd Counties in southwestern Virginia, north into West Virginia. Recorded by Kanawha County fiddler Clark Kessinger in the late 1920's. One of Kessinger’s parts appears related to the second strain of the Arkansas “Searcy County Rag,” recorded in 1929 by Ashley’s Melody Men. Floyd County, Va., fiddler Sam McNeil recorded it in 1930 with the Floyd County Ramblers (it was issued inexplicably under the title "Granny Will Your Dog Bite"). Blanton Owen and Tom Carter (1978) say that many older fiddlers from the region suspected the tune "The Eighth of January" was fashioned from this tune, although for some the resemblance is difficult to discern. "Old Jake Gilly" is a related melody. Source for notated version: Sam McNeil (Va.) [Phillips]. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), vol. 1, 1994; pg. 121. Rounder 0057, Sam McNeil (Floyd County, Va.) ‑ "Old Originals, vol. 1" (1978).



I learned it out of Miles Krassen’s seminal book, “Clawhammer Banjo”, pub. 1974. My copy was purchased in the mid 1980’s…and I still work out of it, ragged and torn though it may be. It is presented there in “Double D” tuning, that is, aDADE and it is the first tune in the book.



Krassen’s notes for this tune say that the tune is basically a variation on the “8th of January”. I’m not so sure of the connection…though I can hear a little of “8th” in there. His version is based on Oscar Wright’s playing (which can be heard on youtube here: youtu.be/IAvFb5jTObM ). He also mentions that the Kessinger Brothers’ 1928-29 recording “…fiddled a somewhat different tune of the same name.” I hear the same tune…but played as a country rag. Same tune but syncopated! This may be my favorite variation.



Here’s the Floyd County Ramblers playing it: youtu.be/j6-kGb8BTGg?list=PLCF...4B174D155 I love this version too. Just a subtle variation.



See banjohangout.org/myhangout/mus...?id=45862 for Bob Lanham’s recording of the Krassen book tunes…including “Old Jack Gillie” (the only place I’ve seen “Jack” instead of “Jake” is in the Krassen book).



There are a couple of other youtube versions out there and I’m sure that there are many BHO members who have recorded themselves giving it a go.



I hope you enjoy!


Zischkale - Posted - 04/17/2015:  06:33:17


I'm now reading this entire post in the voice of Rocky.



Great choice, I knew the title sounded familiar--wasn't my first tune to learn by far, but that Oscar version was on one of the first old-time CDs I bought. I enjoy listening to the difference between his and the Floyd County rendition, it sounds like he really simplified that B-part for the 'jo -- I wonder if he ever played the tune with a fiddler (don't know much about Oscar). 



Thanks for sharing!


trapdoor2 - Posted - 04/17/2015:  07:17:11


Figures...today I found a nice clip (incomplete, the album is still available) from the Kessinger Brothers' version: document-records.com/mp3/DOCD-...19186.mp3


vrteach - Posted - 04/17/2015:  07:32:49


Hokey Smoke! I particularly like the Floyd County Ramblers version, I can imagine playing that for a dance. I don't hear much of 8th of January in it.


blanham - Posted - 04/17/2015:  15:53:33


I can't find a sample (it's now on Field Recorder's Collective), but the recording of "Jake Gillie" by Norm Edmonds is a great string band version.


RG - Posted - 04/17/2015:  15:59:12


Great TOTW!



 


Snowbird - Posted - 04/17/2015:  16:16:27


I like Dwight Diller's version



youtube.com/watch?v=gDyfc1KQD1Y


banjered - Posted - 04/17/2015:  21:13:57


youtube.com/watch?v=gDyfc1KQD1Y


BobTheGambler - Posted - 04/18/2015:  06:22:14


Tranced-out, two fiddle version by the amazing Jon Bekoff and Nate Paine:



 



 



blanham - Posted - 04/18/2015:  06:46:32


Here's my experiment this morning with a different approach.



 




VIDEO: Jake Gillie (2-Finger Style)
(click to view)

   

mbuk06 - Posted - 04/18/2015:  13:06:28


Great TOTW choice. One of my favourite Oscar Wright tunes.



Here's my attempt that's been sitting gathering dust on my Hangout music page for a while. Kind've a coincidence too that I played this tune at the local farmer's market this morning. 



Edited by - mbuk06 on 04/18/2015 13:10:22



Jake Gillie

   

JanetB - Posted - 04/18/2015:  16:44:09


Indeed a great tune, Marc, with a lot of great recordings already posted.  The Krassen book for me was a learning milestone, but for some reason I didn't work a lot on this tune.  Instead, I've listened now to the Kessinger Brothers version with its smooth fiddling and swinging beat.




Old Jake Gillie

   

CamC - Posted - 04/18/2015:  19:41:22


Here's my attempt at Oscar Wright's arrangement.




VIDEO: Jake Gillie
(click to view)

   

llrevis - Posted - 04/19/2015:  10:57:24


Great rendition Janet. I have been relearning the tune from a Dwight Diller tab. I like your more complex version better. Any chance of sharing a tab with us? 



Larry


carlb - Posted - 04/19/2015:  14:04:32


quote:

Originally posted by vrteach

Hokey Smoke! I particularly like the Floyd County Ramblers version, I can imagine playing that for a dance. I don't hear much of 8th of January in it.




Me too! I relearned the tune a number of years ago after a friend requested it for an upcoming jam. I learned from Sam McNeil's recording on the Old Originals, volume one (Rounder 0057) and later found the same version by the Floyd County Ramblers on Old Time String Band Classis (County 531) listed as Granny Will You Dog BiteGilly - the recording company erroneously supplied the title given here." These recordings are noted in the posting



Edited by - carlb on 04/19/2015 14:18:25

JanetB - Posted - 04/19/2015:  14:08:50


Here's tab for the arrangement based on Clark Kessinger's fiddling.  The B part variation in the tab (the high part) is about the same as the A part of Oscar Wright's.




Old Jake Gillie tab

   

carlb - Posted - 04/19/2015:  14:15:55


A bunch of recordings under the listing Old Jake Gillie:



Old Jake Gillie [Me IV-E 17]



Rm -






  1. Diller, Dwight. Harvest. W. VA. Mountain Music, Yew Pine Mtn YP IX3, CD (1997), trk# 12 [1996] ()

  2. Edmonds, Norman;, Charles Hawks and John Edmonds. Galax Gems - The Music of Galax in the 1960s, Field Recorder FRC 309, CD (2008), trk# 24 [1960s] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)

  3. Floyd County Ramblers. Old Time String Band Classics, County 531, LP (1975/), trk# B.06 [1930/08/29] (Granny Will Your Dog Bite #1)

  4. Kessinger Brothers. Kessinger Brothers - 1928-30, County 536, LP (1974), trk# 7 [1929/02/18]

  5. Kessinger, Clark. Sweet Bunch of Daisies, County 747, LP (197?/1966), trk# 1

  6. Krassen, Miles. Krassen, Miles / Clawhammer Banjo, Oak, sof (1974), p18

  7. McNeil, Sam. Old Originals, Vol. 1, Rounder 0057, LP (1978), trk# 1 [1974/07/22] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)

  8. Slaughter, Matokie. Old Time Herald, Old Time Herald, Ser, 3/4, p42(1992) [1970s] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)

  9. Wright, Oscar. Clawhammer Banjo. Vol 2 [More Clawhammer Banjo], County 717/2717, CD/ (2003/1969), trk# 1 [1967-68ca] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)



Thanks to ibiblio.org/folkindex/


flailing - Posted - 04/19/2015:  14:34:07


I learned this one from Miles Krassens' book.  Thought I would post my effort here -may be a bit loud as I have not figured out this recording software yet.  Played on my Rickard spunover dobson.



 




Jake Gillie

   

llrevis - Posted - 04/19/2015:  16:08:27


Thanks for the tab.


gailg64 - Posted - 04/20/2015:  06:24:02


Descendents of Sam McNeill still live in & around Flloyd County. It's a great tune & I love them all, but especially Floyd Co. Ramblers, Matokie Slaughter (who often flatted one of the notes in the low part) and the Roanoke jug Band with 3 banjos.


You can hear some of Sam McNeill's wonderfully skilled old style (flatchord/Charlie Poole) 3 finger picking on the Digital Library of Appalachia.


 


quote:


Originally posted by carlb

A bunch of recordings under the listing Old Jake Gillie:




Old Jake Gillie [Me IV-E 17]




Rm -








  1. Diller, Dwight. Harvest. W. VA. Mountain Music, Yew Pine Mtn YP IX3, CD (1997), trk# 12 [1996] ()

  2. Edmonds, Norman;, Charles Hawks and John Edmonds. Galax Gems - The Music of Galax in the 1960s, Field Recorder FRC 309, CD (2008), trk# 24 [1960s] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)

  3. Floyd County Ramblers. Old Time String Band Classics, County 531, LP (1975/), trk# B.06 [1930/08/29] (Granny Will Your Dog Bite #1)

  4. Kessinger Brothers. Kessinger Brothers - 1928-30, County 536, LP (1974), trk# 7 [1929/02/18]

  5. Kessinger, Clark. Sweet Bunch of Daisies, County 747, LP (197?/1966), trk# 1

  6. Krassen, Miles. Krassen, Miles / Clawhammer Banjo, Oak, sof (1974), p18

  7. McNeil, Sam. Old Originals, Vol. 1, Rounder 0057, LP (1978), trk# 1 [1974/07/22] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)

  8. Slaughter, Matokie. Old Time Herald, Old Time Herald, Ser, 3/4, p42(1992) [1970s] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)

  9. Wright, Oscar. Clawhammer Banjo. Vol 2 [More Clawhammer Banjo], County 717/2717, CD/ (2003/1969), trk# 1 [1967-68ca] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)




Thanks to ibiblio.org/folkindex/







 


gailg64 - Posted - 04/20/2015:  06:28:51


Correction, I was mistaken about the Roanoke Jug Band playing Jake Gillie--they may have played it but the recording I'm thinking of that they did was another classic Virginia stringband D tune, John(ny) Lover.


quote:


Originally posted by gailg64

Descendents of Sam McNeill still live in & around Flloyd County. It's a great tune & I love them all, but especially Floyd Co. Ramblers, Matokie Slaughter (who often flatted one of the notes in the low part) and the Roanoke jug Band with 3 banjos.



You can hear some of Sam McNeill's wonderfully skilled old style (flatchord/Charlie Poole) 3 finger picking on the Digital Library of Appalachia.



 



quote:


Originally posted by carlb

A bunch of recordings under the listing Old Jake Gillie:




Old Jake Gillie [Me IV-E 17]




Rm -








  1. Diller, Dwight. Harvest. W. VA. Mountain Music, Yew Pine Mtn YP IX3, CD (1997), trk# 12 [1996] ()

  2. Edmonds, Norman;, Charles Hawks and John Edmonds. Galax Gems - The Music of Galax in the 1960s, Field Recorder FRC 309, CD (2008), trk# 24 [1960s] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)

  3. Floyd County Ramblers. Old Time String Band Classics, County 531, LP (1975/), trk# B.06 [1930/08/29] (Granny Will Your Dog Bite #1)

  4. Kessinger Brothers. Kessinger Brothers - 1928-30, County 536, LP (1974), trk# 7 [1929/02/18]

  5. Kessinger, Clark. Sweet Bunch of Daisies, County 747, LP (197?/1966), trk# 1

  6. Krassen, Miles. Krassen, Miles / Clawhammer Banjo, Oak, sof (1974), p18

  7. McNeil, Sam. Old Originals, Vol. 1, Rounder 0057, LP (1978), trk# 1 [1974/07/22] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)

  8. Slaughter, Matokie. Old Time Herald, Old Time Herald, Ser, 3/4, p42(1992) [1970s] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)

  9. Wright, Oscar. Clawhammer Banjo. Vol 2 [More Clawhammer Banjo], County 717/2717, CD/ (2003/1969), trk# 1 [1967-68ca] (Jake Gillie/Gilley)




Thanks to ibiblio.org/folkindex/








 







 


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