Cacofonix - Posted - 02/21/2015:  08:37:45

Hi everybody

Beside learning the banjo and the repertoire, I'd like to learn about Old Time Music genre and its history. Can anybody point me to some material that might help?

Many thanks 

oldpaintdoc - Posted - 02/21/2015:  09:14:26

Ya!

Me also.

Would enjoy reading anything about banjo and old time music and players.

banjo bill-e - Posted - 02/21/2015:  09:32:03

Go to the Tune of the Week archives and read every post and follow every link. Tons of great tunes, usually with background history on each one. If you listen as well as read then you will have a great education in Old Time Music.

Edited by - banjo bill-e on 02/21/2015 09:32:30

Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 02/21/2015:  09:42:55

One good place to start is the Digital Library of Appalachia aca-dla.org/

Browse the Library and Collections etc.

Another source I like is Smithsonian Folkways Records. folkways.si.edu/folkways-recor...ithsonian You can download ".pdf"s of many of their liner notes. I refer to those of the various New Lost City Ramblers often. Here's the link to volume one of their recordings media.smithsonianfolkways.org/...02396.pdf You can read the liner notes and the text of the songs.

I'm a big fan of the NLCR, so I recommend the New Lost City Ramblers Songbook. Also "Music from the True Vine", by Bill Malone, "Mike Seeger's Life and Musical Journey"..

Art Rosenbaum's instructional books also contain a lot of background material. "Old Time Mountain Banjo" by Art Rosenbaum and "Art Rosenbaum's Old Time Banjo Book"

Most Instructional and "Tab" books include valuable background material.

Mutha

westsideryan - Posted - 02/21/2015:  10:55:01

Check out The Old-Time Herald!: oldtimeherald.org/

munchausen - Posted - 02/21/2015:  17:37:58

'Exploring American Folk Music: Ethnic, Grassroots, and Regional Traditions in the United States' by Kip Lornell.  I used an earlier edition of this book when teaching a course on American Roots Music.    It is a textbook that covers a great deal of topics, with suggested listening and viewing.  The older edition included a CD, but I'm not sure about this one.   Check out the link below, and browse through the table of contents.

amazon.com/Exploring-American-...p+lornell

You may also want to explore some books by Bill Malone (the same as suggested by Mutha), such as 'Singing Cowboys and Musical Mountaineers: Southern Culture and the Roots of Country Music.'  He examines the various cultural influences found in American roots, or folk music.  amazon.com/Singing-Cowboys-Mus...mp;sr=1-4 

'High Lonesome - The Story of Bluegrass Music' contains a good bit of Old Time history in relation to the roots of Bluegrass music.amazon.com/High-Lonesome-Story...+lonesome

'Southern Exposure: The Story of Southern Music in Pictures and Words.'  Mostly photos of southern musicians from the late 19th century and early 20th century.  Banjos, guitars, mandolins, etc.  Lots of good stuff!  amazon.com/Southern-Exposure-S...ob+carlin

Finally, try getting your hands on any songbooks by Alan Lomax, such as 'The Folk Songs of North America' or 'American Ballads and Folk Songs .'  They contain melodies and lyrics to songs as well as cultural/historical background and anecdotes.

Edited by - munchausen on 02/21/2015 17:44:49

Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 02/21/2015:  18:33:57

Bill C.Malone was first noted for "Country Music U.S.A".

(from Amazon) "the definitive history of American country music. Starting with the music's folk roots in the rural South, it traces country music from the early days of radio through the first decade of the twenty-first century."

He has a facebook page, facebook.com/pages/Bill-C-Malone

Mutha

UncleClawhammer - Posted - 02/21/2015:  19:12:27

Read the liner notes to every New Lost City Rambler's album. Basically everything Pluckin Mutha said.

The best primer is Mike Seeger's essay, What is Old-Time Music?

Edited by - UncleClawhammer on 02/21/2015 19:18:24

plunkyjunkie - Posted - 02/21/2015:  20:13:20

This is a pretty entertaining read. 531 pages no less... 

repository.library.brown.edu/s...dr:11260/

Edited by - plunkyjunkie on 02/21/2015 20:14:52

Round Peak Music History

Paul R - Posted - 02/21/2015:  22:25:36

Ken Perlman has collected a lot of his columns from the Banjo Newsletter into his book, Everything You Wanted to Know about Clawhammer Banjo. There are some interesting articles on banjo music history.

Winged Words - Posted - 02/21/2015:  22:33:03

Caconofix
Did you watch Reginald D Hunter's Songs of the South on BBC2 last night? Maybe not specific to your question, but it points up the need for your question. Certainly rubbed in the fact that I know and understand nothing about America and its music.

Has it been shown in the USA? Any thoughts from you on the other side of the water?

deVisee - Posted - 02/21/2015:  23:20:47

quote:

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Originally posted by Winged Words

Caconofix

Did you watch Reginald D Hunter's Songs of the South on BBC2 last night? Maybe not specific to your question, but it points up the need for your question. Certainly rubbed in the fact that I know and understand nothing about America and its music.



Has it been shown in the USA? Any thoughts from you on the other side of the water?

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It's available on the BBC's iPlayer, that you can access from outside the UK using the Get iPlayer Automator. Great show.

AndrewD - Posted - 02/22/2015:  00:03:55

quote:

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Originally posted by deVisee

quote:

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Originally posted by Winged Words

Caconofix

Did you watch Reginald D Hunter's Songs of the South on BBC2 last night? Maybe not specific to your question, but it points up the need for your question. Certainly rubbed in the fact that I know and understand nothing about America and its music.



Has it been shown in the USA? Any thoughts from you on the other side of the water?

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It's available on the BBC's iPlayer, that you can access from outside the UK using the Get iPlayer Automator. Great show.

 

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Great show ? I was sorely disappointed . Hunter is one of my favourite comics and I had been looking forward to this. But it was unfocussed, poorly researched, shallow to the point of inaccuracy and was more about Hunter's ambiguous relationship to his Southern roots than about music..  I could have been out playing my banjo. What a waste of a Saturday night.

AndrewD - Posted - 02/22/2015:  00:17:45

Off topic question. deVisee (above) mentions "iPlayer Automator" to see BBC iPlayer outside the UK. Looks like this is Mac only. Anybody got (good) experience of a Windows equivalent ? I'm off to the states for work in a couple of weeks and, whatever I said about "Songs of the South" above I don't want to miss it :-)

Cacofonix - Posted - 02/22/2015:  01:17:37

Thank you everyone for your replies & suggestions. There's a lot here so I shouldn't run out of material.

I did watch Songs of the South. It was interesting but  not as informative as I would have wished. I guess old time music fans are a minority in the UK and the kind of detail we might have liked might not be so important to others.   

Kind regards

Eric

Winged Words - Posted - 02/22/2015:  04:17:34

Agree with your points Andrew, though perhaps a little fierce? I thought it was a pleasant enough typical BBC ramble with a friendly companion.

My main reaction as I said above was to realise how remote I feel from the roots of the music I've enjoyed trying to play on the banjo over the past few years, but really know very little about, and to wonder how far it's possible for a middleclass Englishman to get "into" oldtime music at all. To get beyond just playing the notes. Certainly, to get back on topic, the resources that have been suggested to Eric look a good place to start.

Meanwhile I'll play on happily, well aware of my limitations!

Edited by - Winged Words on 02/22/2015 04:19:05

carlb - Posted - 02/22/2015:  06:00:31

African Banjo Echoes in Appalachia: A Study of Folk Tracitions by Cecelia Conway

Fiddling Way Out Yonder: The Life and Music of Melvin Wine  by Drew Beisswenger

Mountains of Music: West virginia Traditional Music from Goldenseal edite4d by John Lilly

Music in the Air Somewhere: The Shifting Boorders of West Virginia's Fiddle and Song Traditions by Erynn Marshall

Play of a Fiddle: Traditional Music, Dance and Folklore in West Virginia by Gerald Milnes

Also, check out some DVDs from Augusta Heritage: augustaheritagecenter.org/store/

If you need further details (like publisher, date, etc) about any of the books above, contact me.

 

mbuk06 - Posted - 02/22/2015:  06:48:27

Eric and Geoff, there is no need to feel isolated or alone musically here in the UK. Friends of American Old Time Music and Dance (FOAOTMAD) exists to foster and develop the OT community here. Annual membership is £20 and in addition to putting you in contact with other OT musicians it will assist in many other ways including access to resources and recordings. Membership also includes a free quarterly magazine with a diverse range of OT articles and reviews.

foaotmad.org.uk/

The website is freely open to non-members though membership does provide access to a members area with much additional information.

FOAOTMAD also has a facebook page that you also do not need to be a member to use. This has the added advantage of interactivity and very up-to-the minute info on gigs and other events:

facebook.com/groups/foaotmad/

Edited by - mbuk06 on 02/22/2015 06:49:46

deVisee - Posted - 02/22/2015:  09:08:05

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewD

Off topic question. deVisee (above) mentions "iPlayer Automator" to see BBC iPlayer outside the UK. Looks like this is Mac only. Anybody got (good) experience of a Windows equivalent ? I'm off to the states for work in a couple of weeks and, whatever I said about "Songs of the South" above I don't want to miss it :-)

 

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I have Get iPlayer on my Mac and it works like a charm (well, most of the time), but if you google it, there appear to be versions for Linux and Windows as well.

BlowingRockNC - Posted - 02/22/2015:  10:02:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cacofonix

Hi everybody

 

Beside learning the banjo and the repertoire, I'd like to learn about Old Time Music genre and its history. Can anybody point me to some material that might help?

 

Many thanks 

---

I haven't read all the responses, so someone might have said this already. When I learn a new OT song, I usually Google the song to see when it was written and who wrote it, plus how many dozens of versions there are of the song. It's really interesting all the information you can learn by doing this.

carlb - Posted - 02/23/2015:  06:36:38

Another book:

Country Music Originals: The Legends and the Lost by Tony Russell

jack_beuthin - Posted - 02/23/2015:  09:29:04

quote:

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Originally posted by Winged Words



My main reaction as I said above was to realise how remote I feel from the roots of the music I've enjoyed trying to play on the banjo over the past few years, but really know very little about, and to wonder how far it's possible for a middleclass Englishman to get "into" oldtime music at all. 

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I would submit that if the music stirs you--if a modal tunes haunts you, or a reel makes you want to stomp your feet, or a ballad takes your cares away--then you are close to the roots.  Keep that alive, and the rest will follow.  I spent better than twenty years living in the Piedmont-Southern Appalachians, but my root connection to OT music emerged when I was a disaffected teenager growing up in rural Wisconsin.  In a way, loneliness and alienation often seem to be part of the calling of OT music. 

sgdesertrat1 - Posted - 02/23/2015:  12:26:31

I really enjoyed reading "The Beautiful Music All Around Us" by Stephen Wade. It will teach you a lot about the lives of people who recorded some of the important early field recordings.

Winged Words - Posted - 02/23/2015:  12:36:24

Jack - that's quite a helpful way of looking at it. Thanks.

Cacofonix - Posted - 02/23/2015:  13:07:06

quote:

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Originally posted by jack_beuthin

quote:

I would submit that if the music stirs you--if a modal tunes haunts you, or a reel makes you want to stomp your feet, or a ballad takes your cares away--then you are close to the roots.  Keep that alive, and the rest will follow.  I spent better than twenty years living in the Piedmont-Southern Appalachians, but my root connection to OT music emerged when I was a disaffected teenager growing up in rural Wisconsin.  In a way, loneliness and alienation often seem to be part of the calling of OT music. 

I like this a lot, thank you Jack.

Winged Words - Posted - 02/23/2015:  13:24:10

And in answer to Cacofonix's original question:

Craig Frailin Evans' DVDs. I'm always dipping into the old ones and I'm really looking forward to the next.

mdthib - Posted - 02/23/2015:  17:39:03

Thomas Turino's book Music as Social Life: The Politics of Participation should be one you consider. Basically, Turino is an ethnomusicologist who spent much of his career studying music in Zimbabwe, the Peruvian Andes, and American music like zydeco and old time. 

The book covers Turino's four-field theory of music, with old time an example of participatory music. One chapter is on old time music, but if you read the book you'd likely come to understand how old time fits into a much larger framework for the many different kinds of music. What the book did for me was help me to understand how participatory musical structures (like shorter forms and tunes that can be played flexibly to fit the moment) promote participatory values (like group cohesion and togetherness) which promote a different conception of music (one oriented toward the social side of music as something one does).

So, this book puts old time into a larger context, and deals with more academic issues than some might want. It also covers music in Nazi Germany and in the civil rights movement, as well as in the other cultures previously mentioned. On the one hand, it is probably overly academic for many, but on the other hand Turino is able to get at very good discussions of some of the perennial debates on this site, such as how to think about authenticity in a productive way.

cj81846 - Posted - 02/23/2015:  18:26:23

>Beside learning the banjo and the repertoire, I'd like to learn about Old Time Music genre and its history. Can anybody point me to some material that might help?

My Old-Time music page has an article called "What Is Old-Time Music?".  It's an overview with lots of links to other sources.  In particular it contains a short section on how Old-Time music is alive and growing today.  Here's the link

    cjcom.net/OldTimeMusic.htm

I hope it will be interesting and helpful.

Clayton

Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 02/24/2015:  08:06:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by cj81846

>Beside learning the banjo and the repertoire, I'd like to learn about Old Time Music genre and its history. Can anybody point me to some material that might help?

My Old-Time music page has an article called "What Is Old-Time Music?".  It's an overview with lots of links to other sources.  In particular it contains a short section on how Old-Time music is alive and growing today.  Here's the link

    cjcom.net/OldTimeMusic.htm

I hope it will be interesting and helpful.

 

Clayton

 

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Clickable Linkhttp://cjcom.net/OldTimeMusic.htm

Mutha

cj81846 - Posted - 02/24/2015:  08:21:16

quote:

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Originally posted by Pluckin Mutha

Clickable Linkhttp://cjcom.net/OldTimeMusic.htm

Mutha

Thank you!  After I posted the msg I saw it wasn't linkable but didn't know how to change it.  Now I see there is a Link button.  Next time I'll do it right.

 

Clayton

Roy D Durrence - Posted - 03/08/2015:  21:32:12

Here are the links to my Old Time Music Site, and my Old Time Music G+ community. On these sites you will several articles on the history of Old Time, as well as links to other Old Time music sites.



Preservation and Promotion of Old Time Music: saveoldtimemusic.blogspot.com/



Collaboration For Preservation Of Old Time Music plus.google.com/u/0/communitie...228882401

Edited by - Roy D Durrence on 03/08/2015 21:37:41

Roy D Durrence - Posted - 03/08/2015:  21:36:53

quote:

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Originally posted by Roy D Durrence

Here are the links to my Old Time Music Site, and my Old Time Music G+ community. On these sites you will several articles on the history of Old Time, as well as links to other Old Time music sites.



Preservation and Promotion of Old Time Music: saveoldtimemusic.blogspot.com/



Collaboration For Preservation Of Old Time Music ; plus.google.com/u/0/communitie...228882401

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Roy D Durrence - Posted - 03/08/2015:  22:30:17

Mike Seeger was one of the most respected revivalists of Old Time Music before his death. Here is the link to his site which is still active. You will find that his definition was pretty much the same as mine in the articles I gave you links to in my last reply, but given his highly respected place in the genre before his passing I would recommend you check out his site.

mikeseeger.info/   Mike Seeger: What Is Old Time Country Music ?

banjopogo - Posted - 03/08/2015:  23:07:58

I think it's good to be aware that Old Time music, like other ethnic folk music genres, isn't a single monolithic genre, but has regional sub-styles. This is true of Irish, Scottish, and Swedish traditional music, and is true of Old Time in the US (there is also Canadian Old Time).

I recommend listening to players from a particular region in depth, keeping in mind that you might have several sub-styles in a single state, and that the music close to state borders would likely resemble the music on the other side of the border, if the geography doesn't isolate the two sides, like a mountain ridge would.  One of the best known sub-genres is Round Peak, but there are others that might have a particular appeal because of your taste, location, or family connections.

Aside from Round Peak, another style that I became aware of was due to the set "Echoes of the Ozarks" back in the 1970's- it was a collection of 78's by Ozark fiddlers and string bands, and they all had a remarkably distinctive feel.  The tunes tended to get played more slowly, in an easygoing, dignified way, and the tunes were often melodically fairly simple.  But not far away, there are other styles in Missouri that are much more complex.

Another approach would be to focus on one or two musicians from a particular region, and learn what makes their style "tick".

Roy D Durrence - Posted - 03/09/2015:  00:05:13

Michael Springer...very good points, and lets not forget the huge influence of the African-American music, as well as the fact that they brought us the banjo.

You would be surprised at the number of people who have attended my lectures over the years who were utterly surprised by both of these facts.

Edited by - Roy D Durrence on 03/09/2015 00:16:10

pastorharry - Posted - 03/09/2015:  00:20:05

Wayne Erbsen has written several great little books on the history of the music complete with songs and profiles of the different musicians. Several years ago I bought one of his books entitled "RURAL ROOTS of BLUEGRASS songs, stories & history. Although the title says "BLUEGRASS" it is really a history of the pre-bluegrass days. I bought the book at Capo's music store in Abingdon, VA, great store, great book.

Cacofonix - Posted - 03/09/2015:  10:25:59

Hello all

Thank you so much for your input. I've got lots of material here to work through.

Eric, a grateful UK newcomer to OT