shuber - Posted - 11/04/2014:  12:44:30

Hey Folks,

I'm proud to introduce another new addition to the Huber family today, the "Classic 58" model.  This banjo is built using our TRUETONE pot assembly with the HR-30 tone ring and the Engineered Rim. We've re-created the classic feel of the "Bowtie" banjo using a mahogany neck and resonator, gloss nitro-cellulose lacquer finish with a "blackburst" and cream-colored tulip tuner buttons. Small details like the font in the neck block and the redesigned art-deco Huber peghead logo complete the look of our newest banjo. The banjo has a list price of $5,495.

Steve Huber

Luvmoochine - Posted - 11/04/2014:  13:13:15

Very cool

jlsorbit - Posted - 11/04/2014:  13:33:00

It's beautiful.

markbyrum - Posted - 11/04/2014:  13:40:28

Nice banjo. I'm confident the quality is far superior than new RB-250's in 1958! The stylized Huber peg head logo is perfectly appropriate and uber-cool.

Forrest - Posted - 11/04/2014:  13:45:06

This banjo is the first one that i have lusted after in a very long time.  !

Nicholas Glardon - Posted - 11/04/2014:  13:45:47

Now there"s one made !!!!!!!  Don't know about that name how bout "RIDING SHOTGUN" ?? MAN I WANT ONE keep up your USA CRAFTS MAN SHIP work THX Nick

Tim13 - Posted - 11/04/2014:  15:31:40

Very handsome looking banjo.  The last thing the banjo world needs is another Granada clone, so taking this track was a good idea.  This may be the first commercial copy of the Gibson bowtie.  I don't recall anyone else going down this road.  I love the tuner buttons as well.  Overall, nicely done.

Tim

bulldog bob - Posted - 11/04/2014:  16:04:20

Yates??

jmoliver - Posted - 11/04/2014:  16:58:34

Looks almost identical to my Yates Skillethead.

Edited by - jmoliver on 11/04/2014 16:59:25

RB4picker - Posted - 11/04/2014:  19:19:31

Sound files PLEASE!!!!!

David

Bradskey - Posted - 11/05/2014:  08:19:57

Love it!

fivestringcooper - Posted - 11/05/2014:  08:25:56

Looks Awesome!!!!!

prewartb3 - Posted - 11/05/2014:  10:48:58

Wouldn't that be the ultimate show having Ronnie & Steve each on stage sharing the same mike with their own skillethead trading breaks. WOW!!!!!!  Both are great pickers and could get the most out of each banjo. I'd pay for that show

The Old Timer - Posted - 11/05/2014:  13:46:51

Well my my!!! It's a good thing that truss rod cover doesn't violate any intellectual property rights!!! Well done!

Bradskey - Posted - 11/06/2014:  10:22:36

Well honestly I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I notice this is a closer copy style-wise than the Yates, and I believe I'd heard before that Gibson still owned some kind of trade dress around the bowtie and flyswatter styling.  Maybe there's nothing to that, I don't know.  I really love what you've done here though, can imagine this one will be quite popular.  If I didn't own a good vintage bowtie already... they're not that hard to find but you do have to wait for one in acceptable condition and price to float by sometimes.

Some old bowties have some nice fret work where the ends join nicely into the neck binding, did you do anything similar?  Looks like you didn't do the period-typical tailpiece (or armrest I'm guessing), but I don't blame you.  Everybody would just swap them out anyway,  assuming you could even find them, and the old firebird tuners would probably just be difficult-to-impossible and not universally appreciated.  Overlay also looks silvery/MOP instead of gold colored, possibly to differentiate along with the TRC?    Hope you sell a bunch.

slammer - Posted - 11/06/2014:  15:23:01

I can't stop lookin at it!!!   Simple........yet elegant!!!        Old school............yet modern!!!         Pricey..............yet Pricey!!!    Hold me back somebody!!!

Slammer!!!

Majorbanjo - Posted - 11/07/2014:  13:11:25

Love it, especially the aged look of the binding, and the tulip tuner used on the 5th string.......needs the big tuning machines...... 

Edited by - Majorbanjo on 11/07/2014 13:17:29

SamM - Posted - 11/07/2014:  16:47:03

I think it looks like a Yates Skillethead, even the lettering on the peghead. I recently bought a "woody" from Clancy Mullins that pretty much looks the same. I am sure its a very nice banjo.

Bradskey - Posted - 11/07/2014:  17:47:40

banjophiles.com/Bowtie.html

Edited by - Bradskey on 11/07/2014 17:48:00

the-fish - Posted - 11/08/2014:  04:14:29

Hum

Beardog - Posted - 11/08/2014:  08:45:23

Sweet. Love me some bowtie replicas! Good job!

kaybone - Posted - 11/10/2014:  21:48:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by jmoliver

Looks almost identical to my Yates Skillethead.

---

Yeah ditto on that John, 'crept mine is a lefty and there's that Huber no lefty thing.

Dewdrop - Posted - 11/11/2014:  07:06:17

quote: When were the archtop rings produced by Gibson in the Bowtie models?

---

Originally posted by Majorbanjo

Love it, especially the aged look of the binding, and the tulip tuner used on the 5th string.......needs the big tuning machines...... 

 

---

Dewdrop - Posted - 11/11/2014:  07:10:13

I have a RB-250 from the bowtie era and it came with a flat head tone ring. Most of the RB-250 from that bowtie era were arch top tonerings. Does anybody have any years or production numbers as to when the arch tops were made by Gibson?

casinojack - Posted - 11/11/2014:  11:50:56

Sound files PLEASE !!!

Jack

Bradskey - Posted - 11/11/2014:  14:01:03

Gibson shipments from the bowtie era:

banjophiles.com/Post-warShippingtotals.htm

Unfortunately not really possible to break down by ring type.  But RB-250 bowtie early years (54 thru maybe 60) were dominated by archtops.  Later years (58-69) moved to more flathead production.  There may only be a few hundred of these from the "good" years (thru 64?) that are in anything like original condition.

RKArtisan - Posted - 11/17/2014:  18:17:49

I'm with Bradskey, doesn't Gibson own the guitar shaped peghead done on the bowties? I'm just curious? Not that it matters to me one way or the other since I have an original, but like I said, just curious.

Mick

TIMTIMTIM - Posted - 11/18/2014:  16:10:09

if Gibson wanted to go after Huber they could on copyright infringement with the Peghead shape and Peghead inlay exact copys. Yates did it much better with with the Skillet Head peghead and inlay . its a little different, but still looks great. for a Bowtie copy you cant beat the Skillet Head. I would just pay the $2000-3500 and get an original Gibson Bow tie and save about $2000-3000 bucks.

Edited by - TIMTIMTIM on 11/18/2014 16:12:26

RB100 - Posted - 11/18/2014:  16:21:09

I feel quite sure Steve is experienced and knowledgeable enough to have done his 'due diligence' before releasing this model. I would love to own one...knowing the Huber quality and reputation for excellence. 

Alex Z - Posted - 11/18/2014:  21:24:06

"Well honestly I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I notice this is a closer copy style-wise than the Yates, and I believe I'd heard before that Gibson still owned some kind of trade dress around the bowtie and flyswatter styling.  Maybe there's nothing to that, I don't know. "

"I'm with Bradskey"

"if Gibson wanted to go after Huber they could on copyright infringement with the Peghead shape and Peghead inlay exact copys. "

On the BHO, repetition can turn idle speculation or unsupported assertion into perceived fact.    We have to be careful.

The potential question here is "trade dress," not "copyright."  So for openers it is not a true statement that "If Gibson wanted to go after Huber they could on copyright infringement . . . "

Further, the law and decisions on "trade dress" focus on elements of "confusion" and "deception."  But with the name "Huber" on the headstock, there is a ways to go to prove confusion or deception.  Would a buyer claim, "I bought it because I thought it was a Gibson" ?

Trade dress is an interesting question, and OK to raise.   Back when we were having discussions about copyright law, there were a lot of posters who had not read the copyright statutes, and just giving their $0.02 on what they assumed was the copyright law, and what they thought ought to be fair, without knowledge of the law itself or of court decisions applying that law to specific situations.

Trade dress, similarly, can be complex, and speculating on what the statutes say and what ought to be fair -- versus inquiring on what the statutes actually say and how the statutes have been interpreted in actual cases  --- ain't going to get to an answer.

Hope this helps.  No doubt there are lawyers on the BHO expert in trade dress, who might shed some light.

Edited by - Alex Z on 11/18/2014 21:32:54

RB100 - Posted - 11/19/2014:  04:05:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB100

My point, exactly, Alex! By the way, TIMTIMTIM, I notice a lot of posts in your one and one half year here (as on your page) (or is that 6/8/04 as on your posts?) on the BHO, but your page doesn't have a name or location. Your credentials and identity would lend you a bit more credence to me. I notice you also recommend another banjo on a Huber work horse thread as you have done on this thread about the Huber Classic 58. Perhaps you might want to let us know who you are if you want to have credibility -- until then, I'm afraid Alex nailed it with "unsupported assertion into perceived fact." And by the way, I do like both Yates and Sullivan banjos in addition to Hubers, Hatfields, (and many others) and don't let me forget Gibsons! 

On the BHO, repetition can turn idle speculation or unsupported assertion into perceived fact.    We have to be careful.

---

Forrest - Posted - 11/19/2014:  08:03:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB100

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB100

My point, exactly, Alex! By the way, TIMTIMTIM, I notice a lot of posts in your one and one half year here (as on your page) (or is that 6/8/04 as on your posts?) on the BHO, but your page doesn't have a name or location. Your credentials and identity would lend you a bit more credence to me. I notice you also recommend another banjo on a Huber work horse thread as you have done on this thread about the Huber Classic 58. Perhaps you might want to let us know who you are if you want to have credibility -- until then, I'm afraid Alex nailed it with "unsupported assertion into perceived fact." And by the way, I do like both Yates and Sullivan banjos in addition to Hubers, Hatfields, (and many others) and don't let me forget Gibsons! 

On the BHO, repetition can turn idle speculation or unsupported assertion into perceived fact.    We have to be careful.

---

 

---

No offense to TIMTIMTIM, but his pattern in the recent Huber threads shows a strong negative bias.  

Example:

banjohangout.org/topic/294398

My thought is to ignore anonymous posters when their behavior shows a decided lack of perspective.  They're entitled to an opinion, but it doesn't mean it carries any weight.

TIMTIMTIM - Posted - 11/19/2014:  17:36:09

Well Forrest I own a wonderful Huber Lexington, so don't project your negative perception on my post. A poster asked a question about the Workhorse model and I gave an honest hands on opinion from playing a Mahogany model serial #002. that's all I did, so don't give me this "prove yourself to us before you post" I can recommend any Banjo I want, again before I would spend $2500 on a Huber Workhorse model. I would get a used Sullivan Festival or new Recording King Elite or a used Deering Sierra and save at least $1000 and before I would spent $5500 on a late 50's to early 60's RB-250 copy.I would just pay the $2000-3500 and get an original Gibson Bow tie Flathead with a 19 hole tone ring and save about $2000-3000 bucks and a have at least a 50 year old Mastertone.No offense to anyone. These are facts, you don't need to "carry weight" for facts




.

RB100 - Posted - 11/20/2014:  04:50:23

TIMTIMTIM -- I will accept as fact that you MAY own a Huber Lexington, that you MAY have played a Huber workhorse, and that there are less expensive banjos than the Classic 58. Everything beyond that in your post is conjecture or personal preference which to me is close to/same as opinion -- strongly held opinions that you seem to be presenting as fact. I have good friends who are excellent pickers who have played these banjos and there opinions (also strongly held) are quite different to what you are presenting here. If you are going to present your strongly held opinions on the hangout, it is fair game for other non-anonymous members here to ask what your credentials are to be presenting such -- especially as it has been pointed out here that strongly held opinions stated over and over may lead to misleading and not truly representative perceptions. Sorry, long as you are anonymous, what your opinions are --  even though you seem to regard them as facts -- are just that and again, fair game for questioning, the same as my or other non-anonymous posts. 

Edited by - RB100 on 11/20/2014 04:55:14

RB100 - Posted - 11/20/2014:  05:24:17

To get this thread back on topic -- and hopefully in a bit more positive tone -- I must admit that I am a sucker for the old bowties of the 50s and 60s -- probably nostalgia on my part. I think Steve and Warren are both to be commended for providing instruments that harken to this niche. I say niche because I don't see bowtie designs replacing the time honored designs of the 20s and 30s as to demand though it is certainly possible I suppose. In my quest for a bowtie for my collection, it has been MY experience that those on the market are somewhat hit or miss as to the quality I look for in a banjo and owners of those I really liked were either unwilling to sell or the asking price was too steep (in comparison to other vintage banjo possibilities). I think those prices will only continue to appreciate as the really fine instruments age. As a result, I think Steve's production of the Classic 58 will strike a chord (pun intended) with many of us and give us another strong option (along with the Skillethead) to 'scratch the itch' of those days of yore.  (as always, YMMV)

banjoez - Posted - 11/20/2014:  06:54:53

As with anything else, markets become saturated with the same thing (i.e. Prewar Mastertone Clones) and something different has to come along to generate interest. It would be tough to be a builder of premium banjos today to come up with something new and marketable with all the low priced foreign competition and depressed used market.

TIMTIMTIM - Posted - 11/20/2014:  14:27:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjoez

As with anything else, markets become saturated with the same thing (i.e. Prewar Mastertone Clones) and something different has to come along to generate interest. It would be tough to be a builder of premium banjos today to come up with something new and marketable with all the low priced foreign competition and depressed used market.

---

Thank you this post says it all. Case closed.

Old Hickory - Posted - 11/20/2014:  16:57:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex Z

On the BHO, repetition can turn idle speculation or unsupported assertion into perceived fact.    ... Back when we were having discussions about copyright law, there were a lot of posters who had not read the copyright statutes, and just giving their $0.02 on what they assumed was the copyright law, and what they thought ought to be fair, without knowledge of the law itself or of court decisions applying that law to specific situations. ... Trade dress, similarly, can be complex . . .

---

Great post.

My recollection from looking up the actual cases is that Gibson eventually lost its trade dress case against PRS.  And  they reached a settlement with Saga when they sued them over all kinds of guitar design issues just a few years ago. I read the filings in that one. If I recall correctly, they were claiming trademark (not dress) status of peghead shapes and truss rod covers among other things.  I think the settlement was kept secret, so who knows who got what.

Scott Zimmerman has posted here a couple times that Gibson owns no intellectual property rights in its banjo designs, in particular inlays.  That would explain all the flying eagle, hearts and flowers, wreath, bella voce and seagull inlays and double-cut and fiddle-shape headstocks that everyone uses at no risk.  Not to mention Gibson-style flanges and the whole Mastertone pot.  I believe Gibson once had patents on some of that, but they ran out decades ago.

The non-lawyer in me says: Even if they do own the peghead shape, they're out of the banjo business, so what do they care.

Off-topic.  Sorry.

Back on target:  I, too, have played a Huber banjo and thought it was great. Would be proud to own one.  But if I were to buy one, I'd definitely spend thousands less and get another model. Maybe even the Workhorse.  And if I wanted a flyswatter headed bowtie inlaid banjo, I'd get a real Gibson, again for thousands less.  Just the opinion to which I'm entitled.

Bradskey - Posted - 11/21/2014:  20:20:19

Kinda sorry I brought up the trade dress thing, was just thinking out loud.  I just think its interesting, assertions about Gibson's rights being made here before, that the complete bowtie style has generally been so avoided in the clone market.  Maybe just because it was perceived as unpopular.  These banjos spent the 70s-90s at least being sneered at.

Anyway, I do like bowties and I think they will have their day just as pre-wars have had, although they are more plentiful and may never be as highly regarded.  But they have already been gaining a new following in recent years I think, and the market is not exactly flooded with clean originals.  At this point the bowtie design itself goes back some 60+ years, and its pedigree is like a cross-pollination of the old RB-3/RB-75 workhorse Mastertones and the art-deco styling of the top-tensions, the RB-7 at least.   If you find an original bowtie then you are getting a real Gibson Mastertone typically at least 50 years old with good old lacquer and potmetal and Brazillian rosewood, etc, made in storied Kalamazoo, yadda yadda.  They're just cool. 

As to saving a couple thousand buying an original over this Huber, while true, except for the extreme purist almost everybody feels the need to upgrade at least SOME parts on even the best of the old bowties.  Huber and Yates make their banjos with the parts players want today, built to tighter and exacting tolerances, precision and quality than the old bowties probably were.  That's probably worth something.  The old banjos can be wonderful instruments, but the ones on the market typically

A) are in very rough shape, condition issues

B) have half their parts swapped

C) are actually a non-Mastertone or non-RB conversion

D) are the less desirable late-60s models with thin black rims

E) the seller thinks they're worth a lot more than they really are. 

F) are or originally were an archtop

If you're patient there are some good bowties coming up for sale with some regularity at decent prices.  There are also some way overpriced that just sit there, as well they should.  If your first thought is that you want a new high quality American made banjo, and your second thought is you'd love a Huber or a Yates, and your third thought is you love the vintage bowtie styling, then these options should be right up your alley.

RB100 - Posted - 11/21/2014:  22:59:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bradskey

Kinda sorry I brought up the trade dress thing, was just thinking out loud.  I just think its interesting, assertions about Gibson's rights being made here before, that the complete bowtie style has generally been so avoided in the clone market.  Maybe just because it was perceived as unpopular.  These banjos spent the 70s-90s at least being sneered at.

Anyway, I do like bowties and I think they will have their day just as pre-wars have had, although they are more plentiful and may never be as highly regarded.  But they have already been gaining a new following in recent years I think, and the market is not exactly flooded with clean originals.  At this point the bowtie design itself goes back some 60+ years, and its pedigree is like a cross-pollination of the old RB-3/RB-75 workhorse Mastertones and the art-deco styling of the top-tensions, the RB-7 at least.   If you find an original bowtie then you are getting a real Gibson Mastertone typically at least 50 years old with good old lacquer and potmetal and Brazillian rosewood, etc, made in storied Kalamazoo, yadda yadda.  They're just cool. 

As to saving a couple thousand buying an original over this Huber, while true, except for the extreme purist almost everybody feels the need to upgrade at least SOME parts on even the best of the old bowties.  Huber and Yates make their banjos with the parts players want today, built to tighter and exacting tolerances, precision and quality than the old bowties probably were.  That's probably worth something.  The old banjos can be wonderful instruments, but the ones on the market typically

A) are in very rough shape, condition issues

B) have half their parts swapped

C) are actually a non-Mastertone or non-RB conversion

D) are the less desirable late-60s models with thin black rims

E) the seller thinks they're worth a lot more than they really are. 

F) are or originally were an archtop

If you're patient there are some good bowties coming up for sale with some regularity at decent prices.  There are also some way overpriced that just sit there, as well they should.  If your first thought is that you want a new high quality American made banjo, and your second thought is you'd love a Huber or a Yates, and your third thought is you love the vintage bowtie styling, then these options should be right up your alley.

---

Good points, Bradsky! A-F pretty much nails what I have found as well...

Mike Casey - Posted - 11/24/2014:  08:51:22

The new Huber "58 Classic" is a great looking banjo and quite faithful to the original look. I'd bet it sounds as good as it looks and probably will make the pruchaser very proud to own and play it. Now if someone just had to have a set of original B and T marked Kluson tuners with the original white tulip buttons and the balky tuning response I know where they can get a set. BTW those tulip buttons came from our Hangout friend Ron Barnes. He does a great job on the look and feel of the tulip buttons he makes.

grich - Posted - 11/24/2014:  16:32:28

This is the best reason I know to stay away from the Dovewing peghead shape

thettablog.blogspot.com/2009/0...-peg.html

WARNING

The use of this peghead shape may cost you more than just a letter 

MarkFive - Posted - 11/25/2014:  12:07:03

Got it in here at Banjo.com. Just got through playing it in a jam we had going on. This is a great banjo!

Edited by - MarkFive on 11/25/2014 12:09:31

TOMCAT - Posted - 11/25/2014:  19:57:32

Price?

banjo5string - Posted - 11/25/2014:  20:18:02

The banjo lists for $5495.

TOMCAT - Posted - 11/25/2014:  23:14:34

😮

BANJO TONY - Posted - 11/26/2014:  02:36:06

may be the price of Gibson's from that era will drop now & we can all go bargain shopping for them & then slip in a Huber tone ring in one of those old Gibson's.  also I think Greg is on to something. if you want one,  buy one before Gibson goes after them.

Edited by - BANJO TONY on 11/26/2014 02:39:54

Goldstarman - Posted - 11/26/2014:  17:33:12

That there is a nice banjer.

Tim13 - Posted - 11/27/2014:  06:20:37

Hahahahahaha.......

Look closely at this video.  See if you notice anything in the background.  Steve has a nice collection of Gibson memorabilia.  LOL.  I'm guessing the Classic 58 peg head is a pretty exact "replica" of the Gibson fly swatter peg head.

youtu.be/Rx-9RD0OYCI

Tim

Edited by - Tim13 on 11/27/2014 06:22:26