hugh153 - Posted - 07/02/2014:  06:47:52

Hi,

I have started building what I hope will be a 19 fret tenor banjo. I have decided to try to cut the fret slots by hand on a cheap rosewood blank I have sourced.

Two reasons really . One - to save money on a pre-slotted blank ,two - just to see if I can successfully do it.

Can anyone suggest how i can mark out the positions of the fret slots and what techniques you use to accurately mark out the positions. I have access to a japanese saw (not sure of how wide the kerf?). I have a rudimentary saw box, but not too sure how useful it will be.

As I have never attempted this before,   any advice( tools, plans, techniques etc.) however simple it may seem to you, will be gratefully received .

Many Thanks,

Hugh

Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 07/02/2014:  07:43:44

I started out using a flush-cut saw from Harbor Freight that cut the correct kerf.  After about 10 banjos and a bunch of mountain dulcimers I upgraded to a Stew-Mac fret saw which has a stiff blade and is much handier than the flexible blade on the old saw.  bluestemstrings.com which is run by Randy Cordle (rudy) has a nice printable fret spacing template with a whole bunch of lengths and you can get many other scale lengths by removing frets from the nut end of those templates.  I mark my fretboard blanks while they are still square and use a plastic speed square(the kind that is a right triangle, not sure what the proper term is) to keep the blade straight.  I clamp the blank to the tabletop with the edge of the blank outside the edge of the table, hold the square in my left hand and the saw in my right (I'm right handed) and saw the slot.  The Stew-Mac saw has a depth stop on it, you could fabricate for your saw if it cuts the right kerf to use for frets.  

Zach

shawnpeter - Posted - 07/02/2014:  07:46:19

To go the cheap route, Harbor Freight sells as .025" thick flush cut saw. Go to stewmac.com, use their calculator to figure spacing, and using a good set of dial calipers measure as you go. However, you can compound any error in your distances pretty bad doing it that way. I like LeVan's method of printing off a template, using some spray adhesive, and then cutting right onto the paper template. I do same thing except I start with a .010" thick blade in a miter box (this one woodcraft.com/Product/2003618/...-Set.aspx) and cut approximately 1/2 of my depth. I then can use my fret saw with the board clamped to a table (no miter box) and I have a groove to bite into. I cut my fretboard blanks just a hair under the width needed to get them into the miter box so they don't wiggle in the miter box.

The cheap route will be regrettable in the end.

rudy - Posted - 07/02/2014:  08:01:41

I have a bunch of related slot layout info at my website, including printable pdfs, a downloadable spreadsheet calculation, and a download link for Wfret if you're using a PC.  Wfret will print out any fret scale template you desire.

bluestemstrings.com/pageBanjoC...html#NECK

Whatever calculation method you use NEVER NEVER NEVER use the calculated fret to fret distances, don't even be tempted to try.  They are shown on many programs, but I have yet to figure out why.  They are used within the program to calculate the fret placements, but they shouldn't even be shown.  It just confuses people.

ALWAYS measure each fret position directly from the nut or zero line as a starting point.

Edited by - rudy on 07/02/2014 08:07:45

shawnpeter - Posted - 07/02/2014:  08:03:58

quote:

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Originally posted by rudy

I have a bunch of related slot layout info at my website, including printable pdfs, a downloadable spreadsheet calculation, and a download link for Wfret if you're using a PC.  Wfret will print out any fret scale template you desire.

bluestemstrings.com/pageBanjoC...html#NECK

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Ohhhh, that's you?? I've browsed your site about a million times. Muchas gracias! 

rudy - Posted - 07/02/2014:  08:08:53

quote:

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Originally posted by shawnpeter

quote:

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Originally posted by rudy

I have a bunch of related slot layout info at my website, including printable pdfs, a downloadable spreadsheet calculation, and a download link for Wfret if you're using a PC.  Wfret will print out any fret scale template you desire.

bluestemstrings.com/pageBanjoC...html#NECK

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Ohhhh, that's you?? I've browsed your site about a million times. Muchas gracias! 

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Yup, that's me.  You're quite welcome.

swamplunker - Posted - 07/02/2014:  13:04:05

Shawnpeter, that Olsen box is amazingly cheap. Thirty years ago , I adapted a regular hardware-store miter box which required narrowing the saw slots by gluing on additional wood , making a depth stop, and, using a pliers to narrow the teeth gap in the saw, and the one thing you'll still probably have to do, jam something against the edge of the fingerboard to keep it firmly against one side of the miter box. (Saw got awful hard to push, but results were great). And save the fingerboard profiling for last!

hugh153 - Posted - 07/02/2014:  13:38:44

Hi,

Thank you for the responses so far.I have tried to download the printable versions suggested by Rudy from his website and the wfret website but due to a lack of computer skills, I cant open zip files or get the functions to work. A pity as they are exactly what I need .

Edited by - hugh153 on 07/02/2014 13:42:16

Fathand - Posted - 07/02/2014:  15:11:21

Hmm , I bought a fret board blank for $6.00 from LMI and then paid them $9.00 to slot it. It was one of their cheaper wood choices. Are you sure you want to attempt slotting it yourself for that price?  If only doing one or 2 banjos it is cheaper to buy them than to invest in the tools.

The correct width saw is important, usually .023" and the saws are usually around $30-$40. You can build your own mitre box but average store bought mitre boxes are not very accurate.  Stew Mac has a fretboard calculator that will give you the measurement for whatever size board you want. Lots of info on youtube.

shawnpeter - Posted - 07/02/2014:  18:17:34

stewmac.com/FretCalculator

​^ just an FYI, however, if you haven't spent any time looking at Rudy's site then stop what you are doing and start there. Read, read, read. This is coming from a guy who has wasted a small fortune thus far on building banjos. Better to learn from everyone else's mistakes than to reinvent the wheel. 

shawnpeter - Posted - 07/02/2014:  18:29:48

quote:

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Originally posted by swamplunker

Shawnpeter, that Olsen box is amazingly cheap. Thirty years ago , I adapted a regular hardware-store miter box which required narrowing the saw slots by gluing on additional wood , making a depth stop, and, using a pliers to narrow the teeth gap in the saw, and the one thing you'll still probably have to do, jam something against the edge of the fingerboard to keep it firmly against one side of the miter box. (Saw got awful hard to push, but results were great). And save the fingerboard profiling for last!

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Yeah I was doing something similar before, and I'm glad I found the Olsen unit. If I had to do it all over again, I probably would have just gone with a .023" slitting saw blade for my table saw. For now, the method I have works well for me. I can do all the slots in pretty good time and end up with excellent results (about 10-15 minutes if I'm taking my time).

Hugh153, if you aren't too far into it, now would be a good time to consider a preslotted fretboard. Much cheaper of a route, and you'll get a good quality fretboard. Otherwise, be prepared to cut to deep a few times, way to shallow another time, and expect at least one crooked slot. My stewmac saw can cut through a peice of rosewood, 1/8" in about 15-20 full strokes. 

Shawn Hoover - Posted - 07/02/2014:  20:57:38

quote:

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Originally posted by shawnpeter

Hugh153, if you aren't too far into it, now would be a good time to consider a preslotted fretboard. Much cheaper of a route, and you'll get a good quality fretboard. Otherwise, be prepared to cut to deep a few times, way to shallow another time, and expect at least one crooked slot. My stewmac saw can cut through a peice of rosewood, 1/8" in about 15-20 full strokes. 

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That sounds much more pleasant than my experience with an LMI saw and rosewood. It would barely cut in the first place. Once the teeth were fully in the wood, forget about it: the blade would bind and any force was liable to pop it out of the kerf and cut somewhere else. I sharpened the saw, but that didn't help much. The only thing that helped was waxing the saw every 10 strokes, but it was still extremely touchy to keep it in the kerf and moving.

hugh153 - Posted - 07/08/2014:  08:37:46

Hi,

Finally managed to get a print-off from wfret. Thank you to Rudy  and all who responded to the post  My computer skills are slowly improving.

.My unslotted  fretboard blank just  arrived . A slotted one here in UK would have cost the equivalent of $50. As I had only ever purchased pre-slotted, .I hadn't realised  it

came only planed on one side. It was also 4/10" thick. So I am just going to tape

it to a piece of glass with sandpaper attached and attempt to get it to a reasonable flatness and thickness.

Then I am going to attempt to cut the fret slots. Hopefully I can find a suitable saw, and I used to have an old saw box somewhere.

I can only use what I've got , but it's kind of fun attempting things I've never tried before.

As usual, any helpful tips on how to proceed, gratefully  received.

A general word of thanks to all who have shared and advised in the past. In particular Rudy, for sharing so generously his knowledge on his amazing website.

Best Wishes,

Hugh

Patrick Hanna - Posted - 07/08/2014:  09:53:57

Hi, Rudy,

I thought I had been all over your site many times, but I never clicked on your fret slotting/scale length PDFs until today. That's a very nice resource. I bought a pre-slotted board for my banjo project, but if I were to do a fretboard from scratch, I wouldn't hesitate to use your template. In fact, when designing my banjo I laboriously plotted and drew a fingerboard in Illustrator, just so I could visualize the inlays in relation to the frets. I would not have trusted the accuracy of my own drawing for slotting. Thanks for sharing all of your many tips and tricks with the rest of us!

Patrick

Rick Turner - Posted - 07/08/2014:  13:35:00

If you're using a Western-style back saw...a "gentleman's" dovetail saw or some such...pop the blade out of the brass back and turn it around to make it into a Japanese-style pull saw. You can pry open the brass back with a bang-around chisel to get the blade out, then when you get the blade turned around, clamp the back securely in a machinist's vice or close it up with a hammer.. You'll have a lot more control over the saw pulling it than pushing it. You can guide the blade by clamping a block just to the side of the marked out fret slot lines.

Once you've used Japanese-style hand saws, you'll never go back to trying to push a blade through wood.

And Hugh, sanding down .150" of fingerboard thickness is NOT going to be fun. Take it down with a well tuned hand plane.

rudy - Posted - 07/08/2014:  18:34:11

quote:

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Originally posted by Patrick Hanna

Hi, Rudy,



I thought I had been all over your site many times, but I never clicked on your fret slotting/scale length PDFs until today. That's a very nice resource. I bought a pre-slotted board for my banjo project, but if I were to do a fretboard from scratch, I wouldn't hesitate to use your template. In fact, when designing my banjo I laboriously plotted and drew a fingerboard in Illustrator, just so I could visualize the inlays in relation to the frets. I would not have trusted the accuracy of my own drawing for slotting. Thanks for sharing all of your many tips and tricks with the rest of us!



Patrick

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Thanks, Patrick.  I appreciate that very much.

Edited by - rudy on 07/08/2014 18:42:12