dmcclure - Posted - 01/11/2014:  09:48:36

Hi all,

As an experienced musician (on the trumpet), I know that it is important to establish good habits from the start. So I am a little worried about my right hand technique. At present, I have some doubts about HOW I SHOULD HOLD THE PICK.

As far as I can tell, the "standard" way seems to be between the flesh of the thumb and the side of the forefinger, like this:

Is that right? The problem is, this position really hurts my forefinger where the skin is squeezed into the nail by the pressure of the pick. See below — the arrow shows where I mean:

So I have tried moving the pick further along the forefinger, where it is supported by the knuckle:

But I don't know whether there are disadvantages of this method which will come back to haunt me in the future. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Thanks!

Doug in Seville

Geeminy - Posted - 01/11/2014:  11:26:35

Looks like an awfully short pick to me. I would probably put it a little  further out on the index finger. I think each individual will eventually find where their "sweet spot" is for holding a pick. If you ever have a chance to watch Johnny Baier and Buddy Wachter play together, there is a big difference in how they hold their pick. One thing I always do is take some sandpaper that has a sticky back to it and  put a little piece on each side of the pick so it doesn't turn in my fingers while playing.Maybe 100 grit or similar. Only  way I ever found  to control it. I had written a lengthy reply to your original posting last week but somehow or other, I hit a wrong key and it disappeared before I had a chance to send it. I, too, am a trumpet/banjo player and thought you might be interested in reading of my musical rambles through life (80 years).  It would be in my computer somewhere but I can't find it. Will re-do it in a day or two.

hamishpink - Posted - 01/11/2014:  11:32:27

On bouzouki and mandola the position in your last two photos is the preferred method with the pick up on the knuckle. This gives a firm and consistent pick position needed especially on double strung instruments. Maybe mandolin players do the same.

The end of the finger grip tends to be used more by lead guitar players.

dmcclure - Posted - 01/11/2014:  11:41:29

Thanks for your reply, Geeminy. I hope you find that text your wrote - I'd love to read it!

dmcclure - Posted - 01/11/2014:  11:45:26

Thanks for the advice, hamishpink!

haildixon - Posted - 01/11/2014:  18:15:28

like most 'right' ways to do things with banjo or instruments or music in general - I think it's mot about a very general rule-of-thumb (no pun intended). The way you're holding when it hurts IS the "correct" way, and even the amount of pick you have exposed isn't too bad... But really, if it's uncomfortable, change it up. I hold it like that when I'm doing some straight ahead chunking rhythm, then switch to more of a 3-finger-fingertip hold for tremolo, and sometimes for strumming or picking. Sometimes I'll hold it between my middle finger and thumb to give my index finger a rest. Sometimes I might nick the pick and it gets caught on a string and flies out of my hand and then I beat the strings with my fingernails. That's a terrible technique.

There's a very good thread in the 4-string section somewhere that covers this topic pretty well, where Polle has a lot of good comments and even some pictures.

BHO Search: hold pick

Compass56 - Posted - 01/12/2014:  06:57:07

I read with interest your great post in your Trumpet-to-Banjo about pick grip. I say "with interest" because several years ago I had my own pick grip crisis. I was taking a lesson from the great Don Vappie when my playing changed in an instant. Don said that (1) my pick grip need to change, (2) my playing would never get to where it could be without a change, and. (3) he used to hold the pick like me. He said that the change was really tough. When he switched, it was miserable. He was already famous, and he was suddenly playing like a beginner. It took him six months to make the switch, but after the switch was complete, his playing and his tone got way better.

I decided that day to switch to a more traditional grip just like the one to which Don switched. It was miserable for a while, but now, I can't even remember the way I held the pick before.

To me, the theme of this story is "Don't worry." The pick might feel weird in your hands now, but things will change. Your tendons, ligaments, muscles, and bones of your right hand will figure it all out. Just give it time. If I could make two suggestions, I would say. (1) you seem to be holding the pick a bit too tightly. Loosen your grip. Sure, you'll drop it a few times, but like I said, your hand will figure it out. (2) You may have too much of the pick in your hand. The majority of the pick is in your hand. I know such a grip give the illusion of more control, but try holding less of the pick. Doing so may yield great dividends.

Good luck, and keep writing those blog entries. I love them.

Tony L.

CGDA - Posted - 01/12/2014:  07:11:27

There is another different position based on three fingers. It has been suggested by Polle: I tried it and I noticed a remarkable improving of the tone. The problem is that it needs lots of practice so it should be used by beginners, not after using two fingers for years...changing is very difficult.

haildixon - Posted - 01/12/2014:  07:21:27

Tony - what was the grip style you and don switched from and to?

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/12/2014:  07:59:13

Guys,

I´ll get back to you shortly (as soon as possible) regarding not only pick grips - but also regarding striking techniques, banjo styles, playing styles, music styles etc. - all of this come in packages.

Polle

Compass56 - Posted - 01/12/2014:  09:30:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by haildixon

Tony - what was the grip style you and don switched from and to?

 

---

Both of us used an odd pick grip that involved putting the pick between the pads of the the index and middle on one side of the pick and the pad of the thumb on the other.  I came to banjo from a fingerstyle orientation.  I was a Scruggs-style 5-string banjoist (a really bad one) and a fingerstyle guitarist doing chord/melody instrumentals (I was a little better at that.) I mention my fingerstyle background because I I never held a pick until I was well into my 20s (maybe my 30s).  When I finally picked one up, I didn't give how I held it a single thought.  I just grabbed it.  I didn't know that my grip may have been holding me back, because I couldn't do anything anyway, and I certainly didn't know that there was a standard way to hold a pick.  When I switched, I played much looser.  Much of my stiffness went away.  I could tremolo a little bit at an elementary level. (Before the switch, I couldn't tremolo at all.) The grip to which I switched is nothing special or revolutionary.  I put the pick between the outside of my index finger and my thumb pretty much like many guitarists and banjoist I've seen hold it.  The thing is, I didn't know that's how so many others held it until I switched.  It took about six months for the new grip to become natural, permanent thing, but now that it is, I'm pretty happy about the way things turned out.  That banjo lesson with Don Vappie really changed my playing for the better.

Tony L.

Dogface - Posted - 01/12/2014:  09:41:49

I was always worried about dropping the pick when held loosely until I found 'Cat Tongue Picks'... The gripping surface is not just stippled but truly feels like a cat's tongue and stays put. Amazon has them in various thicknesses...

dmcclure - Posted - 01/12/2014:  14:31:04

Thanks for the search link, haildixon! (I should learn people's real names!) I see that this question has been asked before.

dmcclure - Posted - 01/12/2014:  14:35:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by Compass56

I decided that day to switch to a more traditional grip just like the one to which Don switched. It was miserable for a while, but now, I can't even remember the way I held the pick before.

Tony, thanks for your very complete reply. Sounds like a pick-grip change is like an embouchure change on the trumpet (can be traumatic, but sometimes is necessary).

quote:

---

If I could make two suggestions, I would say. (1) you seem to be holding the pick a bit too tightly. Loosen your grip. Sure, you'll drop it a few times, but like I said, your hand will figure it out. (2) You may have too much of the pick in your hand.

---

And thanks for the suggestions!

dmcclure - Posted - 01/13/2014:  12:09:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dogface

I was always worried about dropping the pick when held loosely until I found 'Cat Tongue Picks'... The gripping surface is not just stippled but truly feels like a cat's tongue and stays put. Amazon has them in various thicknesses...

---

I've just ordered some Cat Tongue picks. They wouldn't ship to me in Spain, so I'm having them sent to my mother in Virginia. (Hope she's nice enough to send them on to me.) Oddly, there were two prices ($5.95 and $2.00) for the same .73 mm picks.

Stringsinger - Posted - 01/14/2014:  07:16:34

Guitar players generally hold the pick with a straight (even arched back) thumb.  Banjo players who have a decent tremolo (right hand flexibility) generally bend their thumb slightly or even make a circle with the thumb and index while holding the pick.

A good right hand technique requires a flexible wrist in conjunction with the movement of the pick.