hamishpink - Posted - 07/25/2013:  14:43:07

Having played for 50 years, I've owned, played, assembled, disassembled and set up more than a few banjos, even built a few. I decided to build a cheap (emphasis on cheap) knockabout banjo for my grandsons to experiment with instead of ruining mine. However the end result was remarkable and outplays most of my more expensive items. The problem is that I have no idea why. By all experience and reason it should sound like a bag of nails.

I was given a 30 year old length of mahogany, very light in colour with visible grain pattern (might be far east or even South African) of sufficient size to cut a 26.5 inch scale length neck and peghead in one piece, although I needed to bond on a scrap piece to get the heel depth. Usual filing, scraping, sanding and steel wool to get the finish and I hand cut the heel profile. Basic one way tension rod.  I wanted an ebony fretboard but only had a 2mm veneer, so I laminated it to a 3mm mahogany veneer. Cut the fret slots and bonded to neck, fitted frets and bound the edges to hide the obvious fretboard lamination. So far so good. Sealed with Danish Oil (probably like the US gunstock oil)

I didn't want to build a rim and I needed all the hardware, so I bought a cheap used Ozark TB1 tenor (bottom of the range), but it had a mutiply rim, 24 brackets and hex shoes and even came with a 5 string tailpiece and a chunky co-rod. Real entry level stuff.

The rim was shallow and multi multi ply (7 or 9 ply) of indeterminate woods. No tone ring and the rim was cut square at the top with a slight chamfer on the outside edge.. I fitted the neck, put on a Fibreskyn head, used my normal strings and an entry level 5/8 maple and ebony 3 foot bridge.

But the sound was remarkable. Very loud and the resonator made no difference so I have left it off. It rings like a bell over the whole neck length, but the sound is rich, nothing tinny or metallic here. It's touch sensitive with HOs and POs crisp and clear with virtually no finger pressure needed. Slides glide even over a five or six fret slide and ring the whole way with next to no pressure (like playing bottleneck guitar). I've been playing it for a month and no way will my grandsons get their hands on this one.

I've checked neck relief, action, fret wire width and height and they are spot on with the set up on my other banjos. This has a rich old time sound beating some of the best skin head banjos I have ever owned.

I can't use tone ring type (it hasn't got one), wood, bridge or tailpiece quality as an excuse for the sound. Even the Fibre head shouldn't be doing this on its own. It should be a load of c**p, but it isn't. I am completely mystified.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 07/25/2013:  15:00:21

Good for you!

Every once in a while, something just comes together. It sounds as if you have had that wonderful experience.

Ken

roydsjr - Posted - 07/25/2013:  15:54:44

I have a hickory tone ring instead of a metal one and I love it! I swapped out the tone ring a few months ago and I don't ever plan to put the metal one back in! It has more volume and better tone than it did with the metal one! Nice lite weight banjo that I plan to keep!

eagleisland - Posted - 07/25/2013:  17:19:07

All of which proves that the humblest ingredients can become magical in the hands of the right cook.

No explanation from this end on why it works.  I'm not a builder, or a setup artist, but more importantly, there are too many variables (including the specific pieces of wood) that were involved.

Maybe you can analyze yourself into something brilliant.  I'd try, for a month or two, and I truly hope you arrive at the Next Big Concept.  But beyond that?  If I were you, I'd just be damned happy that I put a great sounding banjo in the hands of my grandsons.  And I'd pray that they were entranced.

five_string - Posted - 07/25/2013:  18:39:45

I guess your grandsons are out one banjo now.

hamishpink - Posted - 07/26/2013:  04:39:23

Thanks eagleisland for the kind words, but the results have nothing to do with any skills I have. I simply assembled a set of junk parts knowing full well that my youngest grandson would at some point use it as a tennis racket.

I agree with Ken - sometimes things just come together without knowing exactly why.

Helix might have views on the rim if he drops in with his experience on end grains. A 3 ply rim has one strip of end grain in contact with the tone ring or head. A 9 ply has four strips plus 8 layers of glue. Perhaps this is working the same way as Helix's rims. Heaven knows what woods were used in the rim - certainly no exotic hardwood or fruitwoods - maybe industrial birch ply and other cheap veneers. Any builders out there might consider an experiment or two with multi ply construction.

One point I forgot to mention. The rim was very soft and previous tightening of the head had pulled the hex shoes up at an angle cutting into the rim. I put stainless steel washers 50% bigger in diameter under the hex shoes on the outside of the rim to spread the load and cover the damage. Admittedly this pushes out the bottom of the brackets so they are no longer vertical. If any sound is travelling through the brackets there is now a lot of metal contact with the rim - much like a spunover rim - maybe this is contributing and worth a test or two.

I don't plan on stripping it down for a while but I intend to repair and correct the hasty workmanship, starting with countersinking the washers to put the brackets vertical. I might even try a simple hoop tone ring in steel or brass, plastic or even wood laminate just to see what happens. Easily removed if it doesn't work. The neck I'll leave well alone - it functions well and the finish is sleek and smooth. I had put guitar tuners on the peghead - I like the gearing and may well leave them until other experiments have been tried.

Will update this thread if anything new develops. If anybody else has a load of junk parts, give it a try and see what happens.

Tony

pdbanjo - Posted - 07/26/2013:  08:10:10

Tony

A BIG congrats on your luthier skills. Sounds like you've done what I've been explaining folks here for a long time, that even tho' the same luthier builds a number of exact instruments, at the same time, on the same workbench, from the same tree, using identical parts that each instrument will have a slightly different voice. Famous century old  violin makers have documented this as being an unknown fact during their endeavors, too. In that regard, I never judge an instrument by its age, maker, provenance, beauty or components, only its voice and playability and definitely not its cost. Good on you!!!