Lyndon Smith - Posted - 05/19/2013:  08:36:52

After spending much time this weekend working on the test bed 8" rim and it's tone, ring, tension ring and flesh hoop, I decided to 'grab the bull by the horns' and fit the calfskin head...

The calfskin came from Bill Miller and was very stiff when dry. I soaked it for about 5 minutes in cold water but it still did not seem to be supple enough so I added some hot water for another 5 minute soak. That seemed to do the trick.

I then used the fitting technique recently mentioned where the excess calfskin is pulled through inside the rim, it just seemed a nicer approach.

I had a quick watch of the YouTube video and then started.

I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was, there's no rush, just stay calm and proceed in a business-like manner. first pulling the wrinkles off the flesh hoop and then tightening the hooks.

Calfskin Soaking

Initial Stage in Fitting

Fitted!

Lyndon Smith - Posted - 05/19/2013:  09:17:56

I am assuming that I can take the calfskin off and later re-soak it and refit it. Is that correct?

The flesh hoop could do with being smaller, I'll do that when I remount.

I am also assuming that when the calfskin is dry that I do the final tensioning, is that correct?

Will1717 - Posted - 05/19/2013:  09:54:49

Lyndon:

Interesting way to mount a head. I've never seen it done that way before. Can you attach a link to the You Tube video that shows this procedure?  This just may be a better way to go at it if your one handed as in my case.

Bill Rickard

Lyndon Smith - Posted - 05/19/2013:  10:03:27

Bill: This is the first part: youtube.com/watch?v=b9r2VGZf--0 and this is the second: youtu.be/7NvWPKQJdm0

This is the first calfskin that I've mounted but I found it very straight forward and it was fun. The wrinkles all pulled out easily. I now know that my flesh hoop is a bit too big but the gap between the tone ring and tension ring of 0.15" is plenty.

ACFairbanks - Posted - 05/19/2013:  10:17:11

quote:

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Originally posted by Will1717

 

Lyndon:

Interesting way to mount a head. I've never seen it done that way before. Can you attach a link to the You Tube video that shows this procedure?  This just may be a better way to go at it if your one handed as in my case.

Bill Rickard

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Howdy,

Interesting, indeed...

But, wouldn't this method change the tone significantly?

With this "pull the excess inside the drum" approach, the part of the head that is in contact with the drum, or tone ring, would not be a single thickness as with the traditional method. Instead, at the contact area, it would be double the thickness. That would certainly seem to be significant, but I don't have a clue about what the change in tone might be.

Any thoughts, or experience with this?

All the best,

A.C.

rudy - Posted - 05/19/2013:  11:36:05

quote:

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Originally posted by ACFairbanks

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Will1717

 

Lyndon:

Interesting way to mount a head. I've never seen it done that way before. Can you attach a link to the You Tube video that shows this procedure?  This just may be a better way to go at it if your one handed as in my case.

Bill Rickard

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Howdy,

Interesting, indeed...

But, wouldn't this method change the tone significantly?

With this "pull the excess inside the drum" approach, the part of the head that is in contact with the drum, or tone ring, would not be a single thickness as with the traditional method. Instead, at the contact area, it would be double the thickness. That would certainly seem to be significant, but I don't have a clue about what the change in tone might be.

Any thoughts, or experience with this?

All the best,

A.C.

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That would be my first thought.

If you were to assemble a pot using any type of tone ring or even a woody the last thing I'd want to do would be lay down a layer of resilient material such as skin before stretching the head over it, which is what is effectively taking place here.  It certainly doesn't seem like it would be a very good idea even if it's a neater install.

Someone with experience with doing it both ways hopefully will chime in.

Lyndon Smith - Posted - 05/19/2013:  13:28:12

Mmmmmm. Two layers of skin rather than one but both under a lot of tension. It may well affect the sound but maybe not adversely. Unfortunately, I don't have a complete banjo to test this on...

Lyndon Smith - Posted - 05/19/2013:  13:46:05

I've added a comment to the video on YouTube asking how two layers of skin affect the tone. Maybe we'll get an answer from there...

At least, mounting the calfskin this way gave me the chance to see the pot as it will look. I was always intending to dismantle and remount later after finishing the rim and polishing/ageing the brass. Maybe for the final mounting I'll do it the traditional way...

TLG - Posted - 05/19/2013:  13:50:23

I have seen a few banjo heads done this way. From my understanding of this method, this is the way drummers used to do it, don't know this to be a fact tho.
Anyway , it's the upside down way or the bassackerds way. As said above you end up with 2 layers of skin on the rim top.

Tom

ACFairbanks - Posted - 05/19/2013:  16:22:39

quote:

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Originally posted by Lyndon Smith

 

Mmmmmm. Two layers of skin rather than one but both under a lot of tension. It may well affect the sound but maybe not adversely. Unfortunately, I don't have a complete banjo to test this on...

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Howdy,

It seems to me that only one layer (the top layer) is under tension. The bottom layer would be under no tension whatever...

All the best,

A.C.

Lyndon Smith - Posted - 05/19/2013:  16:32:46

ACFairbanks: Yes, I actually meant compression (over the tone ring) but you are correct. What really matters, of course, is whether it adversely affects the sound produced and so far we have only a gut feeling that it would...

davidppp - Posted - 05/19/2013:  21:03:01

Resoaking and remounting? I did that just recently, pulling the head about 1/16" tighter all around to get a better fit, and it worked fine. There's often not much room for adjustment via the tension ring. I was amused by a comment in an article by Sam Stewart about head mounting. After giving detailed instructions, he admitted that basically (to paraphrase) it's a crap shoot. Each skin is a bit different in terms of shrinkage.

I wouldn't do the doubled-under thing. The biological imperative or manifest destiny of banjo design is less absorption of head vibrations at the rim. Then again, some people stuff theirs with socks...

Jonnycake White - Posted - 05/20/2013:  10:03:20

quote:

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Originally posted by Lyndon Smith

 

I am assuming that I can take the calfskin off and later re-soak it and refit it. Is that correct?

The flesh hoop could do with being smaller, I'll do that when I remount.

I am also assuming that when the calfskin is dry that I do the final tensioning, is that correct?

 

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I don't think it would be possible to change the flesh hoop and reuse the skin, once the skin has been trimmed.  What would you grab onto to pull out the wrinkles?

Absolutely do the final tensioning when the calfskin has dried a day or two - it is much stronger when dry and besides you wouldn't know how much more to tighten it until it's dry.

Lyndon Smith - Posted - 05/20/2013:  11:32:57

Jonnycake White: I've not trimmed it yet, so maybe it's still possible...

jbalch - Posted - 05/20/2013:  17:03:56

I've seen a few old heads installed this way.  But I've not tried it.  Very interesting.

I don't think the extra layer of hide will have a big adverse affect on the tone.  The extra material might dampen it a bit. The two layers will naturally glue themselves together.

Be careful trimming the excess. Looks like it would easy to cut the head. 

I'm linking this to techie heads group.

Edited by - jbalch on 05/20/2013 17:05:47

jbalch - Posted - 05/21/2013:  05:29:51

"techie heads" I have no idea how that happened.  I am a horrible typist.  But that is worse than normal. Maybe we should start a new group for those guys (whoever they might be).

I meant Hide Heads Group  banjohangout.org/group/hideheads

DanKnowles - Posted - 06/06/2013:  07:13:42

Lyndon,

I've mounted heads both ways and I have never noticed any difference in tone. It is just a bit easier for me to mount in the usual manner because the trimming of the excess material goes better... no cutting through the stretched head with my knife. This does create a very neat front appearance though.

Lyndon Smith - Posted - 06/06/2013:  07:52:14

Dan: Thanks, I've taken the head off now. It doesn't seem too worse for wear and I can remount later. I may try the 'normal' way next time. Easier to trim but harder to get the tension ring level and at the correct height, I would imagine...