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bbanjoboy - Posted - 05/07/2013: 21:11:08
Well, thought I would share this ...
I'm not wanting to spread any rumors, but this is first hand, so it might give some heads up to what I'm sure a lot of folks have been wondering...
While I was at the Dallas International guitar show last month, I was approached by a guy representing Gibson. He's a great guy and assured me that they have not abandoned banjos. He said that they have full intentions of getting the banjos back up and running, but they are just now getting recouperated from the flood.
I know it seems like a long time since the flood, and they have been producing mandos for a while now, but like I said, he assured me they are trying to get things ready. He informed me that all the machines and tooling were destroyed in the flood. I'll most likely be keeping in touch with him, so if I learn anything about the progress, I'll post it here...Anyhow, just thought all you GIbson guys might like to know that there is hope on the horizon...
hywayman - Posted - 05/07/2013: 21:33:14
That's good news, or at least some hope that we'll be seeing some new Gibson banjos available soon. Thanks for the info!
bbanjoboy - Posted - 05/07/2013: 21:39:24
Yep, one thing I forgot to mention was that he was asking me a lot about styles etc.. he wanted to know what I thought. Evidently there weren't a lot of banjo guys at the show... imagine that...lol.. anyhow, he was thinking that they would come out initially with the Granada and the 250.
I believe that I convinced him to drop the 250 idea and do a wreath 3 and the Granada... So, there ya have it...
Turnabout945 - Posted - 05/07/2013: 22:41:51
I agree, the 3 and Granada would be a great place to start. If they do a 250, I'd love to see it as a bowtie replica instead of the 70s and up version, which imo looks too much like a 3 for it to really have a place in a lineup that also has the 3. It sure does seem like a good time for Gibson to jump into the market, and given how well Deering is doing, it appears that there's space for another big name American manufacturer.
Emiel - Posted - 05/07/2013: 22:42:38
quote:
Originally posted by bbanjoboy
He informed me that all the machines and tooling were destroyed in the flood.
It's been confirmed here many times on the BHO that Gibson sold their machines and tooling for banjos and fired their banjo people before the flood...
bbanjoboy - Posted - 05/07/2013: 22:44:25
like I said, just passing on what I heard first hand....
Emiel - Posted - 05/07/2013: 23:07:34
quote:
Originally posted by bbanjoboy
like I said, just passing on what I heard first hand....
I know, and your main point is that they say they'll will make banjos again, not why they stopped making them.
Lou Bourbon - Posted - 05/07/2013: 23:44:07
If he is asking you about banjos...he is clearly the wrong guy for the job...not because you don;t know but because HE DOESN'T. The guy running the banjo division at Gibson should ALREADY know what is going to work and sell.
Sounds like a money loosing proposition to me. With the huge inventory of prewar tenors waiting to be converted and other banjo companies already in the market...including Recording King and Kel Kroydon (Beating the crap out of Gibson at their own game with lower prices), Gibson would be relying on an already small and now better educated market and simply hoping that the Script Gibson logo is enough to charge considerably more for something that RK can sell you for under $1300...AMB, under $2000.
To be honest...There is a money MINT to be had at Gibson if they would sell ONLY parts with the Gibson script logo, including Tonerings and rims. They could even sell necks...all with genuine Gibson markings. Trying to sell complete banjos seems ridiculous at this time...I can sell a HIGHER quality Prewar Gibson conversion for what is often cheaper than New Gibson prices...and the banjo I sell will HOLD its value...not suffer.
Hey though...the more power to them...they clearly have the "right guy" working on this.
Lou
bbanjoboy - Posted - 05/08/2013: 00:48:58
Hey Lou...
not trying to argue any points here.. just passing on what I heard..
Old Man - Posted - 05/08/2013: 01:22:19
Gibson banjos will sell .they sell now and will sell when production starts.
markjr - Posted - 05/08/2013: 01:35:16
I agree there "Old Man", I think Gibson would sell just by the name alone.
desert rose - Posted - 05/08/2013: 03:28:32
Personally I wouldnt hold my breath. This is the third or fourth time an official Gibson rep has dropped the same nugget since 2010, last year at the Dallas show I remember the same thing happened.
Bottom line IF Gibson wanted to start making banjos in house they would have to find and hire an entire team to do the job. And it could be assumed nobody would have any experience to start, not a warm fuzzy feeling for quality. Even if they found a banjo luthier that is basically NO experience in production of musical instruments, night and day. Luthiers in a manufacturing facility are going to sink the project. Second ALL machines and tooling would have to be bought and tooling designed and made., We are talking BIG$, finally an entire subcontractor network would have to be setup and I know many if not most of the old subcontractors want nothing to do with the big G now.
Im sure the world will see new Gibson banjos in the future but American made in house banjos are going to be a tall order for the near future. Henry invested his spare change last month in Teac.
Scott
MBCrawford - Posted - 05/08/2013: 03:57:13
I have heard this before, I heard the same thing at SPBGMA last February 2012 in Nashville, I'm not saying that this person didn't talk to you about Gibson banjos, but I heard the same basic conversation before. I think that Gibson is fishing to see if people are willing to stick with the brand or something like that. When the new Gibson banjos roll off the line then I will believe it.
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/08/2013: 04:16:38
The only way I see Gibson getting back in to the banjo market would be through their Epiphone factory in China. 90% of banjo players buy based on the name on the peghead. Gibson would have lines waiting at stores if banjos were made with the script on the peghead. Gibson could do just what RK is doing by making all the parts overseas then assemble them in the US. Geeee for how many years did Gibson built banjos using Prucha hardware from Czechoslovakia. Jim Cox and First Quality supplied all the wood parts. I don't see Gibson needing to hire 50 luthier elves and tons of machinery to build banjos again. There's hardware makers & luthiers who would supply Gibson at a heartbeat. Run the business like the GM assembly plant and they will be back in business again.
IMO Gibson will be back with vengence some day
BPorter - Posted - 05/08/2013: 04:56:57
Post War Gibson doesn't have to make banjos, everyone else is doing that for them...only difference is the name on the peghead!
loukiii - Posted - 05/08/2013: 05:56:20
That should introduce a new category, the highly sought after Pre Flood Gibson.
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/08/2013: 06:13:56
Gibson should just buy KK-250s for $2000, put a Gibson script in the peghead, sell them to dealers for $3,000 and let dealers sell them for $4,000.
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/08/2013: 06:17:35
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
The only way I see Gibson getting back in to the banjo market would be through their Epiphone factory in China
Is there such a thing? Or do Epiphone products come out of the same factories producing generic and identical instruments that differ only in name?
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/08/2013: 06:48:45
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory
Gibson should just buy KK-250s for $2000, put a Gibson script in the peghead, sell them to dealers for $3,000 and let dealers sell them for $4,000.
Not a bad idea. The KK-250s are spot on in every aspect. I own one with a Huber HR30 ring that will blow you away.
banjoman56 - Posted - 05/08/2013: 07:00:14
As far as I'm concerned, they can stick to guitars. Small builders like Stelling, Sullivan, Yates, Hatfield etc. make better banjos for less money IMO, so all Gibson would do is make it harder on these guys. Gibson has lived off their name for too long already. Now if they would make a good quality instrument at a reasonable price, that would be a different matter. Don't see it happening though. Quality has been a problem with Gibson for the last 40 years or so. Even in the Greg Rich period, it was not consistent, Some of them were good and some not so good. How many Stelling duds has anyone seen? I've never seen one personally! If Geoff and other independent builders can produce quality instruments on a consistent basis, Gibson should be able to do the same.
desert rose - Posted - 05/08/2013: 07:41:59
Gibson has a factory in Qingdao China its joint venture with Sam Ick. However they dont make banjos. Epiphone banjos are made at the big banjo maker in Dalian that makes EVERYBODYS banjos with any name you want on them.
Id have to disagree that the subcontractor question will be a real headache. Qualified subcontractors RUN from business chances with Gibson. These nasty subcontractors have a bad habit, they expect to be paid and paid on time for their hard work, something big G has the WORST reputation for in thr instrument industry, its WELL known
scott
kmwaters - Posted - 05/08/2013: 07:50:55
So hard to separate rumor from fact, and it may be even harder in the corporate world. But the man was evidently just sharing what he was told in an honest and upright fashion. Whether it really happens only time will tell. Gibson is a strange company.
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/08/2013: 08:03:06
quote:
Originally posted by desert rose
Epiphone banjos are made at the big banjo maker in Dalian that makes EVERYBODYS banjos with any name you want on them.
Would that, then be the source of everything except Recording King and Gold Star? Does Gold Tone get its parts there for assembly in the US?
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/08/2013: 08:32:45
Check out madeinchina.com for brand name instruments. I picked up a PRS electric guitar that's great. The craftsmanship was perfect and all the electronics are great. Why not buy direct IMO.
Contact some of the dealers direct. They have more to sell than what they advertise or know where to find what you're looking for. They are very friendly and helpful people.
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/08/2013: 09:42:10
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
Check out madeinchina.com for brand name instruments. I picked up a PRS electric guitar that's great. The craftsmanship was perfect and all the electronics are great. Why not buy direct IMO.
PRS guitars are made in Maryland. The SE model is made in Korea. I would assume you bought a PRS copy, not a manufacturer direct PRS.
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/08/2013: 10:32:05
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
Check out madeinchina.com for brand name instruments. I picked up a PRS electric guitar that's great. The craftsmanship was perfect and all the electronics are great. Why not buy direct IMO.
PRS guitars are made in Maryland. The SE model is made in Korea. I would assume you bought a PRS copy, not a manufacturer direct PRS.
You can call it a copy if you like. I haven't found anything that deems this a copy yet. What a great ax madeinchina.com/product/2011-p...290.shtml
The Pope - Posted - 05/08/2013: 10:45:14
Might be a fine guitar but it's obviously a "copy" of a PRS. Look where you got it...
bbanjoboy - Posted - 05/08/2013: 10:59:52
You should see some of the knock off les pauls they are making.. I saw a 57 reissue that even had the 'made in canada' case, all the
'gibson' paperwork etc etc.. .. it was almost perfect dead on copy.... be very careful these days....
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/08/2013: 11:50:54
quote:
Originally posted by The Pope
Might be a fine guitar but it's obviously a "copy" of a PRS. Look where you got it...
Who's to say the guitar is a copy? Because of where I got it? These guitars are bought & sold all over the world from china. Do you think every mom buying one of these for Junior are researching if these are copies? Moms see the name PRS, Gibson, Martin and they buy buy buy. If these guitars are known copies you would hear PRS screaming bloody foul in your living room. The same goes for Martin & Gibson.
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/08/2013: 14:28:21
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quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
I haven't found anything that deems this a copy yet.
I just said what deems it a copy: Genuine PRS (Paul Reed Smith) guitars are made in the state of Maryland in the USA, except for the PRS SE line of guitars which are made in Korea. You have a guitar made in China, which is neither the USA nor Korea. Therefore, I believe your guitar was not made by PRS or made under the authority of PRS. That makes it copy. It may look, feel and sound like a PRS. But that doesn't make it a PRS. PRS is a brand name, not a generic descriptor of a type of guitar. Brand signifies origin or source. If your guitar came from some factory in China, I don't believe it came from PRS. Don't know how many ways I can say that.
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/08/2013: 15:48:47
The company I purchased the guitar from is nothing more than a distributor. For all we know the guitar could have been made in the State of Maryland USA and sold via a Chinese distributor. Or sold by a distributor in China for PRS made instruments in Korea. Would that still be a copy?
Gibson condoned copy instruments to be made in every garage & work shop back in the 80's. The publicity increased the sales of their high cost instruments direct from Gibson. Do you remember when FQ sold all the parts to make a Gibson banjo including the Gibson inlays & labels. Years ago festival vendor tables were loaded with Gibson parts for sale. IMO all planned and allowed by Gibson as part of name recognition spread across the world.
IMO Guitar companies are doing the same thing only using overseas builders instead of local builders for a larger & cheaper scale distribution.
This is all my opinion and twisted method of thinking. But, it could all be true 
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/08/2013: 16:37:33
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
The company I purchased the guitar from is nothing more than a distributor. For all we know the guitar could have been made in the State of Maryland USA and sold via a Chinese distributor. Or sold by a distributor in China for PRS made instruments in Korea. Would that still be a copy?
The link that you pointed to says the guitar is made in China by Dave. Genuine PRS Guitars are not made in China by Dave. This is getting tiresome
I note that none of the pcitures shows a peghead. Does the peghead on your guitar say Paul Reed Smith in gold script? Or PRS in big letters on the truss rod cover? If not, it's not a genuine PRS.
I'm pretty sure that the price you paid is below even the wholesale price of a US-made PRS guitar. It is not a PRS.
quote:
Gibson condoned copy instruments to be made in every garage & work shop back in the 80's. The publicity increased the sales of their high cost instruments direct from Gibson. Do you remember when FQ sold all the parts to make a Gibson banjo including the Gibson inlays & labels. Years ago festival vendor tables were loaded with Gibson parts for sale. IMO all planned and allowed by Gibson as part of name recognition spread across the world.
IMO Guitar companies are doing the same thing only using overseas builders instead of local builders for a larger & cheaper scale distribution.
Gibson never condoned the making of copy instruments. They could not fight it all. They could not go after everybody. The only condoning, if there was any, was for using those Gibson-copy inlays in repair or restoration of actual Gibson instruments or making conversion 5-string necks for actual Gibson 4-string banjos. They did not -- and neither does any musical instrument manufacturer -- look on any kind of copying as a good thing or as a way to build name recognition. Whatever you think you recall of Gibson in the 1980s, I recall Gibson more recently suing others over copying the designs of instruments -- including bodies, pegheads and even truss rod covers. -- It's been pointed out on the Hangout in the past that Gisbon by the 70s or 80s didn't own any copyright or trademark to anything having to do with banjos - except maybe the Gibson name. So their ability to go after copy banjos was limited.
I work in advertising and marketing and not one of my clients has ever been happy about other companies or individuals copying their products. I have worked for companies that have gone after imitators. I have worked for companies that provide services in helping trademark owners go after imitators or counterfeiters. I challenge you to find or quote one single CEO or marketing executive who has ever said that others copying the exact look or design of his products or trademarks or trade dress is a good thing that made him happy.
I have heard your theory before. Always expressed by people who have never had anything to do with brand development or marketing. Just like the mail-it-yourself copyright or patent, it is urban myth.
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
This is all my opinion and twisted method of thinking.
No argument there.
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/08/2013: 19:00:12
quote:
I note that none of the pcitures shows a peghead. Does the peghead on your guitar say Paul Reed Smith in gold script? Or PRS in big letters on the truss rod cover? If not, it's not a genuine PRS.
I'm pretty sure that the price you paid is below even the wholesale price of a US-made PRS guitar. It is not a PRS.
quote: REPLY
There's large white letter on the truss rod cover PRS
I brought the banjo to a local PRS service center for some set up work. I never said it was a warranty problem. The set up was completed and I picked the banjo up with no charge for the work. I would assume I would have been told the banjo was a copy at that time.
Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 05/09/2013: 00:41:43
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
quote:
I note that none of the pcitures shows a peghead. Does the peghead on your guitar say Paul Reed Smith in gold script? Or PRS in big letters on the truss rod cover? If not, it's not a genuine PRS.
I'm pretty sure that the price you paid is below even the wholesale price of a US-made PRS guitar. It is not a PRS.
quote: REPLY
There's large white letter on the truss rod cover PRS
I brought the banjo to a local PRS service center for some set up work. I never said it was a warranty problem. The set up was completed and I picked the banjo up with no charge for the work. I would assume I would have been told the banjo was a copy at that time.
Huh? You have what you think is a PRS banjo!?
BTW: If it was made in China it's a cheap pirate copy of a real PRS, and if PRS could find out who's importing them they'd be on them like a coat of paint. Lawyer city.
prsguitars.com/forum/showthrea...-Shootout
And yes; the same thing happens with cheap Chinese-made Gibson and Martin copies as well. Buyer beware.
~Pete
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/09/2013: 04:27:45
The shoot out video clearly showed there was no difference between the PRS Custom, Korean or alleged fake. If PRS was on top of alleged copies you would think for $300 they would have sliced a fake open to determine the wood type instead of guessing on the video.
I don't buy your argument if it comes from China it's a fake. The odds are the guitar I have was made in Korea, but is a real PRS.
Today I'm buying a Martin D45 from the same country.
lightgauge - Posted - 05/09/2013: 04:35:27
"I don't buy your argument if it comes from China it's a fake. The odds are the guitar I have was made in Korea, but is a real PRS."
You forgot the smiley face on this line!
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/09/2013: 06:14:05
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
I don't buy your argument if it comes from China it's a fake. The odds are the guitar I have was made in Korea, but is a real PRS.
Contact the Paul Reed Smith company. Ask what they think.
As to the odds being your guitar came from Korea: The link you pointed to clearly said it was made in China.
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/09/2013: 06:29:33
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
Today I'm buying a Martin D45 from the same country.
Oh, yeah. For $365, this is definitely a real Martin D-45:
tradetang.com/for-sale/Wholesa...5280.html
Probably actually made in USA, shipped to the Chinese distributor and then sent back to the US. That's why they can sell it so cheap. Each border crossing knocks a few hundred dollars off the price. If they could have found a way to send the guitar through Indonesia and Mexico it would be free just for the ordering. Why pay $7,999 at MusiciansFriend, when you can get the real thing from China for so much less?
Or this real Gibson ES-335 guitar for just $405. A much better deal than $2,999 at MusiciansFriend. And certainly not a fake.
tradetang.com/for-sale/-ES-355...954.html#
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/09/2013: 07:17:56
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
Today I'm buying a Martin D45 from the same country.
Oh, yeah. For $365, this is definitely a real Martin D-45:
tradetang.com/for-sale/Wholesa...5280.html
Probably actually made in USA, shipped to the Chinese distributor and then sent back to the US. That's why they can sell it so cheap. Each border crossing knocks a few hundred dollars off the price. If they could have found a way to send the guitar through Indonesia and Mexico it would be free just for the ordering. Why pay $7,999 at MusiciansFriend, when you can get the real thing from China for so much less?
Or this real Gibson ES-335 guitar for just $405. A much better deal than $2,999 at MusiciansFriend. And certainly not a fake.
tradetang.com/for-sale/-ES-355...954.html#
Hey Hickory what can I tell you. I don't have your answers or solutions to how or why you can buy the same instrument overseas for much less. Your assumptions are they are fakes and mine are not. IMO if the guitars are fakes & the US companies were concerned they'd do something about it. And, damm fast. I'm willing to bet hundreds if not thousands of these $300 instruments are sold every year in the US for $7K and the general public loves it.
Call Martin, Gibson & PRS today and give them a heads up. We'll see if in 6 months the Chinese sellers have stopped.
How many Gibson banjos new & used that are not real are sold and purchased as real Gibson banjos every year in the US?? Please don't tell me none. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/09/2013: 08:04:37
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb:
How many Gibson banjos new & used that are not real are sold and purchased as real Gibson banjos every year in the US?? Please don't tell me none. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
Of course there are fake Gibsons being passed off as authentic. I'm not the one disputing that product counterfeiting happens.
You're the one who acknowledges that product counterfeiting happens, but remains convinced that your $300 Chinese PRS is authentic and that it is made in Korea even though the Chinese who sold it you clearly state it is made in China.
I am certain that PRS, Gibson, Martin and other owners of brands are well aware of the counterfeiting that is going on. I am certain they are doing what they can about it. But whatever they are doing is not something they always publicly reveal or that gets reported. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that some of these companies don't have the resources (money) to fight the counterfeiters as effectively as they would like. It wold not surprise me to learn that the US government, with its own resource constraints and bigger fish to fry, is not a big help, either.
bbanjoboy - Posted - 05/09/2013: 08:09:13
wow.. talk about a hijacked thread...
250gibson - Posted - 05/09/2013: 08:29:36
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
Check out madeinchina.com for brand name instruments. I picked up a PRS electric guitar that's great. The craftsmanship was perfect and all the electronics are great. Why not buy direct IMO.
PRS guitars are made in Maryland. The SE model is made in Korea. I would assume you bought a PRS copy, not a manufacturer direct PRS.
You can call it a copy if you like. I haven't found anything that deems this a copy yet. What a great ax madeinchina.com/product/2011-p...290.shtml
Well for one, PRS custom model does not have 3 knob controls. It has 2 knobs and a switch. It also does not have covered pickups. And I believe all PRS guitars with tremolo come with locking tuners, also the shape of a PRS tremolo arm is more like a fender tremolo arm, not like shown in the photo.
BanjoLink - Posted - 05/09/2013: 08:42:30
Sorry - high jacking continued!
Prewartb3 - you can't be serious! Have you not seen photos of the guitar shows in China where the Martin guitars and even their display designs are exact replicas of the Martin Guitar Company? I guess US patent laws are just not applicable in China until they begin to import them into the US at which point it is a big problem. But I guess they can continue to produce these knock-offs at home with impunity.
Old Hickory has been exactly right on each and every point - stop digging!
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/09/2013: 10:10:36
I apologize bbanjoboy My bad. 
Here's my point and I will make this the last post in respect to bbanjoboy. I believe the big companies do know exactly what's going on overseas and approve. I speculate they either own or are in bed with the overseas factories for promotional & profitable reasons. An excellent marketing ploy to be in control of both the good and bad guy. Profit ends up in to both pockets.
I have no proof except viewing the instruments myself. The same method as determining a prewar banjo is real or a fake. It's too coincidental that some Maryland US PRS parts match the Chinese parts to the T.
Someone somewhere's not telling the truth IMO.
I'm done (the smile's for lightgauge)
The Pope - Posted - 05/09/2013: 11:38:44
Here's somthing from the 355 ad: "Our guitar is of the finest quality,You may be wondering why so amazing product with so cheap price? yes ,it is possible !!!because it has been manufactured in china, in which the labour is cheap than world other country." 
prewartb3 - Posted - 05/09/2013: 12:01:10
I told Kenny I wouldn't post anymore.
Posted - 5/9/2013 2:38 PM
Here's somthing from the 355 ad: "Our guitar is of the finest quality,You may be wondering why so amazing product with so cheap price? yes ,it is possible !!!because it has been manufactured in china, in which the labour is cheap than world other country."
Good we have an honest Chinese seller who disclosed the origin of his instrument. Who says PRS is not involved in the manufacturing? You're missing the point 
Sorry Kenny I do wish some of these posters would defend our borders as much as they defend guitar builders.
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/09/2013: 12:39:01
quote:
Originally posted by prewartb3
Who says PRS is not involved in the manufacturing? You're missing the point
Who says, or even suggests, they are, other than you? And based on what? That to your eye the components are really close copies? That's it? Of course they're close copies. To some people. That's the point.
From the article I linked to:
Frank De Fina, Vice President of Global Sales and Marketing for Paul Reed Smith Guitars, offered this comment: “When it comes to telling a PRS guitar from a fake, all you have to do is pick up a guitar and look at it. PRS finishes and build quality are extremely difficult to copy. The problem is off and on … chronic yet intermittent, but thanks to our loyal customers, we are notified instantly and then notify our legal team immediately.”
Doesn't sound like the comment of someone whose company is involved in the Chinese manufacture of copies of the company's product.
But I'm sure you're going to tell us he's lying.
Never let a good conspiracy theory die. After all, the absence of evidence only proves how successful the conspiracy is.
scaggs7 - Posted - 05/09/2013: 19:04:15
what do they sound like. I'm sure the knock offs don't sound as good as the real thing
h - Posted - 05/09/2013: 20:23:22
So the short answer to the original Topic question is: no. There may be new Gibson banjos coming someday, but not soon.
My prediction, worth all of 2 cents, is that if and when they do return, it will be in very small numbers of their ESS models. Small quantity, highest prices. Probably not the RB-250 or Style 3. And they will build them by hiring some leading American small makers, and have them build to Gibson specs. And it won't happen in the next year or two. The overall business climate in our country needs to change before they will make the investment.
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