DJBob - Posted - 04/22/2013:  06:10:00

When I first started playing I took about 10 or 12 lessons from a really good banjo instructor who had me use Tony Trischka's complete book.

The book is a great tool and full of information but to be perfectly honest if the book was the only tool I had, I would have given up by now.

I would study the book for a day or so then run to YouTube to try and pickup a song or something that I could be shown and use "right now" as opposed to sitting back and practicing a roll or trying to figure out how to read a tab. I know tab reading and practicing rolls are necessary but they are soooo darn boring! It takes me hours to learn a song from tab but pick it right up when shown or able to watch.

I am just about back in a position where I can take a few more lessons but Lord have mercy, I am dreading going back to the book.

Edited by - DJBob on 05/30/2013 16:09:40

brummeister1 - Posted - 04/22/2013:  06:16:31

If that's the way that particular teacher teaches, then yes, in that situation, you probably will have to use the book. But, how often do you get lessons? What, once a week, 30 minutes? Small amount of time to have to use the book. You can learn any way you feel in the meantime, and YouTube is a great, almost limitless resource. I agree on practice being very boring at times. All things set aside, if ya lose interest, you wont get anywhere regardless of what you're doing or how you're doing it. In short, keep on picking, but whatever ya do, don't forget the grinning too :)

spittenkittens - Posted - 04/22/2013:  06:19:29

I know where your coming from, except I can't afford a teacher. But I suspect there are good reasons for everyone telling us how to do things. Of course you need not do them but hoe fast will you learn? And how good will your playing be? There is usually a little boredom in learning but I suspect the good banjo players put in there time doing those very things.

brummeister1 - Posted - 04/22/2013:  06:23:33

I should've asked, What do you want to be when your banjo grows up?

SWCooper - Posted - 04/22/2013:  06:31:36

At risk of giving off a "kids these days..." vibe -- man, I would have killed for something like YouTube when I started.

brummeister1 - Posted - 04/22/2013:  06:36:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by SWCooper

 

At risk of giving off a "kids these days..." vibe -- man, I would have killed for something like YouTube when I started.

---

.....where there even computers back then?  haha jk

Stiv_MacRae - Posted - 04/22/2013:  06:44:56

The training materials available these days allow you to learn any way you want. If you like video, use video; if you like tabs, use tabs; if you want personal lessons, go find a teacher. Grammy award-winning artists are out there begging for students. There are so many good players, you can probably have someone come over to your house and move your fingers for you. I'm with SWCooper -- I would have killed for any of this when I started.

Banjophobic - Posted - 04/22/2013:  06:48:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJBob

 

When I first started playing I took about 10 or 12 lessons from a really good banjo instructor who had me use Tony Trischka's complete book.

The book is a great tool and full of information but to be perfectly honest if the book was the only tool I had, I would have given up by now.

I would study the book for a day or so then run to YouTube to try and pickup a song or something that I could be shown and use "right now" as opposed to sitting back and practicing a roll or trying to figure out how to read a tab. I know tab reading and practicing rolls are necessary but they are soooo darn boring! It takes me hours to learn a song from tab but pick it right up when shown or able to watch.

I am just about back in a position where I can take a few more lessons but Lord have mercy, I am dreading going back to the book.

Do I have to learn from a book? And would my teacher tell me to take a hike if I told him that I wasn't happy learning that way?

---

Why does your teacher need to use someone else's book to 'teach'' banjo, and why are you paying someone else to read  it to you? I have never understood this, personally. Either you have formed a methodology and understand what it takes to play, and impart that to someone else (teach), or you haven't.  Many times there are 'banjo teacher's' in music stores that are a page or two ahead of the student-thats not what you should be paying for.

This is akin to going to a class about car racing and having a 'race car teacher'  read from Jeff Gordon's book about racing. Why not ask if the teacher knows how to race a car and then tell you how they did it and how they will help you do it. If they don't have any  personal experience or simply cant tell you how in a way that connects, well, thats a problem. 

Edited by - Banjophobic on 04/22/2013 06:52:10

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 04/22/2013:  06:50:06

There is no one source that can tell you everything you need to know--no book, no teacher, no recording. All the people who become self-sufficient players do so by putting in the effort to synthesize what they've learned from various sources and making it their own. Or, as someone once put it, "All good musicians are self-taught, even the ones who have taken lessons."

That said, people have different learning styles. Some of us learn well from books (personally, I do), but even if you do, your first job is to move beyond the printed page and learn to process the material directly with your ears and hands. That book (the visual element) is an extra step that has no place in actual playing. It's simply a way of delivering information at the initial stage of learning.

Let your teacher know that you've found you learn better by watching and/or listening, and that using a book doesn't work well for you. Ask your teacher to try a different approach--perhaps have him play the material from the book that he wants you to learn, while you record him with audio or video. Let us know what happens.

hamishpink - Posted - 04/22/2013:  08:07:01

I'm with pretty much all of the views above. When I learned in the 60s on this side of the pond, the only book I could find available was Mel Bay's chord chart for G tuning. After that you were on your own - not even a mention of alternative tunings, rolls or right hand techniques. Admittedly info started to filter across some years later, but at the time there was no internet, no videos or DVDs, no tabs.

Tuition books are useful but they are not bibles. You can be selective, take what you want and ignore what you want, or use different tuition books to get a wider perspective on playing techniques. Where I refer to a tab I use it as a starting point and bend it to my own needs, but I never slavishly copy someone else's playing style.

loggerhead - Posted - 04/22/2013:  08:21:15

I think that different people learn in different ways. Some are visual learners, who can pick something up by reading from the printed page or by seeing it done. Others are aural learners, who can hear a lecture or hear a song, and that's enough. And still others are tactile learners, whose hands and fingers need to be physically engaged in order to get it. There may be more types, or combinations of these three, but I hope you can find a teacher who will take the cue from you and then, recognizing how you best learn, work with your strengths. But I think you will first have to help the teacher help you. I'm starting with a local teacher today, and this will be our first job--learning each other's strengths, and then working from those to get where I want to be. Good luck on your journey too!

Banjophobic - Posted - 04/22/2013:  08:21:34

Its also important to get feedback from your teacher, talk about things, in ways not covered by the book. Part of the process of taking lessons is having the critical ear of the teacher to asses the good and bad in your playing. While there are valuable things in the book, the focus on live instruction should be the live music and how it sounds. This is what Ira was talking about, and its vitally important. 

I guess my earlier comments could have been interpreted too harshly, so hopefully I'm making it softer here,haha. But I'll say again that if the lessons are just reading from 'the book', and see you next week, and this is all, you are missing out. 

ddmcflick - Posted - 04/22/2013:  09:10:06

I have to agree with Banjophobic. I am a newbie trying clawhammer, and I have dvd's, books, internet lessons, and youtube. I had a teacher in the beginning that I dropped because we took a book, I played through an exercise 3 times, then went on to the next. I did get some feedback, but I was bored out of my mind. So I have been bouncing around on my own, not really making any progress.

Yesterday I had a lesson with a "kid" who plays guitar, fiddle, and banjo. In 60 minutes I now know how to improve my left hand positioning, how to move my hand up the next more effectively, what I was doing wrong with my hammer ons, and pointers on how to learn more productively. So my advice would be to find a teacher if you have access to one. Even if you cannot afford weekly lessons, just to check in and refocus, or correct mistakes that you might not realize you are making.

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/22/2013:  09:11:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

Why does your teacher need to use someone else's book to 'teach'' banjo, and why are you paying someone else to read  it to you? I have never understood this, personally. Either you have formed a methodology and understand what it takes to play, and impart that to someone else (teach), or you haven't.  Many times there are 'banjo teacher's' in music stores that are a page or two ahead of the student-thats not what you should be paying for.

---

John, I understand your point -- especially as it relates to teachers who are learning as they go and are barely ahead of their students -- but I believe that it is traditional for teachers of any subject (not just music) to use published materials that present methods they like or believe are effective.  Isn't that what textbooks are?  Of course it's great when teachers have developed their own methods.  But I don't have a problem with a teacher teaching out of a book -- so long as the teacher understands what's not in the book so he or she can add insight to the material, answer the student's questions and go off-book when the student clearly needs something else.

Edited to add:  I belatedly read your follow-up in which you say things that pretty much agree with what I said. The book has its place.  But the book can't hear or see the student and offer guidance, correction and encouragement. Only the teacher can do that. Without the book.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 04/22/2013 09:15:49

DJBob - Posted - 04/22/2013:  09:17:33

In my teachers defense, he is a VERY good player. Actually one the best in my area and gets hired by a lot of local bands.

Don't get me wrong, I believe he is a very good teacher, I just don't like the book work.  But it must work for some students as he is always booked solid.

I equate the book to taking Algebra in high school.....It is boring as can be then I try to figure out where in real life that I will ever need it.

I know it is just my impatience because I like to see the fruits of my hard labor (*playing something that sounds like music*) rather than wait until all the components come together

Banjophobic - Posted - 04/22/2013:  09:19:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

 

quote:

---

John, I understand your point -- especially as it relates to teachers who are learning as they go and are barely ahead of their students -- but I believe that it is traditional for teachers of any subject (not just music) to use published materials that present methods they like or believe are effective.  Isn't that what textbooks are?  Of course it's great when teachers have developed their own methods.  But I don't have a problem with a teacher teaching out of a book -- so long as the teacher understands what's not in the book so he or she can add insight to the material, answer the student's questions and go off-book when the student clearly needs something else.

 

---

Yeah, that's why I made a second post. Im not against using materials from someone else, But many times it become a case of the 'teacher' not really knowing the material and being able to 'teach it', verses someone who can. We've all had 'book' teachers in school, verses the ones who could really 'teach'. Those teachers are the ones that had an intimate and intuitive grasp of the subject and who made learning fun ,and a personal experience of discovery.

An example of the bad teacher could come in the form of a banjo student asking the teacher a question that he/she isn't in the 'book'. The teacher could say "I dunno, lets see what the book says". If I'm paying for this teachers time and expertise, I want to hear what he/she knows. The book can't cover it all and at some point you'll know if the teacher is using the book the 'right' way, or  'the only way'. 

Rich Weill - Posted - 04/22/2013:  09:20:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJBob

Do I have to learn from a book? And would my teacher tell me to take a hike if I told him that I wasn't happy learning that way?

---

No, you don't have to learn from a book.  Lots of people don't learn from books.  Would your teacher tell you "to take a hike"?  Is he your only option as far as a teacher goes?  Most teachers I know are more concerned with you telling him "to take a hike" than the other way around.

But don't be overly resistant to the "soooo darn boring" stuff.  You need to develop so-called "muscle memory, and that takes repetition which can get tedious.  Your desire for results "right now" is understandable, but this is a process and some things take time.

Banjophobic - Posted - 04/22/2013:  09:24:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJBob

 

In my teachers defense, he is a VERY good player. Actually one the best in my area and gets hired by a lot of local bands.

Don't get me wrong, I believe he is a very good teacher, I just don't like the book work.  But it must work for some students as he is always booked solid.

I equate the book to taking Algebra in high school.....It is boring as can be then I try to figure out where in real life that I will ever need it.

I know it is just my impatience because I like to see the fruits of my hard labor (*playing something that sounds like music*) rather than wait until all the components come together

 

---

So what in particular from the 'book', don't you like? And how can the teacher make it more fun for you?

ddmcflick - Posted - 04/22/2013:  09:50:13

I also want to add, sometimes it is a matter of finding the right fit. My first teacher was well accomplished, had many students, played in numerous bands. However, his instruction methods were just very set in stone. My second teacher, although much younger and not as experienced, graduated from Berklee College of Music, plays in two local bands, and also gives lessons at our local music store. He is more receptive to mixing things up without neglecting the mundane "boring" stuff that is needed to build a foundation.

In the end, you are the consumer. So you should be able to find someone who will be able to accommodate your style of learning. I think this is very important, otherwise you will become frustrated, and either plateau, or even eventually quit. I know I have been close many times.

DJBob - Posted - 04/22/2013:  09:53:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

---

 

So what in particular from the 'book', don't you like? And how can the teacher make it more fun for you?

---

John, for example.... (as a newbie) Pick a roll, any roll... Play it over and over and over, for a week. Then for the next week, play the same roll only add some simple fingering, over and over and over.. By the 3rd week, you are bored to tears with that roll but you can play something that almost sounds like a song...Now if I want to progress farther, I have to learn to "read a tab" and "learn to play" it at the same time. Doing 2 things at once takes "ME" twice as long...

Now If I take a very simple forward roll and combine 2 of your LOTW's, in a days time, I can play something (might not be a real song) but even my wife will say "Wow! That sounds really good". Presto, fruits of my labor (and your's) that will make me tap my toe and feel like real progress.

Then all I have to do is to find a song at a local jam that I can work it into.

Banjophobic - Posted - 04/22/2013:  10:07:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJBob

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

---

 

So what in particular from the 'book', don't you like? And how can the teacher make it more fun for you?

---

John, for example.... (as a newbie) Pick a roll, any roll... Play it over and over and over, for a week. Then for the next week, play the same roll only add some simple fingering, over and over and over.. By the 3rd week, you are bored to tears with that roll but you can play something that almost sounds like a song...Now if I want to progress farther, I have to learn to "read a tab" and "learn to play" it at the same time. Doing 2 things at once takes "ME" twice as long...

Now If I take a very simple forward roll and combine 2 of your LOTW's, in a days time, I can play something (might not be a real song) but even my wife will say "Wow! That sounds really good". Presto, fruits of my labor (and your's) that will make me tap my toe and feel like real progress.

Then all I have to do is to find a song at a local jam that I can work it into.

---

I teach beginner's to play back-up first, so that they can start playing along with others asap. This only involves simple rolls over chords, vamping and then a few dedicated "Scruggs' back-up licks. If your goal is to ever jam with anyone, back-up is a must know (and to be a real player in my view). But even if you arent into jamming at this point, learning some of those things can mean being able to 'sound like' a banjo player asap. 

You can also 'fake' a solo/break by stringing together licks and rolls over the chord progression of songs, instead of  trying to play full blown melody solos. As you progress, you can learn to take more melodically accurate solos. 

If you arent learning back-up, tell your teacher you want to. It will teach you more about banjo playing than any memorized solo you'll ingest from tabs.

DJBob - Posted - 04/22/2013:  10:44:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic  

---

I teach beginner's to play back-up first, so that they can start playing along with others asap. This only involves simple rolls over chords, vamping and then a few dedicated "Scruggs' back-up licks. If your goal is to ever jam with anyone, back-up is a must know (and to be a real player in my view). But even if you arent into jamming at this point, learning some of those things can mean being able to 'sound like' a banjo player asap. 

You can also 'fake' a solo/break by stringing together licks and rolls over the chord progression of songs, instead of  trying to play full blown melody solos. As you progress, you can learn to take more melodically accurate solos. 

If you arent learning back-up, tell your teacher you want to. It will teach you more about banjo playing than any memorized solo you'll ingest from tabs.

---

Vamping is what I learned in the first couple of lessons and that was so I could sit right in at our jams. In the last 6 months, with help from you and other videos, I have learned to vamp up and down the neck with a few rolls and licks (that is what I was referring to in the other statement).

Vamping is 75% of what I do at jams along with taking the lead on the half dozen songs (and I currently go to about 12 jams a month). That is why I am considering more lessons so I don't pick up more bad habits as I progress...

But again, I dread going back to the book.

spittenkittens - Posted - 04/22/2013:  15:10:02

Also I want to add I learn from youtube and books. Books can point things I forget, like a roll has 8 notes. But the there are people like Rob Bourbassa here that have some excellent videos on how to play a few songs. Plus he spends a lot of time on REAL practicing. I wonder sometimes if I am practicing something enough. He is pretty good at his method I think. So I learn from books, and videos and what I can pick up here. Sometimes books are good because I need a little more structure. The main thing is just to keep trying and have a little fun too.

SWCooper - Posted - 04/22/2013:  15:38:27

I don't think there's any way to avoid practicing rolls. You sign on for this when you make that bluegrass pact with the devil: X years of your life will be spent on doing TIMTIMTM. I'd be amazed if the pros here don't still practice rolls for a while in each practice session. Earl did.

But if one roll is all you do for a week...yeesh! Yes, that would get old.

pickingfive - Posted - 04/22/2013:  19:45:55

Do I have to learn from a book?

No.  You can learn via the "by ear" method.  Some people are talented enough that they can learn to pick by just playing with the banjo, experimenting, and trying out different roll patterns.  Murphy Henry of "The Murphy Method" insists on using no tabs.  You can type her name into the search bar on YouTube and find some samples of what her "by ear" method is like.

Rick McKeon - Posted - 04/22/2013:  20:06:31

Bob,

Try some of my free lessons here: rickmckeon.com/banjolessons.html

and see how it works for you. I put these lessons up to try and make it easy and fun.

Rick

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 04/23/2013:  00:24:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJBob

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

---

 

So what in particular from the 'book', don't you like? And how can the teacher make it more fun for you?

---

John, for example.... (as a newbie) Pick a roll, any roll... Play it over and over and over, for a week. Then for the next week, play the same roll only add some simple fingering, over and over and over.. By the 3rd week, you are bored to tears with that roll but you can play something that almost sounds like a song...Now if I want to progress farther, I have to learn to "read a tab" and "learn to play" it at the same time. Doing 2 things at once takes "ME" twice as long...

Now If I take a very simple forward roll and combine 2 of your LOTW's, in a days time, I can play something (might not be a real song) but even my wife will say "Wow! That sounds really good". Presto, fruits of my labor (and your's) that will make me tap my toe and feel like real progress.

Then all I have to do is to find a song at a local jam that I can work it into.

---

 Hi Bob

I don't want to deviate too far from the main point of your discussion. But you mention practicing rolls as being boring.  I thought the same way you do. I found it hard to learn from TAB. So I used the Murphy Method to get started on the banjo.

The only lessons I had from a teacher was six rolls from Pete Wernick's beginners book. I have to say that was the most valued lesson he taught me. In the beginning YES it was really boring, sitting listening to the click of the metronome. But the more I practiced the better I got. I started linking two different rolls then three all they way up to six playing continuously until I could do it on autopilot. It may sound simple but it is quite a challenge at 70 bpm.

You might ask what is the point of all this roll practice. Well when you play Scruggs Style licks your constantly changing roll patterns, They need to be really smooth and they just happen to be those six roll patterns. If you learn to master all six rolls  all you have left to think about is what your fretting hand is doing.

Some might disagree with me but my advise would be whatever you do don't stop practicing rolls.  15 minutes warm up is what I aim for. That's six rolls played continuously with changes for 15 minutes.

When you can do this you can incorporate chords, add slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs then full blown licks.

cbskibum - Posted - 04/23/2013:  01:55:28

Bob,

It sounds like you learn better from watching and listening and it sounds like you are lucky enough to have a great player as a teacher and you learn better from watching videos. What if you ask your teacher to record your lessons via video, and before it is over you ask him to play for you what he wants you to learn "out of the book" for the last lesson and you record him playing it?

That way you'll have the visual aid, the book for when you forget and you will also get the feedback from the live instructor when you play it back for him the next lesson. My teacher encouraged me to video our lessons.

I worked out of The Complete book for a long time alone. There are some great ideas in there...I wish I had an instructor at the time to clarify and explain some of the ideas. You are pretty lucky

ironhead - Posted - 04/23/2013:  07:18:43

Tam, What are the six rolls you practice? Good information for new players for sure.

spittenkittens - Posted - 04/23/2013:  07:24:08

Rick's web page were some of the first I used and still do. He is easy to understand and understands beginners problems. One problem about not learning tabs(It is not that hard, I am slow but can do it) is how are you going to learn a tune you have but can't read read it? I am looking at several versions of wildwood flower. It wood be great if someone could play each and I can pick, but that is not going to happen so I need to learn tabs if I want to learn them.

maryzcox - Posted - 04/23/2013:  07:30:41

Try that DVD by Jens Kruger--its only $25 and he plays along with his brother on guitar and a bass player.  You can just sit there and play along by ear and you will learn alot. 

If you load it up on your big screen--its kind of like playing with holograms that are live--except you don't have to feed them dinner and drinks afterwards :)

Best wishes,

Mary Z Cox

maryzcox.com

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 04/24/2013:  00:33:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by ironhead

 

Tam, What are the six rolls you practice? Good information for new players for sure.

---

Most of this information can be found with a quick Google search.

Here is a website that lists them and a few more variations besides. Play them slowly and cleanly.

elfshot.com/banjo/rolls.htm

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 04/24/2013:  00:59:46

Also check out Geoff Hohwald's Chords Rhythm and Back Up Lesson Series. This is a "Must Have" tutorial for all beginners. Mix this in with any other teaching aid you use and it will unlock a lot of mysteries for you.  

But remember these are worthless tools if you don't practice. A teacher may be able to teach a subject but that doesn't mean you'll will learn what is being taught to you. YOU  have to put in the study, practice and effort in order to see progress.

Remember this:

Schools, Colleges, and Univ's have the best educators but there are still students who flunk out. 

You can have the best banjo teacher there is and still not advance. YOU control your study, you control your practice sessions, you control your motivation... If you flunk out it's not the teacher or the teaching process that has failed you.

You control your study.    

Edited by - Tam_Zeb on 04/24/2013 01:13:17

diagonally - Posted - 04/24/2013:  08:18:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJBob

 

When I first started playing I took about 10 or 12 lessons from a really good banjo instructor who had me use Tony Trischka's complete book.

The book is a great tool and full of information but to be perfectly honest if the book was the only tool I had, I would have given up by now.

I would study the book for a day or so then run to YouTube to try and pickup a song or something that I could be shown and use "right now" as opposed to sitting back and practicing a roll or trying to figure out how to read a tab. I know tab reading and practicing rolls are necessary but they are soooo darn boring! It takes me hours to learn a song from tab but pick it right up when shown or able to watch.

I am just about back in a position where I can take a few more lessons but Lord have mercy, I am dreading going back to the book.

Do I have to learn from a book? And would my teacher tell me to take a hike if I told him that I wasn't happy learning that way?

---

I'm trying to figure out what it is you dislike? Is it learning to play a song from the score? Having t to read TAB /  standard notation? Or is  following a prescribed lesson plan or method?

banjerman - Posted - 05/14/2013:  10:06:37

   Sounds like boredom is your main thing with books. Books only present ideas. That all they do. So try and remember most books will be teaching you something you will be doing many times over. Id say you need to "noodle". Try all the ideas you have learned everywhere on the neck you can. That will open up the world.

Wally

MOUNTAIN GOAT - Posted - 05/30/2013:  18:54:35

We all learn differently. A great picker or great racer, doesn't mean they are good at teaching that skill. A great teacher has a different gift, and you have to find one with that gift that matches how you learn. If not, it ain't gunna work. This web site has been an unimaginable learning tool, even though I don't agree with everything or everybody. So far, each tab, each book, many threads and phone calls have all been steps in the journey. I bet this has taken years off my learning curve.

stetix01 - Posted - 05/31/2013:  03:28:46

I learned from Earl's book.

Far as I know, he wasn't available for lessons.

leemond2008 - Posted - 06/01/2013:  01:01:33

I'm not a fan of the youtube videos to be honest.
When I was learning to play guitar (about 16 years ago) there was no youtube and I had the crappiest book that you could wish for, I used that book to teach me the very basics and used it to learn chords and that was it, everything else I picked up through learning tab and teaching myself.
When I got my keyboard (just over 12 months ago) I tried learning via youtube and in a way it was too easy, the videos teach you the pretty top layer that sounds good but you end up learning that and not the ugly bits underneath that make the song up (if that makes sense) its as if they teach you songs but not how to play.

Now I am learning the banjo I have a bog standard book that I often go back and refer to for a while (only normally 1/2 hour a day) and then I play and mess about and kind of teach myself, I dont look at the youtube videos very often at all.

It really is just a case of preference.

Oh and most of the tips I have picked up have been from these very forums

Jim Yates - Posted - 06/01/2013:  06:08:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJBob

 

When I first started playing I took about 10 or 12 lessons from a really good banjo instructor who had me use Tony Trischka's complete book.

The book is a great tool and full of information but to be perfectly honest if the book was the only tool I had, I would have given up by now.

I would study the book for a day or so then run to YouTube to try and pickup a song or something that I could be shown and use "right now" as opposed to sitting back and practicing a roll or trying to figure out how to read a tab. I know tab reading and practicing rolls are necessary but they are soooo darn boring! It takes me hours to learn a song from tab but pick it right up when shown or able to watch.

I am just about back in a position where I can take a few more lessons but Lord have mercy, I am dreading going back to the book.

Do I have to learn from a book? And would my teacher tell me to take a hike if I told him that I wasn't happy learning that way?

---

Why does your teacher need to use someone else's book to 'teach'' banjo, and why are you paying someone else to read  it to you? I have never understood this, personally. Either you have formed a methodology and understand what it takes to play, and impart that to someone else (teach), or you haven't.  Many times there are 'banjo teacher's' in music stores that are a page or two ahead of the student-thats not what you should be paying for.

This is akin to going to a class about car racing and having a 'race car teacher'  read from Jeff Gordon's book about racing. Why not ask if the teacher knows how to race a car and then tell you how they did it and how they will help you do it. If they don't have any  personal experience or simply cant tell you how in a way that connects, well, thats a problem. 

---

I have mixed feelings about this. 

I once took a course in economics taught by two profs.  The macro economics prof had no pedagogical skills and essentially just read from his notes.  He would occasionally ask questions, but would always answer them himself.  I felt like I could have learned better by just reading his notes myself, on my own time. 

The micro economics guy was the complete opposite.  There was lots of interaction and discussion during the class that I'd never have received if I'd tried to teach myself.  My marks in micro were far higher than my marks in macro.  Both profs used a text, but the classes were very different.

I taught school for thirty some years and much of the material came from books that were written by someone else.  I certainly didn't just read the books to the students.  I took piano accordion lessons as a child and had two fine teachers who both used books, written by someone else, on which to base their teaching.

I agree that if the teacher simply reads the book to you, you might as well read it yourself and save some money, but it's certainly possible to have a teacher who uses a book and does a great job of teaching.  There's a lot of stuff that's not necessarily in "the book".

Jim Yates - Posted - 06/01/2013:  06:19:11

  There are some things that are hard to put into words and I'd sometimes have students say, "I forgot how that was supposed to sound when I got home," so I used to encourage students to bring a cassette to their lessons.  The cassette player still sits in the corner of my teaching room at the music store, but these days most of my students have phones that will record a sound video and that's what we use. 

A27StarWolf - Posted - 06/01/2013:  08:21:38

Bob you should give Rick's lessons a try!

Thanks to his lessons I picked up my first two songs, Cripple Creek, and Clinch Mountain Backstep, and he has tab and video options, for someone who can't pay for lessons its a great alternative to a book. 

Banjopilot - Posted - 06/05/2013:  13:28:21

In another topic, I got the idea to give some reviews on a dozen Gospel tab books I've collected. I will get that done this week as it follows the tract I have been on for eight plus years now. The most recent book is Eddie Collins "Forty Gospel Greats for Banjo". It is geared for the intermediate player and comes thru with some challenging songs many have asked about.
There are a couple of books that I think are fantastic..if you can find them. "America's Music: Bluegrass" by Barry R. Willis is available on Amazon as of today for as little as fifty dollars. It starts with the Roots of Bluegrass and covers the pioneers and on through 1989's first publishing. I am going for the third time through and I will not be bored. Incredible effort, get it now. It is not available on a regular basis!
"Gestalt Banjo" by Paul Hawthorne is a sought after book, just last week one was wanted on BHO and price was not a given factor. I'm going to read it again and see if I can benefit at this point in my playing. It was too deep ended years ago when I bought it, just starting out. Then I'm going to answer one of those "price not a factor" want' to buy ads!
{I learned by the Murphy Method thru to the advanced material; did I write down the numbers as the video, not DVD, was playing ? You bet. Sorry Murph. Big dumb guy gott'a do what got to do.} Please don't flood my BHO address with offers for "Gestalt". It may take time for me to "get it"!