Porschefan - Posted - 04/01/2013:  17:26:56

I'm not sure whether to post this as a continuation to my original thread  or just start this new one?    What's the best?

I ran across this 1996 Maple Blossom  on e-Bay.    From what research I've done and what the seller says it doesn't have the 06 tone ring, and it may even have the older pressed-fit tone ring.    Wondering whether this is something worth pursuing?   Or just stick with finding a late-model Sierra?   I know it's not a great idea to buy something that you haven't seen or heard, but I may have to go that route at some point.

TIA for any input.

STP

kmwaters - Posted - 04/01/2013:  17:38:12

You are on the right track with this one. Excellent banjo and an interesting price point right now. MSRP around 4k, and an agressive dealer could be at 3k but that is a stretch. One owner, lightly played - sounds very good. And no parts have been swapped out for parts unknown. I would watch this closely if I were you and jump in when it makes sense. I know sometimes it's the luck of the mouse click at the end which is the pits. Good luck.

Porschefan - Posted - 04/01/2013:  19:23:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by kmwaters

 

You are on the right track with this one. Excellent banjo and an interesting price point right now. MSRP around 4k, and an agressive dealer could be at 3k but that is a stretch. One owner, lightly played - sounds very good. And no parts have been swapped out for parts unknown. I would watch this closely if I were you and jump in when it makes sense. I know sometimes it's the luck of the mouse click at the end which is the pits. Good luck.

---

Hi Ken,

Yeah this one is tempting.   I've got a message into Deering to find out how much an 06 tone ring upgrade would be if I wanted to do that at some point.  It's a real pretty instrument IMO also.   

I'm also tempted by a brand-new Sierra for $1,800 although that's a LOT more than I intended spending when I started out.

Best,

STP

Porschefan - Posted - 04/01/2013:  20:19:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by kmwaters

 

You are on the right track with this one. Excellent banjo and an interesting price point right now. MSRP around 4k, and an agressive dealer could be at 3k but that is a stretch. One owner, lightly played - sounds very good. And no parts have been swapped out for parts unknown. I would watch this closely if I were you and jump in when it makes sense. I know sometimes it's the luck of the mouse click at the end which is the pits. Good luck.

---

Ken,

Auction closes at around noon tomorrow.   One bid @ $1,200 now.   Care to hazard a suggestion about an upper limit on this would be as a "no-brainer"?   Or is it already beyond that?

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/01/2013:  21:16:46

Banjohut sells this new for $3279.  So that's as good a gauge as any for current street price.  Half that would be $1640. I think that's a good target price for used. Anything below that could be considered a really good deal. Whether that's the highest you should go only you can say.  There's an 86 in the Hangout Classifieds for $1750 and an 03 for $2,500 (too much, I think).

Let those help you determine what's a reasonable price.

If you decide you want to go for the one on eBay do this:  Determine your maximum price and enter that as your bid. It will either be high enough or it won't.  The bid will either hold up or it won't.  But if you win, you won't pay any more than you've already determined is the highest you'll go.  And remember, if the current high bidder's secret maximum bid is higher than the price you bid, you'll be instantly outbid and you won;t get the banjo anyway.

Good luck.

DeanT - Posted - 04/01/2013:  23:53:39

My Calico has an old solid ring. I've played the new rings at our local Deering dealer, and don't know what the big deal is. I wouldn't trade my old ring for a new one. And that's mainly because my banjo is set up the way I want it, and the store models aren't. In other words... the banjo's set up trumps the ring. I'm betting the 20 hole 06 ring hype is a marketing tactic, much like new model cars. As for it being pressed on, if that bugs you, have the folks in the set-up and repair section guide you on how to remove the ring, and sand the rim for a slip fit. If I was starting out again, I would buy an older model Sierra, and probably still be playing it. I've seen one as cheap as $834 (new old stock) at our local Guitar Center. They come up every now and then in the classifieds here under $1K, but get snatched up real quick.

country frank - Posted - 04/02/2013:  04:19:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeanT

 

I've played the new rings at our local Deering dealer, and don't know what the big deal is. I wouldn't trade my old ring for a new one. 

In other words... the banjo's set up trumps the ring. I'm betting the 20 hole 06 ring hype is a marketing tactic, much like new model cars.

As for it being pressed on, if that bugs you, have the folks in the set-up and repair section guide you on how to remove the ring, and sand the rim for a slip fit.

---

Exactly right there Dean, in every respect. I am using my Deering no-hole ring in an RK at the moment and loving that particular configuration.

grm405 - Posted - 04/02/2013:  07:26:44

That is a good price.  I doubt that the cost of the new ring would in any way be worth it, considering Deering parts prices.  Not even sure it would fit without lathe work anyway.  You can remove and loosen up the old ring in an hour or so.  There a lots of threads on this in the archives, including how to get the old ring off (Frying pan is likely the safest).

I will admit to being an ebay "sniper".  Works more often than not.  I put my only bid in with maybe 5 seconds left in the auction, so any other bidder has no time to raise his maximum in response, assuming my max is higher than his.  I also put in an odd number, like $1-2 more than the minimum increment.  A lot of people tend to put a max at the increments, ie. I recently got my Tubaphone pot at $561, since the other bidder had obviously put $560 as his max.

Gerry

kmwaters - Posted - 04/02/2013:  12:14:13

I see it went for 1652.77. Did you get it? Good buy. Hope so.

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/02/2013:  14:08:09

quote:

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Originally posted by kmwaters

I see it went for 1652.77. Did you get it? Good buy. Hope so.

---

Just $13 over 50% of the Banjohout discount price on a new one -- right what I said would be a target price for used!

Establishes a reasonable offer to make on the 86 that's in the Classifieds for $1750 -- the seller only has to accept $100 less than he's asking.  And it makes that 03 for $2500 really seem over-priced.  If it were newer and had the newest tone ring, it might be worth a bit more than older used ones.  The seller of the 03 is so far removed from the sales price on the one that just went on eBay that it's hard to suggest what kind of offer to make there.

Porschefan - Posted - 04/02/2013:  15:05:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by kmwaters

 

I see it went for 1652.77. Did you get it? Good buy. Hope so.

---

Hi Ken (and all),

Well, I watched the auction go up to $1,652 and didn't pull the trigger.   I had some correspondence with the seller last night and he definitely seemed trustworthy and the banjo as described.   By the time I got to the computer this AM and saw the bid, I decided it was more than I wanted to pay.   Perhaps a newbie mistake, but the ship has sailed.

Last night I did a search of the classifieds and looked at all the Maple Blossoms that had sold and were still on record.   I got the data below, sorted on price then year produced (where available).  

Dates are missing in the BHO listings, so I don't know how far back these go.   When I saw the 2008 for $1,500 and the 2009 for $1,695 I thought that I didn't want to go more than $1,300 for the one on eBay.  I think the eBay example is probably about where the market is at and I think it was a pretty good buy.    I don't know what the chances of another 2008-09 model coming up for $1,700 are.   And frankly I don't even know whether a 2009 is a better BANJO than one of the older ones.

Thanks for the pointers on not worrying about the "old" tone ring, pressed fit or not.    I have a little bit of "the one that got away feeling," but not too much.   Another bunch of data points and a good learning experience.    My sweet spots are highlighted in red.

BTW, I found a seller who has a 2012 Sierra that he'll sell for $1,700 out the door.   That's kind of tempting, but now I'm wondering if I'm willing to pay that should I wait for another great deal on a something even nicer?

Edited by - Porschefan on 04/02/2013 15:11:56

Porschefan - Posted - 04/02/2013:  15:24:46

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by kmwaters

I see it went for 1652.77. Did you get it? Good buy. Hope so.

---

Just $13 over 50% of the Banjohout discount price on a new one -- right what I said would be a target price for used!

Establishes a reasonable offer to make on the 86 that's in the Classifieds for $1750 -- the seller only has to accept $100 less than he's asking.  And it makes that 03 for $2500 really seem over-priced.  If it were newer and had the newest tone ring, it might be worth a bit more than older used ones.  The seller of the 03 is so far removed from the sales price on the one that just went on eBay that it's hard to suggest what kind of offer to make there.

---

Yep.   You nailed it! 

STP

BlueRanchRider - Posted - 04/02/2013:  16:10:32

If the Sierra is used, hold off for that price.  I've received quotes for new ones less than 1750

Porschefan - Posted - 04/02/2013:  16:15:03

quote:

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Originally posted by BlueRanchRider

 

If the Sierra is used, hold off for that price.  I've received quotes for new ones less than 1750

 

---

It's new, but not in the hands of an authorized dealer, which makes it used in Deering's eyes.    I'm going to keep on looking.

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/02/2013:  16:21:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlueRanchRider

If the Sierra is used, hold off for that price.  I've received quotes for new ones less than 1750

---

There's a music store in Alexandria, Virginia, that's not quite meeting that price, but they're below $1800 -- about 35% off the $$2749 list.  I think shipped they're still below $1840.  Most places seem to discount around 25%.  Pretty sure 35% off list for new is about the best you can do on musical instruments.

But if I were going to spend that kind of money on a Deering, I'd go for the used Maple Blossom over the new Sierra.  Just my preference.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 04/02/2013 16:22:19

Porschefan - Posted - 04/02/2013:  16:35:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlueRanchRider

If the Sierra is used, hold off for that price.  I've received quotes for new ones less than 1750

---

There's a music store in Alexandria, Virginia, that's not quite meeting that price, but they're below $1800 -- about 35% off the $$2749 list.  I think shipped they're still below $1840.  Most places seem to discount around 25%.  Pretty sure 35% off list for new is about the best you can do on musical instruments.

But if I were going to spend that kind of money on a Deering, I'd go for the used Maple Blossom over the new Sierra.  Just my preference.

---

Hi Ken,

Yes--that's Alexandria Music.   Best deal on an authorized new one.   No case though.    Now that I see there are used Maple Blossoms (and probably others) out there in that price range, I'm inclined to keep looking.    Either a sub-$1K Sierra will show up, or something else.   I think I've stretched my budget reality to about $2K, but that would be for a great deal on something really nice.    The hunt is half the fun.

According to Deering, the pots on the Sierra's are EXACTLY the same as most of the higher-end models, but I don't know how far back that parallel goes.   And, I'm not sure it matters since the feedback here has been a nice Maple Blossom of any vintage would be a fine banjo.

country frank - Posted - 04/03/2013:  02:21:51

Hold out for used regardless IMO, yes the pots are exactly the same all the way up the Deering line but i would question that to an extent.



I bought a used [2003] maple blossom [with custom extras, radius neck, D tuners and a near flat back reso] off a very respected HO member for $1100, its a beautiful banjo and i have been totally happy with it for the past 6+ years. Like Dean said earlier, the new 06 ring is probably overated and most likely in time people will want the old ring [thats been in the Deering line since the early 80s].



Good luck, buy used.

Edited by - country frank on 04/03/2013 02:22:51

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/03/2013:  06:38:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by Porschefan

Yes--that's Alexandria Music.   Best deal on an authorized new one.   No case though.   

According to Deering, the pots on the Sierra's are EXACTLY the same as most of the higher-end models, but I don't know how far back that parallel goes.   And, I'm not sure it matters since the feedback here has been a nice Maple Blossom of any vintage would be a fine banjo.

---

I did not know that was a price without a case.  Strange.  Because I'm sure that Deering ships that banjo in a case and it's supposed to come with a case.  I suppose a merchant is free to break those apart -- but I'm pretty sure that the merchant does not pay separately for the case.

As to the SIerra having the same pot as most of the higher-end Deerings, I'm pretty sure that's always been the case. The ring and rim  in any model-year Sierra represents Deering's standard for that year.  Deering identifies the few banjos that have a different ring or flange.  I think they all have the same 3-ply rim.

If you've stretched your budget to $2,000, then you can consider the Bishline Cimarron or the AMB Kel Kroydon KK-250 or KK-3.

You might have to wait a while for the next sub-$1000 Sierra to show up. But that would be a good price.

Happy shopping.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 04/03/2013 06:40:13

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/03/2013:  10:56:59

Follow-up:  I looked at the eBay auction from Alexandria Music and their description says: "Deering includes a $180-value case with your Sierra Banjo."

The 1996 Deluxe for $1000 in the Classifieds is as good a deal as an older Sierra for that same price.  The older Deluxes aren't as "deluxe" as the newer ones.  They've got simple snowflake inlays as opposed to the fancier white and gold pearl of the current ones. They do, however, have a gloss finish vs the Sierra's matte/flat.  So if you prefer gloss and don't want to spend a lot, this is a good deal on relatively plain looking banjo.

Porschefan - Posted - 04/03/2013:  11:20:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by country frank

 

Hold out for used regardless IMO, yes the pots are exactly the same all the way up the Deering line but i would question that to an extent.



I bought a used [2003] maple blossom [with custom extras, radius neck, D tuners and a near flat back reso] off a very respected HO member for $1100, its a beautiful banjo and i have been totally happy with it for the past 6+ years. Like Dean said earlier, the new 06 ring is probably overated and most likely in time people will want the old ring [thats been in the Deering line since the early 80s].



Good luck, buy used.

---

Hi Frank,

Used is my inclination at this point.  You got a GREAT deal and if something like that showed up today I'd snap it up.   With a radiused fingerboard to boot!   As a complete newb I'm totally unqualified to have much of an opinion, but the idea of a radiused (and a tad wider) fingerboard appeals to me for some reason.

STP

Porschefan - Posted - 04/03/2013:  11:34:25

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Porschefan

Yes--that's Alexandria Music.   Best deal on an authorized new one.   No case though.   

According to Deering, the pots on the Sierra's are EXACTLY the same as most of the higher-end models, but I don't know how far back that parallel goes.   And, I'm not sure it matters since the feedback here has been a nice Maple Blossom of any vintage would be a fine banjo.

---

I did not know that was a price without a case.  Strange.  Because I'm sure that Deering ships that banjo in a case and it's supposed to come with a case.  I suppose a merchant is free to break those apart -- but I'm pretty sure that the merchant does not pay separately for the case.

As to the SIerra having the same pot as most of the higher-end Deerings, I'm pretty sure that's always been the case. The ring and rim  in any model-year Sierra represents Deering's standard for that year.  Deering identifies the few banjos that have a different ring or flange.  I think they all have the same 3-ply rim.

If you've stretched your budget to $2,000, then you can consider the Bishline Cimarron or the AMB Kel Kroydon KK-250 or KK-3.

You might have to wait a while for the next sub-$1000 Sierra to show up. But that would be a good price.

Happy shopping.

---

Hi Ken,

RE the case question--I see your next post about a case being mentioned.   That copy is straight from Deering, so I can't say for sure whether it applied to this one or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.  Someone already jumped on that one as it's marked SOLD at this point.

Funny you should mention the Bishline Cimarron.    I've been looking at that one--although their really isn't much of a used market, the new ones are priced close to the (discounted) Sierra's.    I've listened to a few web videos of them and that's a very limiting way to assess.   But, based on the videos the Sierras appeal to me more.    The Bishline is certainly a beauty though.     The good news is that I finally hear back from our local banjo entrepreneur (Banjo Bob's in Cedar Crest, NM).    Apparently his website contact form hasn't been working, but I finally reached him.   He's an authorized dealer for Deering, Bishline, Stelling and others.   I'm not sure what he has in stock, but I'm heading out there later to see what I can learn.

Anecdotes like Frank's keep me leaning toward waiting patiently for something outstanding on the used market, with maybe a Goodtime to start with, but you never know when something you really like shows up.   That's happened to me a few times in the guitar world--I remember moving heaven and earth when, as a BROKE kid, a 1948 Martin 000-28 showed up and I had to have it!

Thanks for all the great input.

STP

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/03/2013:  17:40:27

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RE the case question--I see your next post about a case being mentioned.   That copy is straight from Deering, so I can't say for sure whether it applied to this one or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. 

Well, regardless of whether the text came straight from Deering (and of course it did) it appeared in the seller's ad, which therefore is the seller saying that the banjo comes with a case.

Since the banjo is sold, this is all academic.

But if repeats an ad like that and you want the banjo, I'd call him on it -- and complain to eBay if he doesn't want to include the case that the =ad says is included. 

T-18 - Posted - 04/04/2013:  09:32:13

@Porschefan

RE: (Banjo Bob's in Cedar Crest, NM)

I used to pass that place on the way to ski at Sandia. Didn't look like much from the road and I didn't play banjo then so I never stopped. I have so many fond memories of living in New Mexico.

Be sure to post about your visit there when you get a chance.