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rudy - Posted - 02/14/2013: 12:06:43
Here’s a fifth string capo that you might find interesting. I knocked it out to check the feasibility of a capo designed for those who do not fret the fifth string and it works surprisingly well.
It’s made from a 1-1/4” long piece of 1/4” wide brass tapered to a point and has a simple .015” slot on the back side. The front side tapers down to about 1/16” and the back (facing the string tunnel here) needs to be a bit higher, this one is a little over 1/8”. The bottom has a small saddle filed into it so it will sit directly over any fret and it’s quick and easy to lift it up and slide it to any desired capo position. The slot keeps the capo centered and the front of the slot breaks cleanly so there is no string buzz or rattle.
banjo-joe - Posted - 02/14/2013: 12:12:15
WT! 
Now ain't that neater than a snuff bucket
Banjo Bob Anderson - Posted - 02/14/2013: 12:17:07
Cool!! I love it when people innovate!! How is it doing?? I have one banjo where I need something--gonna sell some prototypes, or want some collaborator/beta testers??
banjo bob anderson
bob
Gus Bloch - Posted - 02/14/2013: 12:21:50
I'd register it with the patent office-today, we're I you.
blockader - Posted - 02/14/2013: 12:26:17
Pretty cool! Why does it preclude fretting the fifth string?
rudy - Posted - 02/14/2013: 12:42:26
quote:
Originally posted by blockader
Pretty cool! Why does it preclude fretting the fifth string?
It holds the string at a higher elevation than if it were resting on a fret, actually about the height of the other four strings. That would make fretting difficult, but you can lift the string and slide it out any time you want to revert to playing the string.
It works really well, but it does count on string pressure to hold it in place, so you would need to make it to suit your particular banjo's fifth string height. This particular banjo has the fifth starting at the sixth fret, so it's actually straddling the seventh. The normal configuration would really work well for leaving it over the sixth and dropping the string pitch down a half step. From that point on it's a simple matter of grabbing it between finger and thumb to lift and slide it.
gottasmilealot - Posted - 02/14/2013: 13:33:58
Do you find you can leave it on the fifth string while in the case and not have it fall off? I think it's a great idea. Nice job!
rgoad - Posted - 02/14/2013: 13:49:39
That is very cool! Have you tried clawhammer style? I ask because I sometimes really pluck 5th string hard and wonder if it would buzz or split out. If not, I'd buy one from you.
ABK - Posted - 02/14/2013: 13:58:41
Proof that the simplest ideas are usually the best! I would imagine that one would still need to tune the 5th a bit to compensate for the greater tension on the string, but that's typically the case with spikes and sliders. I'm also curious if it hold while being hit hard a la claw etc..
Really cool idea.
steve davis - Posted - 02/14/2013: 14:05:14
That's a great idea.It looks like it belongs there.
dobroman - Posted - 02/14/2013: 14:38:25
I'll buy one!! I already have spikes, but if that will stay in place, it might be better.
rudy - Posted - 02/14/2013: 14:57:11
quote:
Originally posted by gottasmilealot
Do you find you can leave it on the fifth string while in the case and not have it fall off? I think it's a great idea. Nice job!
It's held rock solid under the string, you'd be hard pressed to accidentally dislodge it. The larger risk would be losing it if you broke a fifth, but I find my fifth strings usually only break when I'm changing the pitch substantially, so this type of "capo" shouldn't have to be chased very often due to string breakage.
I use thumb and index finger picks and sometimes bare finger,too. My playing style really isn't claw hammer, but I haven't dislodged it with reasonably hard thumb hits yet. I am going to experiment a bit with additional height and also a shorter version. The leg length isn't any problem as long as it fits between the narrower spacing between frets, although it probably doesn't need to be as long as it is presently.
You need to have it tall enough so string pressure is sufficient as its moved up the neck. It's certainly functional up to the 12th, but I'm still going to try a bit more height to increase down force up that high. I occasionally go up to 9, but I wouldn't use it up any higher than that normally.
It's more of an exercise in creativity for me at present because I'm short on ability to do much in the shop due to a pulverized (yes, that's the orthopedic specialist's official term...) left clavicle (shoulder) as a result of combining a way-over-exuberant black lab with a tennis ball, me trying to hold on to a flexi lead while running full speed behind said dog, and a rather unfortunate meeting of frozen ground with ribs and shoulder. I was unaware that you could produce enough deep purple bruising to obscure a full 50% of chest. The result of all this is I can only work in very short sessions before it becomes too painful. I'm coming up on a month and it's very slowly getting better. Sadly, I've had to cancel gigs with the bands I play in for the foreseeable future.
In the meantime I'll work a bit more on the concept here since it's got a surprising amount of response. Thanks for the interest, my main objective is to stimulate a few of you into making your own. It's quite easy... even with about 5% of arm and shoulder ability!
Edited by - rudy on 02/14/2013 15:22:48
mike gregory - Posted - 02/14/2013: 15:34:54
Looks like we have a winner!
I'll have to go steal a doorknob or a coffin handle or something brass, grind it to fit.
banjo bill-e - Posted - 02/14/2013: 15:41:38
I'd buy that! Great idea.
Helix - Posted - 02/14/2013: 16:01:08
Working simple is hard, very well done.
Dan Drabek - Posted - 02/14/2013: 16:07:35
Yankee ingenuity. I like it!
DD
MOUNTAIN GOAT - Posted - 02/14/2013: 16:18:35
Since it raises the string up so much, I would think you have to re tune each time you move it. In addition, it would be more difficult to fret further up. Once you make it public, like you did here, you can't patent it. It would not be too difficult to redesign, to fix the bad parts and make it work really well. These things are always an evolution of design. Keep going.
rudy - Posted - 02/14/2013: 17:38:24
quote:
Originally posted by MOUNTAIN GOAT
Since it raises the string up so much, I would think you have to re tune each time you move it. In addition, it would be more difficult to fret further up. Once you make it public, like you did here, you can't patent it. It would not be too difficult to redesign, to fix the bad parts and make it work really well. These things are always an evolution of design. Keep going.
Mountain, Here's the second line of the initial post:
"I knocked it out to check the feasibility of a capo designed for those who do not fret the fifth string and it works surprisingly well."
Since the tension doesn't vary much from one fret to the next only minimal tough-up tuning is required, the same as spikes, a bar capo, or anything else that effects string tensioning. Can it be improved? Sure, as I inferred from my comments.
If you have a banjo and a bit of time you can do this yourself, we don't need no stinkin' holes in our banjos!
I've been told by a patent attorney in the past that under the law you have 1 year to file for patent after declaring a public proclamation. An acceptable means of public proclamation that has a legally defendable date stamp actually proves the authorship of an idea if someone attempts to patent within that year. Someone else can apply for a patent, but the originator of the idea can then sue for compensatory damages. It really comes down to the legal process and who can present the most convincing argument to a jury should an issue ever go that far.
Patenting is not an issue here though, as my reason for putting it out here is that someone else might benefit from anything that I might humbly offer. Mechanical patents have very little effect on anyone else who chooses to bypass the process. Patents are like locks; they are meant to keep honest people honest.
atracksler - Posted - 02/14/2013: 17:48:18
I love it!!!
Dave1climber - Posted - 02/14/2013: 18:12:22
Very clever, one can never tell what idle hands will come up with!! 
vlawson - Posted - 02/14/2013: 18:13:05
Looks cool. Like the banjo came with it.
vlawson - Posted - 02/14/2013: 18:17:10
You could make those out of different materials too change the tone of the string . Like pearl or ebony.the choices are endless.
rudy - Posted - 02/14/2013: 18:58:00
quote:
Originally posted by vlawson
You could make those out of different materials too change the tone of the string . Like pearl or ebony.the choices are endless.
That's a good idea to try out, too. Any of us that are involved in the business of wood butchery always have tons of scrap pieces that are too big to toss but not usually big enough to use.
ten_thumbs - Posted - 02/15/2013: 03:51:51
How about a piece of bone or deer antler?
bvh - Posted - 02/15/2013: 05:12:30
Rudy........You've got to be one of the best, outside of the box thinkers, that I've ever seen, even though I've never seen you.
bvh
Dean-O-Craft - Posted - 02/15/2013: 05:48:34
Very nice! I love the idea. Good luck with the shoulder and marketing efforts!
Dean
rudy - Posted - 02/15/2013: 06:00:03
quote:
Originally posted by Dean-O-Craft
Very nice! I love the idea. Good luck with the shoulder and marketing efforts!
Dean
Thanks Dean.
Maybe I'll get more shop time when I'm in less pain. I'm not particularly interested in marketing them, just wanted to pass on a neat idea on to my banjo buddies!
country frank - Posted - 02/15/2013: 06:10:09
That is such a neat and tidy solution, I love it!
Very good work Rudy and thanks for posting/sharing it.
Jonnycake White - Posted - 02/15/2013: 10:51:50
Good looking as always, Randy. Sorry to hear about the shoulder. Old men like us shouldn't play with overgrown puppy dogs. A nice lap dog, yeah, that's the ticket.
picker5 - Posted - 02/16/2013: 05:45:37
Very simple, very cool! Another one of those " Now why didn't I think of that??" kind of things. Why not make it out of the same wood as the top of one's bridge, rather than brass? If the brass. were to make some kind of tonal difference, which I doubt, that should cure it.
darels - Posted - 02/16/2013: 20:45:47
I'm guessing we'd want to use something similar to the fret material on the existing 5th string fret, so brass or nickel, to retain the same sound. OTOH, why not try wood, bone, ivory, etc? This seems like a great idea, and I'm sure many of us wood butchers are already scheming to try it out (what did I do with those brass scraps from the knife bolsters? Here somewhere...). If OP ever does patent and market it, I'll be in line to buy one.
Mike Casey - Posted - 02/17/2013: 05:39:23
I'd buy two. I'd want a spare. You might try marketing the idea to an existing company that makes a regular banjo/guitar capo, but not a fifth string capo.
rudy - Posted - 02/17/2013: 08:26:35
A brief update: I did do a bit of further experimenting, so I just wanted to pass on a bit of further information in case anyone wants to try out the concept.
First, although it works relatively well, the practicality on any given banjo is going to be somewhat dependant on the initial height of your fifth string at the fifth fret, string tension/gauge, and angle of the string as it progresses toward the bridge. Since the block relies on string pressure to hold it securely in place it works best at the lower positions where the string angle locks it down with the greatest force. It works best on a fifth string that rests on the fifth fret and stays firmly in place for perhaps the first four frets past the fifth. The farther up the neck it is raised the lower the downward pressure, so it’s possible to make it rattle when the fifth is played hard if it’s positioned over the upper frets, it would depend on the individual banjo its being used on and playing style. Yes, the ebony version did take a bit of the edginess off the fifth, but I prefer a little softer fifth tone, so that’s an advantage.
Will I use these? If I need a quick capo where there isn’t one, sure. I’m a pretty firm believer in spikes, but this all started when I was reading a post from someone who did not want any holes or spikes in their instrument. I have used a version of this that consists of a solid brass bar with a rounded top edge that slips over the fret when I capo my lap steel and it made me curious as to if the concept could be applied to banjo.
Peter Blair - Posted - 02/17/2013: 21:01:21
I hate to be a wet blanket here but, who doesn't fret their 5th string?
Pete
rudy - Posted - 02/18/2013: 05:00:35
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Blair
I hate to be a wet blanket here but, who doesn't fret their 5th string?
Pete
That would be an interesting poll, Pete. I know quite a few clawhammer players and I can't think of any of them that do fret the fifth.
