hektic - Posted - 11/27/2012:  17:43:11

Hey guys, so I've watched a few videos and feel confident I can do it myself. I have two heads just incase I mess one up.

Can I use any side of the calf skin? the rougher side looks nicer.

Also I need to make sure i leave the TH a good 1/4inch so he hooks catch all around? I want it about 1/8 above the head fully tight, as you can see in the pictures the previous owner overtighened the head which caused the hooks to catch on the head.

any other  last minute suggestions?

Thanks alot!

trapdoor2 - Posted - 11/27/2012:  18:16:02

I don't think there is any difference which side you pick. I prefer the smooth side to be out...simply personal preference.

I usually start around 1/4" and just pull the head taught...but don't really do any stretching. All I really want is to get all the wrinkles out.

Don't touch it for two or three days. No cheating! Don't put it where the cat will sit on it either. 

After the head is dry, I start cranking it down; listening and thumping and feeling how it is moving. About halfway to where I want it, I carefully slice off the excess. Remember, once you cut it...no going back. If you don't like the mount, you can take it off, re-wet and remount...but after you've cut it, you're done. There's nothing to keep you from cranking it all the way down before you cut off the excess but I just like doing it about halfway thru.

Don't nick the skin around the rim edge when you're cutting the excess off. I usually take a stone (sharpening stone, Norton stone, etc.) to a #11 Xacto blade and dull 90% of it, leaving only a little bit at the tip sharp (1/8"?, something like that). That keeps me from accidently slicing the head. I don't like to be able to see the cut edges, so I angle the knife point down low on the tension hoop so that I cut off the max amount. When the TH is cranked all the way down, you can't see the edges of the skin.

Biggest thing: don't worry! If it is too tight or too loose, you'll probably notice it before you trim it. Just demount and start over.

hektic - Posted - 11/27/2012:  18:23:19

ok, I saw a couple of videos where it shows to cut the head right after first installation, im guessing this is not advisable, I should cut it dry a day or two later?

Shawn Hoover - Posted - 11/27/2012:  18:54:32

If you've got your good 1/4" of TH and you're feeling confident about the mount, go ahead and trim some off while it's wet. This blows any chance of a redo, as mentioned above, but the advantage is the final trimming will be easier if there's not as much skin bunched up. Once that stuff dries hard, it's not as much fun to work with. With your backup skin on hand, you may feel risky and go for it!

You may want needlenose pliers to help pull it under the TH and a small ruler to check for even height. Get it as perfect as you can so you don't have to hassle with pesky attempts at adjustments after it's dry. You've got time. I probably took the whole thing apart and reseated the flesh hoop three times on my last one.

Good luck and have fun!

hektic - Posted - 11/28/2012:  18:46:41

Well that was fun!

I had a little bit of trouble and I fought with it, but I hope it turns out right (fingers crossed!)

It sure looks good and even, TH standing 1/4 inch proud.

There is a very little dimple on one of the edges, but I hope it drys out tight

and as I was pulling the skin with my longnose (thanks for the suggestion, I really needed them!) I tore a very small section at the flesh hoop. It looks minor but I'm assuming that could be a fatal error. I ended up cutting the head, I figured it'll work or the head is scrap anyways.

I really love the look of this head, I hope it turns out and works, even if it is not 100% and still functional I'll be satisfied for now until my next attempt.

Edited by - hektic on 11/28/2012 19:01:27

jbalch - Posted - 11/28/2012:  19:01:14

Congratulations. I hope it works out great.

I think the small dimple will probably disappear as it dries. My approach is a little different than some others. I mount the head and immediately trim the hide just above the tension hoop. Then after it has dried at least overnight, I remove the head from the banjo and trim it closely with scissors. Then reinstall on the banjo and allow it to dry another 12 to 24 hours.

There are some photos of my steps here: banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...umid=6932

Edited by - jbalch on 11/28/2012 19:17:11

hektic - Posted - 11/28/2012:  19:17:24

Thanks JBalch. Ive been admiring your heads, and will probably get one in the future, but I felt that this one needed my own blood and sweat to go into it. It was a gift from a muscian friend of mine, and needed a renovation, I had to do it myself.

On a side note, I can let you all know that my dog is loving the excess trimmings. Hes been eyeing that skin ever since it came in the mail  

jbalch - Posted - 11/28/2012:  19:54:35

I encourage folks to mount their own heads. Looks like you did a great job!  That is the best way to get a good fit -  especially on a vintage or odd-size banjo.

One more tip:  I try to avoid using pliers if possible. But when they are necessary, I use a pair of watchmakers (or jewelers) pliers with wide flat tips.  I think these are sometimes called duck-bill pliers.  This type of tool is less likely to tear the hide (Thanks to David Emery for this idea).

See attached photo (I found this old pair on ebaY):

Edited by - jbalch on 11/28/2012 19:58:08

watchmakers' pliers

skip sail - Posted - 11/28/2012:  21:15:55

did you get the hooks i sent?

jmoathout - Posted - 11/29/2012:  05:09:34

I may have missed it, but did anyone mention the sometime-used method of spraying both side of the head with shoe water repellant when the head is finished but unmounted to avoid finish damage to wood? It seems to reduce humidity caused head tension changes. I don't have a good control test since either John or I sprayed all my heads. Normally, but not always, the humidity changes don't bother me. Now on a recent trip to Gulf Shores, that was a different story.....

Shawn Hoover - Posted - 11/29/2012:  09:06:31

Nice job! It looks great. Sorry about that tear. Hopefully it's fine, but like you said, you've got your backup.

John, those pliers are cool. I guess I was lucky and had no tear the time I used needlenose pliers, but it makes sense that it should tear, yanking on a piece of skin with a narrow steel tip.

jmoathout, I've yet to find the results of a good control test on that topic. I'd love to know how much it really helps or doesn't. I think we're all too busy fixing the head tension or having fun playing to bother with detailed measurements over time. 

jbalch - Posted - 11/29/2012:  12:10:38

Regarding treating with waterproofer spray.  I do think it helps ...  but does not eliminate fluctuations.

From my observation,  if you need to re-wet the top of a pre-mounted head (ie: to stretch the crown). Treated hides take more moisture and a little longer to soften than un-treated.

The Old Timer - Posted - 11/29/2012:  13:52:40

The real old timers used to keep 4 extra long hooks for initial mounting with a REALLY high tension hoop clearance. You see this in some of the old instructions. I have no idea where they got extra long hooks, but there you have it.

Use the first 4 to pull the head down from "very high" to "high" where the regular hooks will now catch.

These heads ALWAYS stretch more than expected in my experience. From where the regular hooks first "catch" with some tension and a flattish appearance in the head, I expect the tension hoop to draw down 3/8" or more.

But, I've never put one on wet either. Perhaps the drying process tightens it up enough you don't have to draw down 3/8" or more.

Best wishes for a good outcome! I see why you want to avoid the low TH of the previous owner, those hook tips will bit the head!

hektic - Posted - 11/29/2012:  14:48:06

Yes skip I got the hooks, I was going to send you an email in thanks! They arrived tuesday.

The head is dry, It seems quite tight, almost too tight, Its pretty much at the point where I'd like the keep it, the only problem is it is too high , I'd have to tighten it even more to get it lower. I'm going to start tightening it soon. Just got home.

At this point it the stings may have trouble clearing the TH cleanly. I'm thinking if this doesn't work I'll take a dremmel to the TH and grooge a little notch so the strings can pass. And I'll get a new TH in the future.  I really like this head and this mount, I hope I can keep it

Shawn Hoover - Posted - 11/29/2012:  17:30:11

John, thanks for the observation on rewetting. It makes sense that the waterproofer would slow humidity changes in the same way.

hektic, interesting that your head's not wanting to stretch. That seems to be happening with my last one, too, actually. I planned for 1/8" of travel, but it's riding high and tight after a few weeks. If this is for a standard head size you could reuse on another banjo, you might consider mounting your backup with a slightly higher crown and going with that as long as it doesn't stretch and create problems like the original head on this banjo.