Banjo Saint - Posted - 11/02/2012:  16:09:48

I would like to experiment with a skin head on a prewar one piece flange Gibson. If you have tried this, what worked and what did not? Did you use an original skin head or use a modern/new one? Did you have to treat the original head? What modern/new head did you try/like? Are there resources you used? I appreciate your responses and any help you might feel would be valuable. Thank you.

Edited by - Banjo Saint on 11/02/2012 16:13:38

jbalch - Posted - 11/02/2012:  18:19:13

I installed a new Stern Tanning calfskin head on a 1932 Style 5 conversion for a Nashville area player.  The owner of this banjo is an awesome musician and record producer who played a lot of bluegrass banjo in his younger days. He even played some shows with Bill Monroe.  But he had been away from the banjo for several years concentrating on guitar and other interests.  He came to me and specifically wanted to set this banjo up for an "authentic - pre-bluegrass" sound.  From the feedback he has given me, the results are very pleasing to him. I thought it sounded great too.

Regarding the type of head to seek.:  A genuine Rogers head would be perfect.  They were the BEST and preferred by Earl and most professionals before plastic heads were available.  But they have been out-of-production for many decades and are very hard to find in good shape.  A used, pre-mounted head might be risky.  BUT: There is a never-used, unmounted Rogers hide on ebay right now...this is extremely rare: 

ebay.com/itm/281014057032?ssPa...438.l2649

As for NEW hides, I recommend Stern Tanning.  There is information about them on my blog at the link below:

banjohangout.org/myhangout/blo...gid=27942

I hope that helps...

Edited by - jbalch on 11/02/2012 18:21:12

1932 style 5 Mastertone w/ Stern tanning calfskin head

TR Dockery - Posted - 11/02/2012:  18:47:07

Hi, John--

I see the one on eBay is 14"; is it your experience that this is an adequate size from which to roll onto a flesh hoop for an 11" rim?  Also, would you be the go-to guy for this service?  Lastly, what has your experience been with Bill Miller's hide heads?

Thanks,

Randy in Germantown, TN

jbalch - Posted - 11/02/2012:  19:08:46

14" is the the smallest size To fit an 11" rim. There s not much skin to spare.

Bill Miller's heads were fantastic. I bought lots of hides and hoops from him. I miss Bill he was a big help to me.

jbalch - Posted - 11/02/2012:  19:17:12

I see the Rogers skin sold.

TR Dockery - Posted - 11/02/2012:  19:19:35

I have one of Bill Miller's heads but I haven't used it yet.  I don't know if his family is still carrying on his business today but I got the head I have a few months after he passed last winter and it looks to be just dandy; shipping was very prompt.  I am still trying to make up my mind whether to put in on a '29 TPF Granada archtop or on a custom flathead top tension.  I still have the original Rogers head that was on the Granada when I got it, but I don't know how it would take being tightened up to playing tension.  Some very dark discoloration (from sweat, I imagine) on the lower 5 o'clock area of the head, but otherwise appears serviceable. 

Randy

TR Dockery - Posted - 11/02/2012:  19:29:17

Banjo Saint--

Here is a link to a pretty relevant archived discussion on the topic of installation you might find helpful; good luck!

banjohangout.org/archive/230050

Happy trails,

Randy in Germantown, TN 

steve davis - Posted - 11/02/2012:  19:30:22

The tunes on my homepage (except for Buffalo Gals) are recorded with a very tight Gold Tone pre mounted skin head on my "29 tb2 conversion.

I liked the sound for a while,but I ran it pretty darn tight to sound good and got scared of hurting the flange so I took it off.

Edited by - steve davis on 11/02/2012 19:44:53

jbalch - Posted - 11/02/2012:  19:33:03

Randy:  I think Bill's daughter may be able to fill orders for hides and possible pre-mounts.  I know several folks have ordered from her since Bill's passing.

I used to really like his "vellum-processed" calf skins.  They seemed sturdy and had a great sound (IMHO).

TR Dockery - Posted - 11/02/2012:  19:47:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

The tunes on my homepage (except for Buffalo Gals) are recorded with a very tight Gold Tone head on my "29 tb2 conversion.

I liked the sound for a while,but I ran it pretty darn tight to sound good and got scared of hurting the flange so I took it off.

---

 I bought a Gold Tone hide head a few years ago but it came on a rather bulky aluminum hoop that had to be filed to fit on whatever banjo you were to put it on and I shied away from doing that and sold it still new to someone who knew what they were doing.  I also thought the skin was pretty thick, compared to older hide heads I had seen installed already.

steve davis - Posted - 11/02/2012:  19:52:05

I had to file the bead to get it to fit between the neck and ring,but they said it would take it and it did.
I had to tighten it more than I wanted to,to get it to perform.

The Old Timer - Posted - 11/02/2012:  21:11:41

I just put one of J Balch's Stern calfskin heads on my 1926 flat head conversion. It took me a little while to find the right "tap tone", it's not as "clear" to hear as with a plastic head. At first I had it too slack. Sounded OK but like I was playing the banjo under a blanket -- loss of crispness. After a week or so I followed advice to see if bridge feet were indenting the underside of the head, and they were so I tightened up 1 3/4 turns and got a tap tone of G on a rainy day, pre-hurricane. Now that it's dry again it's about at an A. The crispness came back, sounds TERRIFIC. Not as "hollow" as the plastic head, nor quite as "pingy". I am thrilled with the tone and volume (and appearance).

Jim Mills' CD "Hide Head Blues" features 4 pre war original 5 string flat heads, and they all sound FANTASTIC.

Presuming I don't get discouraged by weather's effects on this Balch/Stern head, I like the sound much better than the plastic head.

For $75 I think it's at least as good and as interesting an investment as a high priced capo! Why not give it a try?

Banjo Saint - Posted - 11/03/2012:  01:45:06

Hey Folks-

Thanks for the information.  Quite frankly, it is much more helpful and detailed than I hoped for.  Based on what has been suggested, I think I will might try several heads and start by putting them on a new and expendable one piece flange so that I don't ruin a prewar flange.

This is going to be fun, interesting and informative.

Thanks again.

-Sean

jbalch - Posted - 11/03/2012:  03:33:58

Here is another old one (used - pre-mounted) for sale on ebaY. I think Lou is a member here....

ebay.com/itm/321005619646?ssPa...438.l2649

TR Dockery - Posted - 11/03/2012:  05:48:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by jbalch

Here is another old one (used - pre-mounted) for sale on ebaY. I think Lou is a member here....

ebay.com/itm/321005619646?ssPa...438.l2649

---

Lou is a member here.  I bought a very nice pre-war one piece flange and armrest from him; honest seller and I dealt with him directly.

Happy trails,

Randy in Germantown, TN

Banjo Saint - Posted - 11/03/2012:  15:23:29

Thanks guys

Ks_5-picker - Posted - 11/03/2012:  17:18:24

I had an old skin head on my kel kroydon when I first had it converted.I had the american banjo co. aluminum ring in it at the time. The tone when it was inside was pretty good,but it quickly lost volume when outside,especially when the humidity was high. I think most who have tried them will say that they take a lot of patience if you take them in and out to play them.

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 11/03/2012:  17:48:05

My long-time partner in musical crime, Kevin Chaffee, plays a prewar RB-3 archtop that still has the original Rodgers head.

He never does anything to it, but he also doesn't play it at outdoor gigs where it would be exposed to heat or humidity extremes.

It sounds wonderful.

~Pete