Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 10/19/2012:  07:31:45

There has to be a way to know if you're getting the crown height right. I like the tension hoop to rest flush with the surface of the skin when tightened up. What I've been doing is mounting the skin while wet and tightening up to where the hoop is about 2-3mm higher than the surface of the skin, thinking that once it's dried out, remounted, and tightened up, it should flush out. Not quite getting there---so, what's the "trick" to getting the crown height at a real predictable level?

Banjophobic - Posted - 10/19/2012:  07:33:24

Get some tips from John Balch. He does as good a job of mounting a head as anyone I  know of. For me the real trick of getting that head crown right, is to buy a head already mounted from guys like him...

PM John and pick his brain

Edited by - Banjophobic on 10/19/2012 07:33:53

banjered - Posted - 10/19/2012:  08:38:42

Good question, looking forwards to answers. I was lucky on my first skinhead. I did as you say and it came out perfectly. However, I bet that skins vary such that you can't always predict acurately where that tension hoop is going to end up. I guess that if the skin seems soft/stretchy, you'd leave the tension hoop a little high before cranking down, and visa versa for a stiff skin.

If the hoop ends up high, can you just soak the skin a bit more while it is on the banjo and tighten it down? Banjered

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 10/19/2012:  08:42:19

quote:

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Originally posted by banjered

If the hoop ends up high, can you just soak the skin a bit more while it is on the banjo and tighten it down? Banjered

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Tried that, and it helped some, but when it dried out it shrank back to almost where it was before.

Shawn Hoover - Posted - 10/19/2012:  09:24:11

I'm interested in this question as well. When I watched Richie Dotson's video, he yanked on that thing with some force. I figured by making it as tight as you can when wet, you take some of the variability out of it as it dries? Like banjered, my first one came out somehow, but I have confidence in my ability to repeat that result every time.

BConk - Posted - 10/19/2012:  10:19:52

I'd try mounting it with very little soaking. Mount it at first as tightly as you can with the tension hoop standing proud of the rim by about half it's depth. Let it dry, then tighten it over several days in increments until you get the rim and hoop flush then treat the head with something to lessen its ability to absorb moisture - check with John Balch to see if he has any ideas. You don't want to use any oil as that will soften the skin. I know for holsters I use Mop and Glow and that seals them nicely and gives them a little lustre. Bear in mind, however, even treated, the skin will stretch and shrink somewhat with fluctuations in humidity so you may be chasing a phantom wish.

Jack Russel - Posted - 10/19/2012:  10:58:44

when drawing down the tension hoop before drying, leave only a few millimetres of travel to take up the tension when the skin is dry. Dry vellums are less elastic than you'd think, and the commonest problems arises from drying the vellum with the hoop set too high, leading to problems with strings fouling the hoop when full tension is finally applied.

That said, no two vellums are quite the same

maneckep - Posted - 10/19/2012:  11:12:13

I mount them with the tension hoop fairly high.  A day later after it dries, I dampen the head top and bottom with a damp washcloth and tighten 4-5 quarter turns.  Let it dry overnight again, repeat the dampening and tightening again the next day.  Repeat as many days as it takes to get it down to where you want it to be.

Paul

jbalch - Posted - 10/19/2012:  14:37:47

Unlike some folks, I go ahead and rough trim the hide while it is still wet.  I trim it with scissors - just above the tension hoop (see photo below). That allows me to clearly see how high the hoop is sitting.

I set the initial crown so that the tension hoop sits well above the top of the head (at least 1/8" higher than I want to to sit after stretching and full tension).  I also want it to be level.

While the hide is wet - I want very little tension on the head. It will tighten plenty as it dries.  Avoid applying too much much tension while it is wet. Too much tension at that point can stress the hide and expose weaknesses (leading to premature failure).

After 24 hours, I remove the dried head from the rim and trim the remaining edge with scissors.  I also apply water proofer spray while the head is removed.

I agree that no two hides are the same. Each stretches differently. I try to set the crown so that when fully-stretched (in a few days or weeks) the tension hoop remains slightly above the head - and there is plenty of room to tighten further if needed. Initially, the crown may seem low (tension hoop sits high).  But most hides continue to stretch over time - so I like to allow room for it to move.

There is more on a blog I wrote on the topic a while ago:  banjohangout.org/myhangout/blo...gid=27738

Edited by - jbalch on 10/19/2012 14:51:21

Natural goat hide stretched	Initial trim - still wet	edge of dried hide	removed for final trim
close trim	final edge	natural goat hide (not mottled)	August 19, 2012 top stamp

XXXris - Posted - 10/19/2012:  18:42:47

And, another part of the trick is that you can start over and do it again if it doesn't work the first time. Mild cursing also seems to be an integral part of the process, but I'm not sure it helps!

skip sail - Posted - 10/19/2012:  23:43:40

quote:

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Originally posted by XXXris

And, another part of the trick is that you can start over and do it again if it doesn't work the first time. Mild cursing also seems to be an integral part of the process, but I'm not sure it helps!

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Flinging the head across the workshop in a frisbee like fashion can also accompany the mild cursing. Excessive cursing and flinging can be avoided by buying one of John Balch's excellent heads.

rudy - Posted - 10/20/2012:  04:54:37

John, thanks so much for posting the photos.  That's a great overview of how you accomplish the task at hand.

mrphysics55 - Posted - 10/20/2012:  09:29:16

Yes, thanks.

banjered - Posted - 10/20/2012:  10:57:08

Yes, thanks John for your insights/sharing! Looks like I did it all wrong but somehow my skinhead came out OK....so far ( 6 months down the road). From the photos it looks like you do the final trimming with the tension hoop removed. Does the hide stick that firmly to the flesh hoop to where you are not worried about it slipping? I would think that if it slips ever so slightly off the flesh hoop that the hide becomes a throwaway and you have to start all over again. Since you do so many heads, do you use extra standard 11" and 12" pots?

I like the idea of using sissors for trimming instead of a sheetrock cutter. Being lazy and modifying your method, I would soak the hide pretty good and mount it on the pot just enough to hold it, trim it once with the sissors, and then while it is still wet crank it down to where the tension hoop is about an eigth of an inch or so above the head, let it dry overnight and then crank it down more the next morning. Do you see any problems with this approach?

For some reason I tend to play right where the head and neck meet no matter what size banjo I am using. Your last picture with the tension hoop still high would make the banjo pretty unplayable for me with banging my right hand fingers on the hoop. I am too impatient to let the hide dry out over days to weeks before it is comfortable to play. Again, I must have just been lucky on my first go around. There is just a certain amount of guesstimation that comes with hide heads no matter what method you use. Thoughts? Banjered