frailinrebel - Posted - 05/11/2012:  18:22:57

i want to buy a 16-hook, 12 inch banjo and was wondering if that relatively small number of hooks would have any effect on the sound.  the banjo is a brooks spartan and i know they are extremely high quality, but i was just concerned about volume, resonance, etc.

thanks

jack

the-fish - Posted - 05/11/2012:  18:31:27

Did you check brooks website or ask him? I've owned 3I of his banjos bog fan.

J-Walk - Posted - 05/11/2012:  18:49:57

Here's an old thread on this very topic:

banjohangout.org/archive/191979

George Flink - Posted - 05/11/2012:  18:59:26

How can you doubt it? Is nothing sacred?

the-fish - Posted - 05/11/2012:  19:59:06

Stupid phone.3 banjos, big fan!lol

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/11/2012:  20:36:34

Brooks' designs are well researched and thought out.
He has no doubt determined that 16 hooks vs. 12" are
sufficient and perhaps even desirable. I wouldn't hesitate
on one of Brooks' banjos. You'll be lucky to own one. They
are the sort of banjo that will serve you for a lifetime (and
then your descendants for their lifetimes).

My Dad used to say you could judge the quality of a banjo by
the number of hooks. More=better. I don't know about that,
but more hooks certainly equals more expensive. For me, more
hooks have more of a vintage look, especially with a spunover rim.

The one thing I can say is that it can be harder to keep all of the nuts
tight on banjos with lots of hooks. As you tighten them, others keep
loosening up.

I have banjos with from 10 to 30 hooks. Learning to deal with things like
skin-heads, lots of hooks, gut-strings, etc. is all part of learning to play the
instrument as far as I am concerned.

frailinrebel - Posted - 05/11/2012:  21:10:03

thanks for the replies! now i have no doubt that i will order a brooks spartan within the next few months.

Seeders - Posted - 05/11/2012:  21:18:51

Back in the late nineteenth century it was a common belief that banjos that had more hooks were higher quality. This was partially true with the quality of some of them but mainly because of the craftsmanship that went into them and not because the amount of hooks used. This belief still carries on today in some ways.

Like R.D. said, lots of hooks can look very nice from a traditional standpoint and it's also what you expect to see on bluegrass banjos. I too like the way it looks on certain banjos, have a few and have built them this way but I usually prefer 10 -18 depending on the pot size.

The reason that hooks loosen up as you tighten them so easily on banjos with many hooks is because of how little each of those hooks does in such a small area of the tension hoop. Brass tension hoops are fairly rigid and it's somewhat unneeded to have a hook every inch or so. The tension from two hooks even inches apart will hold the head at tension very evenly. It also makes for tuning the head much easier and upkeep is less time consuming as it's less likely to have hooks loosen up as it is with 20 or more hooks and it takes less time to tighten them up.

It's a similar concept to screwing two pieces of wood together. There is no reason to put a screw every inch over twelve inches, one every 3" or 4" will hold it just fine.

I'd not hesitate at all about the number of hooks when it come to an open back, especially from Brooks. As mentioned before his banjos are top quality and you will not be disappointed.

DantheBanjoMan - Posted - 05/11/2012:  22:16:17

I once removed half of the hooks from an 11" rim (leaving me with 12 hooks) and I couldn't get a tight, even tension.  (Flat hooks, notched rim, BTW.)

Fathand - Posted - 05/12/2012:  07:00:50

Flat hooks should be used with a grooved rim, round hooks go with a notched rim.

My 1925 BB is designed with half the holes in the flange large so that the nuts rest against the tube. This way the flange can be removed without undoing the head tension, if you were to decide you want to play open back (so goes the strory). I tried it once and the remaining half the hooks held the tension.

There is really not a lot of tension on hooks and 12 are most likely up to the job.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DantheBanjoMan

I once removed half of the hooks from an 11" rim (leaving me with 12 hooks) and I couldn't get a tight, even tension.  (Flat hooks, notched rim, BTW.)

---

DantheBanjoMan - Posted - 05/12/2012:  09:58:18

Good eye.  I mis-spoke.  Grooved rim.

I thought 12 hooks would be enough, but it wasn't even.  I'm wondering if there was some flex in the hoop.

mojo_monk - Posted - 05/12/2012:  10:50:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by frailinrebel

thanks for the replies! now i have no doubt that i will order a brooks spartan within the next few months.

---

You won't regret it!

I've had a Spartan since 2007 and it has been set up w/skin head and Nylgut "classical" strings since 2008. It continues to impress me and plays as smooth as butter. It's the only banjo I own. I'm excited for you

-Sean

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/12/2012:  20:20:54

If the hooks are made of soft metal you need a whole lot of them to hold down the rim. My avatar has about 36 hooks total, but they will split open if you try to tighten them more than they are currently tightened. I sometimes use a hair dryer to tighten the head when I want to play that banjo. She never leaves my climate controlled house either.

Back when making hardened metal was an expensive and hit or miss proposition, lots of hooks was the only effective answer. Banjo players knew to only tighten by tiny amounts before moving on to the next hook.

With modern metals I would bet that 8 hooks total would be enough to do the job, make it 10 for Military Spec.

I like the look of a head with a fair number of hooks - Like my 12 inch Ramsey with 26 hooks, but my other 12 inch head has only 18 hooks and it works jes'fine too.

erikforgod - Posted - 05/12/2012:  22:32:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

Brooks' designs are well researched and thought out.

He has no doubt determined that 16 hooks vs. 12" are

sufficient and perhaps even desirable. I wouldn't hesitate

on one of Brooks' banjos. You'll be lucky to own one. They

are the sort of banjo that will serve you for a lifetime (and

then your descendants for their lifetimes).



My Dad used to say you could judge the quality of a banjo by

the number of hooks. More=better. I don't know about that,

but more hooks certainly equals more expensive. For me, more

hooks have more of a vintage look, especially with a spunover rim.



The one thing I can say is that it can be harder to keep all of the nuts

tight on banjos with lots of hooks. As you tighten them, others keep

loosening up.



I have banjos with from 10 to 30 hooks. Learning to deal with things like

skin-heads, lots of hooks, gut-strings, etc. is all part of learning to play the

instrument as far as I am concerned.

---

I really like Brooks banjos...they really speak to me. One of the things that I like is the fact that their arent many hooks. I am thinking his banjos should be nice and low-weight as well. I like the look and feel of wood and simple as well. I think 8 - 14 hooks or so and anywhere in between for me is plenty. I like the idea of a Masten fretless..

mojo_monk - Posted - 05/13/2012:  04:31:49

quote:

---

Originally posted by erikforgod

. . . I am thinking his banjos should be nice and low-weight as well . . .

---

While the Spartan is not heavy, it certainly isn't as low-weight as other banjos. It's meaty and rock solid. The 10L model is much lighter in my experience.

-Sean

erikforgod - Posted - 05/13/2012:  10:02:16

Hmmmm yeah I am not into meaty heavy banjos. One of the things I like about my Goodtimes is they are lightweight. However I was surprised by how much heavier my Goodtime classic is than my Goodtime Crow just by having the heavier, thicker tension hoop and the vega style arm rest added. I really like Richard Browns (BordertownBrown) banjos as well......made from Mesquite and South western Ebony...

It says however on Brooks page that the Spartan weighs in at about 4 pounds which is what my Goodtime Crow weighs so I would consider that lightweight. Originally I thought I would like the butterfly shoes but now I think I am more into the "ball end" style. I would personally go for the "14" shoes option myself:

The Spartan banjos are very elegant and bare bones. They get their name from my old 1959 Chevy Spartan school bus, from where these banjos were once made. I designed these banjos to be used with my “butterfly” shoes, but they are also available with my “L” or “ball end” shoes. They come with either 14 or 16 shoes. The number of shoes is strictly for looks, either way you get a light weight and responsive banjo. They weigh in around 4 lbs.

Edited by - erikforgod on 05/13/2012 10:09:35

Steve Donnelly - Posted - 05/14/2012:  12:56:20

See Bruce Molsky's banjo - looks like 14 or 16.

     youtube.com/watch?v=G-WjvMuME3A

ScottK - Posted - 05/14/2012:  14:08:28

I've had a Brooks 10L since last December and it is in fact a nice light banjo. I've been very happy with it. Just what I want in a fretless banjo.

Scott

frailinrebel - Posted - 05/22/2012:  15:06:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve Donnelly

See Bruce Molsky's banjo - looks like 14 or 16.

 

     youtube.com/watch?v=G-WjvMuME3A

---

if bruce molsky has it then i must.  i'm kind of a molsky fanatic.

unclekurty - Posted - 05/22/2012:  17:19:55

I just like a lot of hooks on some banjos. Brooks spunover rims remind me of vintage banjos so I got his 30 L model. His hardware is pretty cool too so the more the better.