spoonfed - Posted - 03/15/2012:  09:30:09

Hi all you officionados out there ! having heard so much about these banjos I thought I would check them out, Wow! whats going on with those instruments ? every last one I saw on his website is a total ripoff of a Vega ! does that company just specialise in Vega copies or does he design anything original ? tone rings, inlays, the lot !  anybody care to explain why this company does this ?

olsneelock - Posted - 03/15/2012:  09:55:56

The old Vega copy no longer exists.  Deering now owns the name and while the banjos that they make under that name are fine and certainly reminiscent of the originals, they are not the same.

As in many things, traditional styles that approach the original aesthetic have value to people, and when it comes to Vega-style banjos Reiters are among the best.   But other makers also emulate the style (i.e. Fawley at one point, Unger, Ramsey though only some models).

All this together with the consistently high quality of Reiters and an attractive price have made them (and him - just one guy btw) a big success.    Great resale value on Reiters too.

jw

Edited by - olsneelock on 03/15/2012 09:57:45

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 03/15/2012:  09:58:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by olsneelock

The old Vega copy no longer exists.  Deering now owns the name and while the banjos that they make under that name are fine and certainly reminiscent of the originals, they are not the same.

As in many things, traditional styles that approach the original aesthetic have value to people, and when it comes to Vega-style banjos Reiters are among the best.   But other makers also emulate the style (i.e. Fawley at one point, Unger, Ramsey though only some models).

All this together with the consistently high quality of Reiters and attractive price have made them a big success.    Great resale value on Reiters too.

 

jw

---

Excellent answer.

It's along the same thread of why many modern banjo makers emulate the pre-war Gibson mastertone style.  Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 03/15/2012:  09:59:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Wilkerson

quote:

---

Originally posted by olsneelock

The old Vega copy no longer exists.  Deering now owns the name and while the banjos that they make under that name are fine and certainly reminiscent of the originals, they are not the same.

As in many things, traditional styles that approach the original aesthetic have value to people, and when it comes to Vega-style banjos Reiters are among the best.   But other makers also emulate the style (i.e. Fawley at one point, Unger, Ramsey though only some models).

All this together with the consistently high quality of Reiters and attractive price have made them a big success.    Great resale value on Reiters too.

 

jw

---

Excellent answer.

It's along the same thread of why many modern banjo makers emulate the pre-war Gibson mastertone style.  Imitation is the highest form of flattery.  Imitation is not always synonymous with "rip-off"

---

olsneelock - Posted - 03/15/2012:  10:24:28

"The old Vega copy no longer exists. "

Oops, meant Vega company there.

jw

mikehalloran - Posted - 03/15/2012:  11:21:49

When Mr. Reiter started up, no one else was really paying attention to the Fairbanks-Vega banjos and Vega built Bacon of the 1900s-1920s. His banjos were never exact copies but are closely inspired by these classic designs. He found a market and has an excellent reputation. 

Vega, OTOH, stopped making those banjos in the 1930s. Nothing to be "ripped off" here.

So, what's your problem?

(Rhetorical question. I really don't care what it is).

For what it's worth, Deering, who now owns the name, doesn't make exact Vega copies either.

In many ways, Reiter and Deering make better banjos than Vega ever did. Doesn't stop me from loving my vintage Vegas, one of which has a very nice, Coles inspired neck (again, not an exact copy of a real Coles Eclipse neck - this is better). I have never heard of a Reiter needing a neck reset - can't say that about the originals.

There are now a number of builders inspired by classic Vega designs. The number pales, however, to the number of Gibson copies being made today.

Edited by - mikehalloran on 03/15/2012 11:28:21

Emiel - Posted - 03/15/2012:  11:36:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by mikehalloran

 

Vega, OTOH, stopped making those banjos in the 1930s. Nothing to be "ripped off" here.

 

---

1970 that is... Then Martin made the Vega-banjos in the Vega-style up to 1979, when the brand name was sold to South Korea, and non-Vega-style banjo got the Vega name, until Deering bought the name. But I'm sure, you know all that...

Edited by - Emiel on 03/15/2012 11:37:30

mikehalloran - Posted - 03/15/2012:  11:45:51

No, I was referring to the OP.

The banjos that inspired Bart Reiter were no longer being made by the late 1930s. One can also make a case for 1923 when Vega made a lot of changes. I have a feeling that BanjoBart, were he to chime in, might give an even earlier date.

Emiel - Posted - 03/15/2012:  11:48:54

Of course, if you look at it that way. The Deering Vega banjos have coordinator rods like Vega built then in the 1970s. Bart builds them more traditional... 

xzr6f7 - Posted - 03/15/2012:  12:13:08

Reiter banjos are top quality and Bart is a top individual. Enough said.

Jimmy Gibson - Posted - 03/15/2012:  12:14:54

@spoonfed

I have to ask, did you post this simply to stir up controversy?

Clearly, there is a large community on BHO that loves Bart Reiter's Banjos. Which is evident from the fact that the Reiter banjos group has over a hundred members and the overwhelmingly positive reviews of his work.



It strikes me as odd that you own a Vega (Deering) Little Wonder, that by your definition would be a "rip-off" as well because Deering did not design or produce the original Vega banjos either.

Edited by - Jimmy Gibson on 03/15/2012 12:15:25

pastorharry - Posted - 03/15/2012:  12:15:07

I've never seen a banjo that wasn't a "rip off" of another banjo, except possibly the "squared eel"!! ;^)

Quartermaster James - Posted - 03/15/2012:  12:54:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by spoonfed

Wow! whats going on with those instruments ? every last one I saw on his website is a total ripoff of a Vega !

---

Really? Even the Bacon FF inspired models?

Linking this to the Bart Reiter Banjos group for more commentary: http://www.banjohangout.org/group/bartreiterbanjos

Edited by - Quartermaster James on 03/15/2012 12:56:45

Quartermaster James - Posted - 03/15/2012:  13:01:52

If you really want some explanation of motive, watch this: banjohangout.org/lessons/banjo...asp?id=71

And see this follow-up here: banjohangout.org/topic/202324/18

Edited by - Quartermaster James on 03/15/2012 13:04:37

dwdeacon - Posted - 03/15/2012:  13:16:45

I'm completely smitten with my Bart Reiter banjo. It's look is simple and clean, the wood is high quality (the slight curl on the maple on the neck is very pretty), the neck profile is perfect for my hand. Details like the rosewood heel cap and thick ebony peghead overlay are elegant. The build quality is flawless. It has what I want in a sound. Mine is a Special, a modest model compared to his Bacon and Whyte Laydie models, but buying used I got a fine instrument that I could afford on a grad student's budget. What's not to love?

sugarinthegourd - Posted - 03/15/2012:  14:06:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by spoonfed

Hi all you officionados out there ! having heard so much about these banjos I thought I would check them out, Wow! whats going on with those instruments ? every last one I saw on his website is a total ripoff of a Vega ! does that company just specialise in Vega copies or does he design anything original ? tone rings, inlays, the lot !  anybody care to explain why this company does this ?

---

What a strange attitude.

By the way, I would guess that Fairbanks/Vega-style banjos were overwhelmingly the most popular style of old-time banjos from the 1970s through the late 1990s or so. It's only more recently that we see so many 12" pots, shorter scales, Dobson tone rings, etc. So I guess you could say that Bart was catering to where the demand was when he started out. What's wrong with that?

One of his most beloved builds, by the way, was a "total ripoff" of a Bacon.

John

jbalch - Posted - 03/15/2012:  17:33:00

The funny thing is ....others criticize Bart because his banjos are not enough like the old ones ...Just can't please some folks I guess.

Bart  began building banjos in 1975...37 years ago.  That means his banjo building career has already lasted longer than A.C. Fairbanks and S.S. Stewart ... COMBINED.

Edited by - jbalch on 03/15/2012 17:42:49

bohemian - Posted - 03/15/2012:  17:47:23

I have owned a dozen banjos, three have been Reiter banjos.  

My favorites in this order

1993 Bart Reiter Grand Concert ( sold )

2010 Bart Reiter Regent (sold)

1993 Bart Reiter Grand Concert (currently owned)

1925 Gibson Ball Bearing conversion ( sold)

Everything else is way down the list.

Reiter banjos are first class and better than the originals in fit , finish, playability... Tone being subjective, I like the tone.

Bart Reiter is a first class builder and individual... first hand experience including recently when he set up my 1993 Grand Concert. One of the very few instrument makers who did what they said they would do, when they said they would do it , for the price quoted. Excellent workmanship and unbelievably quick turn around.

My only regret is selling my other two.  Reiter banjos are  the best for my money.

In my small burg of 1300 there is one other Bart Reiter, a Standard.. and a very fine instrument.

PS.. Don't tell anyone about the Reiter banjos...keep it to yourself.

Dexter - Posted - 03/15/2012:  17:51:59

quote: For me, part of the beauty of the banjo is it's rich tradition and the looks of the old classics. Bart's banjos are a picture of simple elegance with classic design features. He makes a great banjo and I hope I can afford one before he retires and all the used ones go up in value. Below is something o-riginal....no thanks.

 

---

Originally posted by spoonfed



 does that company just specialise in Vega copies or does he design anything original ? tone rings, inlays, the lot !

---

PickinFool - Posted - 03/15/2012:  18:00:16

I'm loving all of this Bart Reiter Banjo talk. Before I ran across this thread, I ordered me a Bart Reiter Regent. Hope to have it before next weekend.

Edited by - PickinFool on 03/15/2012 18:01:07

pastorharry - Posted - 03/15/2012:  18:51:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by spoonfed

Hi all you officionados out there ! having heard so much about these banjos I thought I would check them out, Wow! whats going on with those instruments ? every last one I saw on his website is a total ripoff of a Vega ! does that company just specialise in Vega copies or does he design anything original ? tone rings, inlays, the lot !  anybody care to explain why this company does this ?

---

 Why is this in shopping advice? "spoonfed" has already, on a previous thread, touted the Deering little wonder that he plays,(a fine banjo I'm sure). In this thread he seems to be simply bashing and baiting, rather than seeking "shopping advice".  Let's hope this was only a naive question with a very poor choice of words, rather than a personal attack on Mr. Reiter.

Quartermaster James - Posted - 03/16/2012:  06:31:47

quote:  Let's hope this was only a naive question with a very poor choice of words, rather than a personal attack on Mr. Reiter.

---

Agreed. Well said. Thank you.

spoonfed - Posted - 03/16/2012:  09:08:43

What gives with you guys ? it was a perfectly simple question which deserved an answer from somebody unfamiliar with these banjos ! So you guys love Reiter banjos, great I am very happy for you all ! to suggest that I am stirring is not only rather offensive but, totally uncalled for, As originally stated, I looked out of curiosity as I often do to learn something new and was astonished at how similar his designs are to old Vegas ! problem ? I never at any point decried his instruments or their quality, just perplexed at how somebody can effectively copy an existing banjo design. Most of my musical background comes from nearly 40 years of guitar playing and, companies like Tokai and Takamine have been sued for less obvious derivative models ! I had no expectation of stirring up such heated debate and I will not say sorry for so doing ! I f you guys are so precious as to go off the deep end when somebody asks a pertinent and legitimate question about a subject that has puzzled him then that is truly your problem and not mine, whether or not you care to admit it, Bart Reiters banjos "look" (I made no comment regarding sound, build quality or price !) repeat, they look, to my relatively untrained eye , an awful lot like older Vegas ! as regards where this question was posted, I am sorry if its in the wrong place, I did not know where to put it, I guess I am wrong again. Some of you folks sneer about the bluegrass police but you can sure be a precious crowd too when you choose to misinterpret a polite query. BTW , what has my choice of banjo and the Deering banjo company got to do with it anyway ?

spoonfed - Posted - 03/16/2012:  09:22:23

goodness I missed that one Pastorharry ! Naive?  perhaps, for expecting enlightenment but, bashing and baiting ? wow ! thats pretty harsh.

Emiel - Posted - 03/16/2012:  09:36:57

Of course, the question was naive (at the best). It shows you don't know so much about the banjo business. There's nothing wrong with that, of course... We don't need to know everything... We can be naive in certain fields. Doesn't mean you are naive with everything, naive as a person...

Of course, they look much like Vega banjos, they were meant that way, they are supposed to look that way. And no company that closed its doors in 1970 can sue anyone...

Emiel - Posted - 03/16/2012:  09:40:07

Neither does Gibson sue Deering, Recording King, Arthur Hatfield, Yates, Huber, etc. etc. for making Gibson-types banjos. Obviously they cannot legally.

RWJones1970 - Posted - 03/16/2012:  10:17:13

Spoonfed, I am not offended by your question wanting to know about Bart Reiter and I am a fan and owner of a Bart Reiter banjo. Sometimes the way a thought is written down comes across with a tone other than what you may have meant. I have owned 4 Reiter banjos and one reason I was interested was because they look alot like the older models. I always loved the old Vegas so I figured I could have the best of both worlds with a modern look alike. If you are looking for a banjo built by a reliable, honest, good hearted fella. Look no further. If your looking for a professionally constructed banjo at less the cost of the competition, again look no further. If you can get to a music store where you can play a Reiter alongside other modern builder's banjos you will see what the rest of us who love Bart's work are talking about.

bohemian - Posted - 03/16/2012:  11:37:04

The tone of this thread was set by the OP when he posted " total ripoff".  Those words, whether spoken from England or the US,  established a personal position without basis  or experience, and considered derogatory and sure to get responses. The OP could have said "copies", "replicas" "based on designs by" or alternatives. He did not.. he posted "total ripoff".  Those who object  are doing so with  foundation.

 I don't see "precious" anywhere in the responses. 

Bart Reiter makes fine banjos that are fairly priced. He backs up his work with excellent service. That isn't "precious" it's rare, and hence the appreciation for the banjos and his work.

Consider one. 

mikehalloran - Posted - 03/16/2012:  11:52:34

It was the "total ripoff" remark that set me off.

>One of his most beloved builds, by the way, was a "total ripoff" of a Bacon<

​Most (not all) of those Bacons were made by Vega, BTW. I don't think we'll ever know if David Day designed those or if Bacon did. Mr. Day was responsible for the later Fairbanks and Fairbanks/Vega banjos before he was hired away by Bacon.

pastorharry - Posted - 03/16/2012:  12:07:22

Tokai and Takamine were NEVER sued by Martin or Gibson, that is urban legend. Tokai had to change one name one one guitar under threats of copywrite infringement,(Les Paul models), but went on to produce the first run of Sigma guitars for Martin. Takamine made great Martin replicas, as they were first in line to make cheaper Mid-Pac Martins, but were so sucessful they decided to strike out on their own.
However, our own Wyatt Fawley was threatened by Deering when he was making Pete Seeger Models with the Vega logo,(better than anyone , ever made them for that matter), and so he no longer inlays the bold VEGA above the star....Bart Reiter never did.

RWJones1970 - Posted - 03/16/2012:  12:15:36

Yeah I understand " total ripoff" could stir the pot. Sometimes I get fired up easily and other times it takes a bit more to get me going. Guess I was in a forgiving spirit.

Jason Wilkerson - Posted - 03/16/2012:  12:21:17

Spoonfed did two things: (1) asked a legitimate question (2) in a way that seemed to be attacking of Bart Reiter.  He received an answer to both, some reacted against his seeming harsh words toward a well-respected builder, but others did indeed answer his question in a helpful way. 

jbalch - Posted - 03/16/2012:  14:12:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Wilkerson



 

Spoonfed did two things: (1) asked a legitimate question (2) in a way that seemed to be attacking of Bart Reiter.  He received an answer to both, some reacted against his seeming harsh words toward a well-respected builder, but others did indeed answer his question in a helpful way. 

---

 I agree 100% - both points.

The questions were indeed answered - particularly if you follow the links provided by Quartermaster James.  There is no one better to explain Bart Reiter banjos - than the builder himself.

IMHO - the wording of the original post was unnecessarily provocative.  The response was not to be unexpected. and the response was not to be unexpected.

Edited by - jbalch on 03/16/2012 14:15:51

Jimmy Gibson - Posted - 03/16/2012:  15:07:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by spoonfed

Some of you folks sneer about the bluegrass police but you can sure be a precious crowd too when you choose to misinterpret a polite query. BTW , what has my choice of banjo and the Deering banjo company got to do with it anyway ?

---

Firstly, calling a maker's banjos "rip offs" does not qualify as polite.

Secondly, By the definition in your original post all the Deering Vega banjos would qualify as "rip offs" because they also look like the original Vega banjos but are made by a different company.  

Perhaps, you do not believe that "rip off" is a negative way to describe someone's work but I don't think you would find many people who agree.

Steve Donnelly - Posted - 03/16/2012:  17:55:33

If I went to a music store and found a banjo that I really liked,

I don't think I would check to see if the maker was just in it

for the money before I bought it.

rubicon - Posted - 03/16/2012:  19:44:08

I really felt compelled to respond to your post and I would agree with J Balch to even use the word Bart Reiter and rip off in the same sentence was unnecessary  . The fact that he has and is building Vega inspired replica's should be something to commend him for not cast aspersions. I have owned one of his instruments and have played 4 other's  it was built  rock solid and was very reasonably priced . The fit and finish was spot on and a great value ,it is very obvious that Bart has made an outstanding contribution to old time music with the very fine high quality banjo's he builds .His instruments are cherished and played today by 1000's of players and I am sure will be highly sought after long after he is gone.To authenticate my point watch one get put in the classifieds they aren't there long and there is little if any loss in your investment ,that is a FACT ! In this instant society we live in today quality and craftsmanship are two things sadly becoming a rarity . There are many very good builders out there today and Bart is right up there with the best of them ,he has a well deserved reputation and a tremendous following ,you might do better finding a different pot to stir ...

RWJones1970 - Posted - 03/17/2012:  06:46:08

Yup, exactly what rubicon said!

unclekurty - Posted - 03/17/2012:  08:47:33

It's ironic that Spoonfed looks to be playing a clone resonator banjo. There's more variety in Bart's line of banjos than most clone lines of banjos put together.

jbalch - Posted - 03/17/2012:  14:38:38

I say, let’s give Nick (spoonfed) some benefit of the doubt.  Looking at his profile and listening to his music, he is an accomplished musician (perhaps primarily a guitarist).  But it seems like he is relatively new to the banjo.  He reports having Gibson, and Vega (Deering) banjos, plus several other brand-name  instruments.

I can understand that someone new to the banjo (and possibly uninformed about the history of the Vega brand) might view the Deering Little Wonder as a “real” Vega.  So possibly, the first time he saw a Bart Reiter banjo, he might perceive it as a copy of his banjo “the real thing.” 

And as I said before, I think the wording of his question was provocative (possibly deliberately so), unnecessary and very unfortunate.

Nonetheless, I’d reply to Nick and recommend he consider that these style banjos have been made by many different producers since the late 1800s. All of them borrowed ideas and designs from each other.

 Notably this includes:  S.S. Stewart, H.C. Dobson, A.C. Faribanks, Cole, Fred Bacon, and the Vega company (including successors: Martin & Deering).  More recently, there have been many small shop makers who sell actual reproduction vintage style necks and complete banjos.  Deering simply bought the rights to the Vega name a few years ago and began making banjos which look similar to originals but contain significant construction differences.

Also, traditionally, open-back banjo players demanded instruments that look like vintage models.  Until very recently, original-style open backs did not sell well at all. Since the Vega company was functionally gone … lots of people filled that void…including Mr. Reiter.

Since 1975, Bart Reiter has been building banjos, which do indeed borrow design and style ideas directly from Fairbanks, Vega & Bacon.  But I don’t think they were ever intended as faithful, direct reproductions.  Some of Bart’s models combine various features from: Fairbanks, Vega & Bacon ways that are unique and original to Bart. What Bart has done is to make professional-grade instruments, in very popular styles, and to do so affordably.

In my opinion – as a 40-year-plus “veteran” banjo player and one who has traded many dozen old and new banjos – Bart has played his own unique role which is truly as significant as any of the great makers of the past and without-a-doubt among the very best of his generation.  It is worth repeating that, in his still ongoing career, Bart has already been making banjos longer than A.C Fairbanks and Samuel. S. Stewart combined. 

We are indeed living in the golden age of acoustic instrument building.  There are many very great builders producing truly awesome new instruments like never before.  It is an incredible time to be a player. Enjoy! 

Jimmy Gibson - Posted - 03/17/2012:  15:18:16

@jbalch:

Thanks for your informative and good natured answer. I am glad this provided an opportunity to discuss a great builder and learn a bit about the history of open-back banjos regardless of how it was prompted. 



Anyways, the OP directed the post to 'aficionados ' and jbalch is certainly that when it comes to open-back and especially Reiter banjos. 

Edited by - Jimmy Gibson on 03/17/2012 15:21:11

The Old Timer - Posted - 03/17/2012:  17:05:39

Setting aside the unfortunate choice of words in the question, I bought a Reiter CONVERSION of an old VEGA Style 5 tenor, way back in the early 1990s, because at that time it was them most reasonable way to enter the "Whyte Laydie" world where I wanted to try playing old time music. So it was a Style R Whyte Laydie pot with a Reiter neck but original dowel stick, and a Waverly tailpiece also added. Had a Gryphon peghead. I didn't have to pay a lot for it, and I enjoyed it immensely for many years. I didn't sell it until I got an older original Whyte Laydie #7 AND an original 1920s Style 3 Tu Ba Phone.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's how Reiter got into business, with conversions. Eventually he was able to expand into getting his own pots made. I've not seen a Reiter pot, but clearly the design comes from the old VEGAs because they are a proven commodity and folks recognize, like and buy them.

Any businessman wants to react to what the market is willing to buy. I don't even consider the new Deering versions as being "true" to the old VEGA designs, so I see no harm in Reiter filling that demand niche, especially when apparently no one else is trying.

But I also give a lot of credit to Ramsey, Romero, Fielding, etc. for going their own way. And even Deering.

jbalch - Posted - 03/17/2012:  18:23:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Old Timer



...

But I also give a lot of credit to Ramsey, Romero, Fielding, etc. for going their own way. And even Deering.

---

 I agree. Good for these builders (and others: Chuck Lee, Lo Gordon,  Brooks Masten, Jason Burns, and many more)  that the market has grown to accept creative new designs. It was not always that way.

Edited by - jbalch on 03/17/2012 18:32:42

BruceB - Posted - 03/17/2012:  20:46:26

I could be wrong about this but I thought Bart started out by making reproduction necks for..........old Vegas. If that's the case, it would seem that a strong similarity to a Vega would be a desirable thing. I own Bart's #36 - one of his very early banjos. I have also owned original Vegas from the 1920s and I think it's safe to say that Reiter banjos are every bit the equal, and, at least in my experience, better than the originals they were patterned after. And the fact they resemble the old Vegas is a plus.

bohemian - Posted - 03/18/2012:  00:09:03

Bart did build repro components. It is also my understanding he worked at Elderly instruments in their repair department before going off on his own to make banjos full time.

As I mentioned I have owned one of his Regents and 2 of his Bacon internal resonator Grand Concert models, which John Balch also owns. These are not exact copies but advances the ideas with modern materials and modern , more exacting workmanship.

No animosity toward the OP, just a poor choice of words phrasing his enquiry. He is not alone, I've been there as have others. If he were in the US and had a chance to see and play a Reiter banjo, I have no doubt he would agree with the consensus, fine banjos from  a fine builder who backs his product.

boondocker53 - Posted - 03/18/2012:  10:08:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by spoonfed

<snip> every last one I saw on his website is a total ripoff of a Vega ! does that company just specialise in Vega copies or does he design anything original ? tone rings, inlays, the lot !  anybody care to explain why this company does this ? <snip>

---

spoonfed, I suggest you reread your own post, quoted above. I definitely was NOT a polite inquiry. It WAS inflammatory and provocative.

That being said, I appreciate the knowledgeable gentlemen on this forum answering your inquiry with more information than you could have possibly have hoped for, considering your rude behavior. I appreciate all the historical information about Bart's banjos, and have learned a lot from this thread. Thanks guys!

And yes, BTW, I own two Reiter banjos, neither of which is is duplicated in the Deering Vega line. I have played Deering banjos as well, and Bart's banjos are a much greater value. "Ripoffs"? Hardly...

spoonfed - Posted - 03/19/2012:  03:24:38

Ripoff is a term used widely among musicians , at least it is here in the UK to describe a copy of anything derivative, albeit songs, guitars or riffs etc, I repeat that I never at any point made any comments negative or otherwise about those instruments except to express my astonishment at how they look ! I have already pointed out that from a guitar background I have never seen such striking similarity between brands, and Tokai did indeed face legal action with regard to their line of "strat" models ! I owned one straight from their UK distributers that had the legend "Tokai breezy sound" removed from the headstock because from six feet away it read like "Fender stratocaster" so I know how jealously makers guard their own particular product line, Rickenbacker too had issues with Tokai regarding "ripoffs" as the term became widely known at the time. The term that most of you guys found offensive would not ruffle any feathers in the UK because everybody uses it, we even have a show on TV called Ripoff Britain ! I am not aware of anybody here being offended by the use of that term. perhaps my wording left something to be desired, and I appologise for causing offence to any body, I am sure Reiters are great banjos, and for what it is worth I too like the look of older Vegas, just had no idea that somebody was still making instruments that looked that way ! I seem to have missed a lot of action here because I have been gigging non stop all weekend (St Patricks !) but checking things out this Monday morning I cannot help feeling I have been condemned without fair trial by some of you here and that is a shame.

bohemian - Posted - 03/19/2012:  18:12:12

Edited by - bohemian on 03/19/2012 18:14:04

weetmans - Posted - 03/20/2012:  12:36:02

I think you need to play a banjo to assess it. I have played a number of Bart's banjos (including a neck replacement on a Little Wonder rim) and own one of his standard fretless banjos. I don't really think he has stolen any design ideas from anybody: I'd rather look at his work as being "traditional reproduction". Every banjo of his that I have payed has been a thing of beauty. I also own a Hartel Boucher copy, which is, again, a beautifully crafted reproduction, not a design theft. when it comes down to it, there isn't very much that can be done in the way of putting together a totally original banjo design. Tom Nechvill has some wonderful design ideas (I also have one of his!) but they still boil down to "variations on a theme".

spoonfed - Posted - 03/20/2012:  13:45:10

Well bohemian, what can I say ? google eh ? well then it must be right ! no matter that I studied English and have been a native speaker for 50 or so years and understand colloquialisms and nuances when used in the vernacular, Google it is, I will bow to their superior wisdom ! I am done now explaining my choice of words and meaning to a bunch of folk who have no interest and, just want to climb down my throat because of a misunderstanding regarding my poor turn of phrase, plenty folks on the hangout play fast and loose with the English language, Weetmans I never attempted to assess anything ! just made the observation that those banjos look just like Vegas. I am not a fool enough to make judgement about an instrument I have not played, just chose my words poorly and got a lashing from people who have seemingly never done the same thing !  Oh and by the way Bohemian, that phrase was in use in this country long before 1997 and had nothing to do with cars, sorry buddy just setting the record straight !