Nervous Pete - Posted - 01/31/2012:  07:35:18

Hullo all,

I’m pondering on buying a banjo. Having been raised by the British comprehensive system, I had all desire to learn a musical instrument hammered out of me by learning to play Arabella on the Recorder in a massed junior school orchestra of shrill horror. Fast forward twenty years, calendar leaves fall, clouds scud across sky, etc. I’m now working in a music library and am getting incredibly hooked on the old time Harry Smith / Dust to Digital / Rounder Records stuff. Plus in attending the Green Man Festival I happen across a little banjo workshop and have a go trying to learn clawhammer. After an hour’s murdering I managed for a glorious ten seconds to get the approximate sound. I was smitten.

I’m keen on Bluegrass, but my real heart is with the mellower, older, back kitchen sound, perhaps clawhammer style, rather than the fast paced stuff. (Though admittedly it would be awesome to learn that too.)

So I’m figuring on an openback 5 string banjo. I’d like to kick off with something quite nice but still budget. I live in Cardiff in the UK, and there’s a few music shops around in a 20 mile radius. My budget is £100 - £300, but if you reckon there’s something a bit higher I should certainly go for I can wait. The 5 string open back stuff they offer seems to be:

Crane’s Music Shop:

Hudson Dixie Kid: Open Back  - £125

Hudson Orange Town Open Back ‘G’ String - £499

Gamlin’s Music Centre:

 Ozark 5-string Open Back 2102G - £155

Ozark 5-string Open Back 2105G - £175

Ozark 5-string Open Back 2109G - £195

GM Music:

Delta Blue 5 String Open Back - £119

Ozark 5-String Open Back 2102G - £119

Vintage V012 Open Back - £125

Hobgoblin:

 (A selection of Blue Moon’s and Ashbury’s from China, not sure how good they are, from £150 - £400)

Deering Goodtime Parlour Banjo DE3750 - £359

Deering inchTheCrow 5 string - £369 (inc. strap, tuner, picks, Steve Martin’s The Crow CD & Book)

Deering Goodtime Classic 5 Str - £419

American dollar prices x by 1.5, natch.

 In a pinch I could go down to London and explore there for something, but obviously local is easier. I could also go online, but I kind of want to see and hear what I’m buying (which is odd since I have absolutely no experience) and, y’know, support t’ High Street. Alternative suggestions welcome, natch. Any tips on what to look out for, too? I’m eager to learn, and happily working here in the music library we’ve got a decent stock of 5-string banjo learner books and CD’s and DVD’s, so there’s no problem there.

I really like this site, by the way. Hugely informative, but the reviews section is almost overwhelming.  

 Cheers and Regards,

 Nervous Pete

blockader - Posted - 01/31/2012:  07:58:03

deering goodtime all the way. also, clawhammer/old time is often VERY fast.

-justin

greenepickins - Posted - 01/31/2012:  08:24:36

definitely the goodtime!

Fathand - Posted - 01/31/2012:  08:26:03

Since you also like bluegrass, try to find a banjo with resonator that can be removed but does not have a flange to dig into your legs. This way you are equipped for both styles as did many old timers.  Beginner Resonator banjos are often cheaper than open backs and are a quicker sale should you ever want to upgrade.

banjoes - Posted - 01/31/2012:  10:04:09

Hi n'n'n' Nervous

Cardiff eh? That's where I first learned to play. In fact, several people called me one of the best banjo players in Cardiff. I think there were two of us at the time. 

Despite the fact that I've now got a room-full of posh American banjos the old beaters I keep to hand - and in grandchildren's range - are very playable old English banjos. Don't just look at expensive imports consider a vintage Windsor - before being bombed during the war perhaps the biggest manufacturer of banjos in the world - or the like. Probably best to steer clear of 'zither' banjos and - at first at least -  fretless banjos, though. These banjos and even vintage Victorian ones can be really good value (or if you're lucky like me you find them unwanted or folks give them to you). Have a look at Hobgoblin's used list on-line. Check out local junk shops too. Alright. these old instruments might take a little setting-up but, luckily, banjos are made of bits that can readily taken part and put together. You need a straight(ish) neck and a rim that's more-or-less in one piece - a bust skin head can easily be replaced with a modern plastic one and most sizes are stocked by on-line suppliers. Likewise with tailpieces, tuners, brackets, hooks etc. If you don't know how to set up an old banjo and don't have a knowledgeable friend or don't want to spend money on a professional luthier (not worth it IMO unless you find a high-end banjo) have a go at fixing it up yourself checking with the many excellent on-line how-to sites, including this one.

You can always buy the American dream banjo when you're a little further forward.

Just a thought and whatever you get, play and enjoy!

Greg

Edited by - banjoes on 01/31/2012 10:19:30

mikehalloran - Posted - 02/01/2012:  10:33:50

You want a banjo that is solidly built to learn on. For old time, an open back is normally preferred but there are many players who use resonators. There is no "one" ideal banjo.

You won't go wrong with a Goodtime. OTOH, I would be on the lookout for a vintage Windsor open back. I have really liked every one that I have seen in the States. I am a big fan of high quality non-Gibson banjos - mostly because the big G has enough fans.

Not all Windsors are so branded. If you see one of these in good shape for a decent price, you would be wise to snag it.

gryphonstrings.com/instpix/31271/31271.php

Helix - Posted - 02/01/2012:  14:00:47

First of all, Wales? Welcome, traveler.

Contact Countryfrank, he's in London. Why don't you put one together yourself. Otherwise the Ozarks are Chinese, like paddling a rowboat.

Not the Goodtime, not enough features. Look for a used banjo.

Also ask if your seller has a return policy, that should put you at ease.

Again, I believe the banjo should come to you either set up, or easy for you to dial in. Get a strap and a capo. Capo spikes at 7,9,10,12, good music.

Double rim rods instead of just one. Wooden rim with 24 brackets instead of an aluminum rim with 28.

You don't need no stinking resonator until later, if at all.

You'll learn a lot by asking here or conferring with people off forum.

I play clawhammer and frailing and up-picking and bluegrass, sometimes all in the same song. It's infectious, sometimes the banjo plays me.

( ))===='== ::}

banjoes - Posted - 02/09/2012:  11:14:50

Hi Pete

have you seen this banjo on ebay?

ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAND-CONCERT-5...213231184

This guy - no relationship - seems to be gradually selling his collection of top-end banjos. It has an excellent USA made neck and the rim is from a very good vintage English banjo. Postage is cheap and you will not have to pay the quarter again in tax and duty that you would on a USA import. Although as set up probably on the plunky side of the spectrum  it could be a bargain for someone.

Greg

Nervous Pete - Posted - 02/13/2012:  10:06:39

Hey guys, ta for the good advice here.

To be honest, I feel lost in the woods here. It's casting me back to the start of my main hobby, photography, where I was learning all these new rules and terminology. Photography is still my main love though, which is why I'm having to fight off a desire for a wide angle lens instead of a banjo to enjoy on rainy dull lit days.

It's the setting up that is slightly terrifying. At first I thought friend Helix was dictating that I ought to hire a Mafia captain to ensure that I stick to my lessons, but now I realise that a Capo is a clamp for curtailing the strings. Or something. This will be the first musical instrument I'll be learning so, er, yes. What features does the Goodtime Parlour lack, Helix? Not sure I'm ready to put one together either. One day, perhaps, if this works out for me! I'll take your advice on the Ozarks though and rule them out. 

Alas, I missed out on that deal Banjoes, though thanks for the heads up. I'm waiting on payday for this anyway, next Friday. Then it'll be a title fight between the twin desires of a Nikon lens or a banjo.

In banjo land these still waters seem to run deep...

banjoes - Posted - 02/14/2012:  04:51:12

Hi Pete

That banjo went for £262 - quite a bargain for someone.

American collectors/players do not normally like to bid for banjos in British auctions and the domestic competition (for banjos on Ebay) here is far less fierce than the USA. The same seller had a very nice fret-less for sale, but that probably wouldn't have suited you for a first banjo.

The trouble with buying USA made banjos here in the UK is the VAT import tax and postage, which tends to make them poor value. I have however bid for vintage Vega Tu-ba-phone pots and suchlike on Ebay that were (just about) worth importing after paying another third on top of bid price. 

I still think vintage English (the makers were all English to the best of my knowledge) banjos are probably the best value - you just pay for the banjo. Keep checking Ebay and if something catches your eye post it here for advice from members.

Don't give up trying!

Twangmeister - Posted - 02/14/2012:  10:22:59

Pete

I'm in the Uk and a Newbie like you and I lurked on the site researching my first banjo and I thought I'd pass on my very recent experience for what it's worth.

Originally I was interested in a short scale model for reasons I won't go into, but eventually decided on a full sized open back.

I decided I in the end that I wanted a maple banjo with twin coordinator rods and a brass tone ring and decided that the Ozark 2109 looked good. I did get to try one and liked it apart from the tail piece which I though looked ugly. In the end I went for an internet purchase of the Rally Delta Blue "Frailer #3" from Andy Banjo in Kent. This is the same banjo as the Ozark, in fact mine came with Ozark on the headstock, but has been upgraded with a Renaissance head and No knot tailpiece. It came extremely well set up with 5 string spikes fitted and other goodies and at a cost much cheaper than I'd seen elsewhere. I am completely blown away with it! It may be rather plain in appearance, but flashy instruments are not me anyway, and it sounds fantastic; bright but mellow with single notes chiming rather than sound shrill in any way. I believe this banjo is the same as the Gold Tone CC100, but £100 cheaper.

I'm not sure if this helps at all and have no experience of other makes or models in the UK, but my experience at buying mail order from Andy Banjo was very positive.

Andrew (no connection in any way)