R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 11/25/2011:  17:28:03

I have an H.C. Dobson with donut tone-ring and the metal plate

that extends out over the head.  Patent dates stamped into the dowel stick

are May 14, 1878.... November 8th, 1881.... and June 6th, 1882

It looks identical to the banjo on

pg. 115 of "America's Instrument" by Gura and Bollman,  but with small celluloid(?)

dots for position markers instead of the fancy inlay, and the rim is not etched as per the picture.

The serial number is 6412.

Any idea what year this instrument may have been made?

Thanks in advance for any info provided.

jbalch - Posted - 11/25/2011:  18:04:32

R.D.  the one I used to have was similarly marked.  it was serial number 6023. I never found a source to determine a date. Good luck with the hunt.

David McLaughlin - Posted - 11/25/2011:  22:37:03

Post some photos. Certain construction features help date the HCD Silver Bell banjos.

drjack - Posted - 11/27/2011:  07:19:51

where are the serial numbers located?

J

David McLaughlin - Posted - 11/27/2011:  07:34:41

On some HC Dobson banjos they are right on the back of the dowel-stick (the side you see). But the numbers can also be located in hidden places, like the front side of the dowel stick nearest the skin head (the side you can't see unless you use a mirror). Often the banjos have matching numbers at hidden areas of the various parts, such as on the underside of the metal striker-plate, the inside of the stretcher band, on the metal-clad rim where the neck joins. Sometimes the serial number consist of letters, too.

drjack - Posted - 11/27/2011:  09:16:41

On one of my Dobson's the number 6011 is faintly evident on the north side of the heel. Looks like they were punched individually.  I can't find a number on the other. It has a dowel like John's with a number of dates.I checked under the dowel but no number.  Disassembling it isn't an option.

Jack

drjack - Posted - 11/27/2011:  09:17:23

On one of my Dobson's the number 6011 is faintly evident on the north side of the heel. Looks like they were punched individually.  I can't find a number on the other. It has a dowel like John's with a number of dates.I checked under the dowel but no number.  Disassembling it isn't an option.

Jack

David McLaughlin - Posted - 11/27/2011:  13:52:18

Hey, Jack. You could try taking the four little screws out of the fingerboard strike-plate. On many (but not all) of the early to mid 1880s Silver Bells, the number is on the underside of that metal plate...not that knowing the serial number matters at this point. Without the H C Dobson records, they are rather meaningless. I certainly would not take a Silver Bell apart just to find a number. The patent dates do not indicate when the banjo was built. They were all built AFTER the latest patent date stamped...some quite a few years later.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 11/27/2011:  20:50:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by jbalch

R.D.  the one I used to have was similarly marked.  it was serial number 6023. I never found a source to determine a date. Good luck with the hunt.

 

---

 Thanks John, and everybody else.

My banjo looks similar to yours John (at least what I can see of it).  Mine actually has a regular heel rather than the "Dobson" heel though.

Mine also has a 6-pointed star inlaid in the dowel-stick rather than the three dots.  It also has the same star and a crescent moon inlaid in the peghead.

At one point, it was owned by a girl/lady named Stella (which of course means "star") so maybe she was partial to the inlaid stars.  She had signed her name with beautiful penmanship on the backside of the head and scratched her name into the ebony heel overlay.

Interesting that all three of our banjos have serial numbers that are not too far apart: 6011, 6023, 6412.

Thanks for the responses.

wbelm - Posted - 11/28/2011:  04:40:18

I am very interested in this thread.

Is much known or written about these banjos? Does data exist such as a list of extant serial numbers. In June 1978, Jim Bollman, Dick Kimmel and Doug Unger prepared a fantastic article for for Pickin' magazine "Vega / Fairbanks Banjos". Has similar work yet been done for the Dobson family of banjos? If not some folks should take it on. We need lots of photos, serial numbers....maybe a website like Greg Earnest has for Gibson banjos, a book, an article......something.

To my knowledge, the only Dobson info available to date is:
1886 (#186) catalogue reprint Victor Banjos - George C. Dobson, Boston, Mass.
"America's Instrument" by Phillip Gura and Jim Bollman - historic info
"Ring the Banjo" - the MIT exhibit.....small historic summary
"Banjos the Tsumura Collection" and "1001 Banjos" by Akira Tsumura - photographs of Dobson banjos

If something is out there that I am missing, please let me know.

eugene1978 - Posted - 11/28/2011:  05:33:41

I've been pondering such an idea (Dobson pics and info compendium) but there's so little known about ol' H.C. as a maker. It's quite obvious that the Buckbee factory was producing most if not all of what ended up labeled H.C. Dobson. Inlays and other details that show up across the Buckbee spectrum...Along with some others, I don't feel that the numbers on the scoop plates/rims are always serial numbers. Rather, I think they are often model numbers. I've owned two different pony Dobsons - one slothead, one early headstock (the bulgy one) - both numbered '30'. The details on these two were so different - they had clearly been made years if not decades apart...In any case, those four digit numbers simply don't appear on every Dobson unfortunately. Those patent dates mess everyone up...Anyway, they're awesome banjos. I was just marveling last night at my doublespun - such a shallow pot to put out so much sound...I noticed that Greg Galbreath just made a great repro of that feature (and of Richie Stearns' iconic Dobson).
buckeyebanjos.com/Latest%20Ban...2010.html (warning! You'll have to scroll past the ridiculously beautiful Cole #100)

drjack - Posted - 11/28/2011:  08:25:59

We could start with a "group" here on the hangout dedicated to HC banjos and try and get a database of pics and info from members.  Maybe with enough data and the resources available we can draw some conclusions.

J

henwaddle - Posted - 11/28/2011:  08:44:47

drjack I agree about starting a group and as a history professor eugene1978 you'd be just the guy to gather the research and publish something on the H.C. Dobson banjos.

David McLaughlin - Posted - 11/28/2011:  10:02:12

Of course, I'm only talking about Henry C, not the other Dobsons... There were no HC Dobson banjo "models". Each one is different, especially the early ones up to the late 1880s. The buckbee company did made most of the parts on most of HC's banjos, but most definitely did not make ALL the parts on any, and some rims and some necks were indeed made by other makers all together. It is true that on most HCD banjos, the neck blank, rim, and hardware (except tone ring and strike-plate) is blatantly Buckbee made. However, I'm fairly sure that the strike-plate, tone ring, and much of the custom work was often done after HC took possession of the banjos or parts of banjos. Buckbee did not simply build and hand over finished and ready-to-play Silver Bells. I'm basing my theories on 40 years of obsessive hands-on examination of hundreds of HC Dobson and non-Dobson Buckbee banjos. I still have found no sign of original records or shop notes, which would solve the mysteries and questions.

David McLaughlin - Posted - 11/28/2011:  11:26:39

Meant to say, "most definitely did not make ALL the parts on many", not "any".

wbelm - Posted - 11/28/2011:  14:29:51

David you may know the most about H C Dobsons of anyone around. I, and possibly most of us, have seen only a few examples, like about 10.....but would love to help

I just got off the phone with Doug Unger. I explained to him what we wanted to do, and asked him to explain how he and the others went about doing the same for the A C Fairbanks banjos which culminated in the fantastic Pickin' article. Remember Fairbanks had no catalogue of instruments to go by either. Doug said we needed to do as they did. Start by assembling photos serial numbers, individual characteristics, etc. into a mother list. In their case Jim Bollman kept the list and as Doug restored banjos, he would forward the info to Jim. He said that back then they would see incredible instruments at festival every weekend and enter that data. Doug noted that today folks don't even bring their good original stuff out, but we can share photos and all by internet.

jbalch - Posted - 11/28/2011:  16:36:04

I started a group as a gathering place to link all materials related to H. C. Dobson banjos.  Feel free to join in:  banjohangout.org/group/hcdobsonbanjos

Edited by - jbalch on 11/28/2011 16:36:33

David McLaughlin - Posted - 11/28/2011:  17:34:29

Hey, Bill. I have seen and held well over a hundred Silver Bells (not a difficult feat) in my 53 years alive, but still...I know too little about them. As a breed, they are not rare, yet no two are exactly alike, making each one one-of-a-kind. I agree that we should all work together to try to solve the mysteries with whatever knowledge we all gain individually by experience.

wbelm - Posted - 11/28/2011:  17:35:24

Thanks John.....I will be happy to join and will send you what I have....Bill

henwaddle - Posted - 01/24/2012:  11:12:12

Has this forum suffered cardiac arrest. There are a lot more members than there are posts. If those of you that joined would at least post pics of their Dobsons with a little narrative to accompany them, we'd all be the better for it.

dculgan - Posted - 01/24/2012:  12:45:51

Just noted the H C Dobson group. I uploaded a picture of mine. Dave Culgan

jbalch - Posted - 01/24/2012:  13:45:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by dculgan

Just noted the H C Dobson group. I uploaded a picture of mine. Dave Culgan

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 That is a great photo (cool looking banjo too)!

timmo_1949 - Posted - 01/24/2012:  16:11:39

I'm working on a 1867 patent Dobson right now. Highly original. Will be doing an article on it for my website in, oh, say a month. Quite an interesting piece. Sort of in the evolutionary path between the old Minsrel banjos and the 1890s banjo boom stuff. Looks like someone sat on this one about 1875.

Tim Smith
savethebanjos.com

dculgan - Posted - 01/25/2012:  04:44:39

Tim - love your website! Is the one you are working on fretted or flush frets? Hard to see from the pic but mine has the flush thin wood strips (holly?) inlaid. When I got this neck 20 years ago I wondered what the rim had looked like and after seeing pictures of an original I really would have liked to have had the whole thing, but my wood-working skills were not up to the task of making a reproduction thus the mongrel I've been playing. Now that I think of it I guess I did save this banjo but I confess to reshaping the heel a little to fit the rim. Dave