BanjoNeo - Posted - 11/19/2011:  10:17:27

I know that a skin head is going to cost more than a synthetic head.  Is it worth the upcharge?  

What are the tonal and volume differences between the two?  Is it a little or a lot more work to keep a skin head in tune?

What material is best in each category (i.e. goat, sheep, ??? for skin head  and what type of material for synthetic)?

Lastly, what about the OT mojo/cool factor of a skin head?

Jim Yates - Posted - 11/19/2011:  10:29:37

An old skin head that has stabilized is nice for old time music, but if you put a new one on and you do much parking lot pickin' at festivals during the evening when the humidity is high, you will find yourself adjusting the tension of your head...and don't forget to loosen it before the atmosphere dries out or you'll have a split head (the voice of experience here).  I find a fibreskin head suits me best, though I do have an old banjo with the original skin head, and it seems quite stable.  I found putting a new skin head on to be a two person job, but I've never tried putting on a pre-mounted one.

tdennis - Posted - 11/19/2011:  10:35:39

I prefer skin heads because the overtone series gives a richer voice w/ a more interesting character.  I have instruments w/ both calf & goat  & find them equally satisfying.  The climate of S Cal is dry , so they stay tight & just right.    Even when the humidity rises, I tend to play them the way they are, & rarely mess w/  tension.   Occasionally the humidity will drop to 20% or lower, that's when I will loosen the heads,  because they become vulnerable.  Mylar is convenient & super strong, but strikes me as one dimensional, &  strident ,  w/  a voice lacking in character.   The combination of skin & nylon/nylgut is especially nice, but I also use it on my jazz age banjos w/ steel strings. 

Edited by - tdennis on 11/19/2011 10:41:49

jbalch - Posted - 11/19/2011:  11:06:27

I like Hide heads. You can't beat the sound and feel of them.  IMHO they are well worth the cost and extra effort.

I'm linking this to the hide heads group: banjohangout.org/group/hideheads

Fathand - Posted - 11/19/2011:  12:13:22

I see Skin Heads starting at $9.00 and Synthetic at $15.00.  If you already have the fleshoop, skin heads can be cheaper.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/19/2011:  12:20:44

My preference is for skin heads. I use synthetic on my banjos that leave the house however, because I needed reliable instruments for gigs until recently. Now that I no longer gig at all, I'm going to start doing more skin heads. I might even eventually have nothing but skin head banjos again.

banjobarry1 - Posted - 11/19/2011:  12:32:15

I am partial to Calf Skin on older banjos. I like the feel , the sound , and the look. I have done one recently and found it fairly easy to install. I have a picture of it on my home page.

DEmery - Posted - 11/19/2011:  13:24:34

I was concerned with the idea of a skin head for years but have gotten rid of all my Mylar heads except for a 1929 Gibson used three finger. Some heads seem to be more prone to movement with humidity changes.I never expect a fresh head to be stable and it does take a while for them to settle down. Tone also improves drastically over a few days and for a period after installation. Dan Knowles has provided a Pakistani goat skin that transformed a Flesher banjo owned for years. John Balch has installed vellum processed skins on a couple of other banjos that are outstanding. If you are willing to go through a period of adjustment; my experience is the sound, feel, and appearance is excellent by comparison to synthetic heads. I live in Florida where humidity is high much of the year and dries out during the short winter season. I don't loosen them. I suppose anything can be tightened to the point of breaking and fail if humidity drops significantly. Bob Flesher told me once he puts on a skin, tightens it, leaves it alone. I have followed that and had no problems. David E.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 11/19/2011:  13:56:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by BanjoNeo

I know that a skin head is going to cost more than a synthetic head.  Is it worth the upcharge?  

 

 

---

 All of my banjos sport skin heads.  Mostly goat, but a couple calfskin.  I like the sound of both, so for me it has more to do with what look I want on a particular banjo.  The goat is more "rustic".

I have seen old banjos that sounded horrible with plastic heads and steel strings, become decent sounding instruments through the changeover to skin and nylon/Nylgut.

Installation of a skin is more tedious than difficult.  The only problem I have run into is when the fit between the rim and the tension hoop is too tight, though most modern banjos don't have that problem.

As for price, skins can actually be cheaper than plastic.  You should be able to get an unmounted skin for under $20 and often much cheaper.  If you have an ethnic drum and supply store anywhere nearby check them out.  They will often have dozens of heads to sift through.  The one in Portland has great prices especially if you buy in quantity....far below what mylar costs.

hweinberg - Posted - 11/19/2011:  14:55:42

Heads last a long time, so $/year are pretty small and not that different. The key question is what sound sound do you want from the banjo? I use a thin calfskin head on an old Tubaphone -- it's an old one that came on the pot. Plastic would be too bright for my taste on that banjo. I might even use a thicker calfskin. On a rosewood tone rim/pot I prefer a plastic head to make it a little less thumpy, i am thinking of a Remo like Dwight Diller used to use before he switched banjos and heads. But you might lie it just as it is. On an Enoch Tradesman I have a Rennaisance head. To me it sounds in between skin and plastic. But this is all changeble with dfferent strings, bridges and head tensions. Skin heads need more attention as humidity changes, but I have found skin heads more stable than i expected.

J-Walk - Posted - 11/19/2011:  15:54:49

I used to be a hard-core skin head guy. Mainly because I like how they look.

But I've had a few problems with skin heads during my brief career as a banjo freak. A few have them have just split on me, because I didn't pay attention to drastic changes in humidity. Others just got so soggy I couldn't even play. I recently replaced the skin head on my favorite banjo (Jason Burns) with a fiberskin. I can tell the difference when I'm playing at home by myself. But when I'm playing it in jam, nobody (even me) could tell the difference. 

My advice (take it or leave it): Use skin heads for banjos that you just play at home. If you take the banjo out to jams or performances, consider a plastic head. And trust me, nobody who's listening will ever notice the difference.

Also, there's a BHO group devoted to this:

banjohangout.org/group/hideheads

ZEPP - Posted - 11/19/2011:  16:02:17

OK, perhaps an unpopular opinion on an old-time forum, but someone needs to be contrary, so here goes:  With the exception of gourds and other "rustic" banjo, I definitely prefer plastic.  I find I like the crisper response and tonal clarity of Mylar far more than that of skin.  All of the personal instruments that I actually play have synthetic heads, mostly Renaissance.  I do have a few Fiberskyns, but I rarely play those banjos, and thus just haven't bothered to change them.

I have played a few skin-headed banjos that made me say "Well, this isn't too bad, even though it has a skin head " but most of the time my feeling is that just about any banjo sounds better with a synthetic head.

I am a firm believer (and have stated this here before) that if Mylar had grown on trees like Spanish moss, there would be a lot more cats alive today.

Cheers,

ZEPP

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/19/2011:  16:20:39

Back in the 1960s (We made our own amusements then) you would have been in the majority - at least among the Boston and NYC area banjo players I knew. They were all going to the new plastic heads and all said they preferred the sound. I had cleverly side-stepped the issue by dropping the banjo altogether for most of the changeover decade, but i have to admit that even as I was installing plastic heads on banjo after banjo I felt that sound was being lost on any of them I could play on before taking off the skin.

I bought a Whyte Laydie around 1976 and immediately put the original skin head back on it (I had changed it out for the former owner and knew which "pile" to rummage in). When that head died a couple winters later, during a sudden super-cold snap with the temp hitting minus 28 and the humidity getting near single digits, I put the plastic head back on, but it was never the banjo it had been with the skin head.

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 11/19/2011:  17:07:17

After being a dyed-in-the-wool calfskin head lover for over 40 years I finally gave up and switched over to Remo Renaissance heads on my clawhammer banjos as the hide heads self-destructed one at a time over a period of several years.

Although I still think that a really good hide head produces a better tone than any sort of plastic, it's been getting more and more difficult to find really high quality hide heads in recent years, the consistency from one to the next has gone straight to you-know-where, and the prices have risen almost as fast as the quality has dropped.

Mayhap I've just been spectacularly unlucky of late, but I haven't been able to find a calfskin head that will last me for more than a couple of years, whereas the old original Josh Rogers heads I used to favor would frequently deliver over 20 years of service before they finally went belly-up.   So after going through four supposedly top-quality calfskin heads on my favorite Whyte Laydie in a period of less than three years, I finally threw my hands up in the air and switched over to the new Remos.

One of my Tubaphones (the one which spends most of it's time in the case) still has a calfskin head, and it still sounds great that way.  But if it gives up the ghost  before I do, it too will get a plastic head.

~Pete

Paul R - Posted - 11/19/2011:  20:35:45

I had a skin head on the Orpheum and it split. The only thing I found to replace it was a standard Weather King. That thing's been on the banjo over thirty years. I'd probably split every skin head I bought - if I bought any. Constantly readjusting the banjo isn't something I'd be good at. That said, I think it sounded a bit better with the skin head. But the head isn't the only thing affecting the sound. There are many variables.

banjered - Posted - 11/19/2011:  21:42:46

I think skin heads have a better, warmer tone than plastic but on some banjos the renaissance head gives them a pretty good run for their money. Plus if you mess with the tension , stuffing the inside of the head, bridges etc. you can get pretty close to the sound you want with a ren head. Would a 12" ren head compare to a 10" skin head for a rounder sound? Maybe? 

Zepp likes Whyte Laydies and I suspect a brighter sound so I can see him leaning that way.  I also wonder that for some of us whose hearing isn't all that great  that maybe the brighter sound of a plastic head  is more "hearable" ( I can make words up, can't I?). Perhaps with poor hearing you lose some of the subtleties of skin. The best sounding banjo I ever had was a tubaphone with a skin head but got rid of because I didn't care for the neck. I'm older and lazier than ever so I use Ren heads now, but if I were recording or having people pay money to hear me, I would probably put up with the hassles of acquiring a super banjo with a skin head.  But for jamming, festivals, busking at farmer markets I'l stick with the ren heads for now. YMMV - Banjered

carlb - Posted - 11/20/2011:  06:10:43

Skin heads, but very thin (0.1-0.2 mm)

whyteman - Posted - 11/20/2011:  07:35:14

I prefer frosted plastic heads. As Zepp pointed out, the plastic allows for "tonal clarity" if that is what you desire.

Two reasons I like frosted:
1) Frosteds seem to help dampen the unwanted metalic overtones.
2) Part of the charm of the skin head is how they absorb oils and sweat and become stained. Every head looks different after a while. Gives your banjo a "visual DNA" if you will. The textured surface of a Frosty stains pretty well too. Even as you wear through to the smooth plastic. Mylar just doesn't get gross enough for me, and I don't care for the sound as much.

Don

WGE - Posted - 11/20/2011:  11:00:59

I now have four banjos.  Three openbacks and a gourd.  All have either goatskin or calfskin heads.  In the past I've had banjos with either Renaissance or Fiberskin heads and I didn't care for either, although the banjo itself could have contributed.  I guess that the "tonal clarity" a plastic head might bring is not the type of tone I am looking for.

Mark Johnson - Posted - 11/22/2011:  11:19:29

I'm with the Dons.  I like plastic, and like it quite a bit.

Most of mine have Renaissance.  As Zepp says, they provide a crispness with note separation that I look for.

I recently acquired a banjo with a frosted head and like it a lot too. It is similar to the Renaissance, but just tamped down a tiny bit as Whyteman described.

I do recognize the "mojo" of the skin head to a degree.  When I look at Jason Romero's banjos, for example, I'm always struck by the dramatic appearance of the heads.  But when I step back, I think the coolest thing is when you see a banjo that has been PLAYED, regardless of the head.  Consider:

That's street cred.

vrteach - Posted - 11/22/2011:  12:22:05

I'm also with Zepp, the Dons, and Mark. I mostly prefer plastic.

Chris Coole certainly has just about the ugliest banjo head around, but it's among the best sounding.

BanjoNeo - Posted - 11/22/2011:  12:34:37



​Mark:  Interesting that you should mention "Jason Romero's banjos" specifically . . . :~) .   Here's a shot of the build I took delivery of two just wks ago.  This goat skin head pictured inspired my initial post.  

​You wrote:  "When I look at Jason Romero's banjos, for example, I'm always struck by the dramatic appearance of the heads."  How does this one strike you?  

​Now I just have to play it as much as Chris Coole has his old Vega -- "street cred" indeed!

RWJones1970 - Posted - 11/22/2011:  13:17:09

I love and prefer the tone of a calfskin head but because I don't like to fuss around with continual setup I would rather keep a fiberskyn on my Fairbanks WL. I wish they would stain fiberskyn heads to look like Jason Romero's skin heads....those look sooo cool!

Edited by - RWJones1970 on 11/22/2011 13:26:53

ponty - Posted - 11/22/2011:  13:46:40

I recently put on a Bill Miller calf skin on my Reiter standard.

The result was, subjective of course, much better than the Ren. head it replaced.

Even here in humid Bermuda, I am impressed as to how stable it has been.

The exception to this was two weeks ago when me and some old folk went to play to some more old folk

and I couldn't keep it in tune. The outside air was just too much.

Otherwise it is great.

Emiel - Posted - 11/22/2011:  14:27:02

I like the Huber Remo top-frosted on my Deering Vega Tubaphone openback. The Ren. head is a bit sharp on this banjo, and the regular Remo top-frosted sound a bit colder than the Huber... The Huber (as the AMB) has a thicker frosting. A skin head sounded fine too, but it bottomed out after a while (Goldtone GTS).

mishe mokwa - Posted - 11/23/2011:  12:26:22

Where would you say the synthetic skins fall in the spectrum compared to the sound of a "renaissance?

stigandr5 - Posted - 11/23/2011:  13:44:51

I believe in medium thickness goatskin. While it's true that I've not been through too many winters and summers with them, I still feel like they remain pretty consistent over a long period of time.

Bart McNeil - Posted - 11/24/2011:  05:38:47

My feeling is that a skin head in general offers a more mellow tone.... a bit more laid back than a vinyl head. Since I never play in a group a skin head is perfect for my needs..

I have both skin and vinyl on my various banjos and move from one to the other depending on the rhe room i keep the instrument. My favorite banjo, a Washburn plectrum, has a vinyl head on it and I love the sound but I would lean toward skin if I had to choose. I also love to fuss with my banjos as the weather changes. So I guess I am a skin head kind of guy. The mirror tells me that too.

Bart McNeil - Posted - 11/24/2011:  05:53:50

mishe mokwa...

I think you are splitting hairs with your question.... and I think it is close to impossible to answer. No two banjos sound alike anyway and the variations in tone are likely to relate as much or more to the banjo construction as the head material. Heads are not so expensive that you cannot experiment with them, and I think that is the only way to know which sounds "better" for you in the long run.

JedMarum - Posted - 11/24/2011:  07:36:56

Generally speaking, I much prefer, prefer the sound of synthetic heads. I know and appreciate the sound of skin heads for some of the old-time set up banjos. I've played a few that I liked very much I know they can produce a beautiful sound- but I would never consider owning one.

I play a lot - I travel a lot and I play in a very wide range of environments. Skin heads are waay beyond my ability (or interest) to keep up. If I had the luxury of keeping a banjo at home with a skin head, I would consider it.

There is a pretty big difference in sound between the two categories. I have gotten used to the clean modern sound of the synthetic heads, so that is what my primary choice is - and that is where my style mostly takes me. I even use a very tight plastic head on my nylgut strung banjo.

The plastics are much more versatile and much more common. The skin heads are beautiful, but fit in a pretty small range of use, in my humble opinion.

whyteman - Posted - 11/24/2011:  19:13:07

Bravo to Mark's comment. The best heads, regardless of composition are the ones that look like they've had the heck played out of them. Great insight, Mark.

gailg64 - Posted - 11/24/2011:  19:47:03

To quote bluegrass musician Red Henry, "Some swear by skin heads and some swear at them." This is true with old-time banjo players as well...and probably more so since we so often play outdoors in the summer at night, and then the next day in 100 degree heat. 

quote:

---

Originally posted by BanjoNeo

I know that a skin head is going to cost more than a synthetic head.  Is it worth the upcharge?  

What are the tonal and volume differences between the two?  Is it a little or a lot more work to keep a skin head in tune?

What material is best in each category (i.e. goat, sheep, ??? for skin head  and what type of material for synthetic)?

Lastly, what about the OT mojo/cool factor of a skin head?

 

 

---

Quartermaster James - Posted - 11/26/2011:  11:05:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

  The one in Portland has great prices especially if you buy in quantity....far below what mylar costs.

---

Ahoy Mr. Lunceford!

Which store would that be, please? I'd like to pay them a visit.

majikgator - Posted - 11/26/2011:  13:29:26

i have no real preference and it depends a lot on the banjo and what kind of sound i am after, i have one with a regular white frosted head, one with calfskin (Bill Miller pre mounted, vellum treated) and one with a Renaissance head and i like all of them on each banjo for it's purpose. Natural skin heads are a more mellow sound but i like them stretched pretty tight and thin so i get some brightness from them as well. i like the look of the Renaissance heads even when they are worn and dirty they still look nice.

tubaphone - Posted - 11/30/2011:  06:10:46

A really satisfying skin head tone can be obtained by spray-painting the back of a Fiberskin head to add weight and mass. I use Krylon lacquer in a light tan color. This results in a very rich skin-like sound that works particularly well on my '28 Tubaphone 3 and my '25 Whyte Laydie pots.