ken61 - Posted - 02/25/2012:  17:39:22

Still working on the finish of PolyUrethane..  Apply finish, apply finish, apply finish , apply finish, sand lightly, apply finish etc.

It is building and looking good.!

I have used only dots to mark the fretboard.  I must practice the inlay --I'm a wood guy.

The fretting the fretboard now.  I have 9 frets left to do.  The picture says it.  Each had thin CA glue run down the edges.  The fretboard will be scraped free of any residue after the fretting is completed.

Notice in the pic, one fret is somewhat long on the left, this will be corrected later.

I have veneer gluing from which to make a truss rod cover.  Four sheets of veneer curly makore.  It will be scrollsawed to make a cover--of what shape , I do not know yet.  If this doesn.t work, I will try something else.

The tuners are all installed and this puppy is ready very soon for strings.

The resonator brackets have been screwed to the rim and the hardware has been applied to the inside of the resonator.

I must say the quality of the hardware for which you pay considerably, is quite poor.  I had to use a tap on the resonator lugs and a die on the screws before they would fit.  We have done two sets so far and needed to do this on both--likely will need to do it to the other two sets.  Quality control by end user!

Except for little errors which likely nobody but us will ever see or know about, all four banjos are going very well.  Peter is inlaying with real Ivory--he has his pieces already cut and ready to inlay.

Necks are being carved--we place a sacrificial fretboard with binding on the neck blank and carve it to nearly correct dimensions--remove that fretboard and apply the real fretboard --then do final sculpting and sanding.  The sacrificial fretboard is moved from neck to neck as the builder gets ready to sculpt.

It is interesting to note how the necks were carved.  One was done using an air die grinder and a rasp head, one was done using a sanding drum in a drill, and one was done using a benchtop drum sander (motor with double shaft and an inflatable drum on each side.

It seems the drum sander (inflatable) was the fastest way to go.

Pics on the other necks will follow shortly!

ken

Edited by - ken61 on 02/25/2012 17:41:31

BNJOMAKR - Posted - 02/26/2012:  07:37:48

Looking good Ken! Here's a tip you might can use when making/inlaying dots. It's not my idea, but it works really good. Select a brad point drill bit the size that you want the dot to be. Cut out some square pieces of pearl from stock, slightly larger than the drill diameter. Super glue the piece of pearl on the shank end of the drill bit. Mount the bit in a drill press, and rotate the drill while sanding it down to the drill diameter. Pop off the pearl dot which is now the same size as the drill. Then use the drill to drill the recess for the pearl dot in your finger board. It makes for an (almost) perfect fit... looks CNC! That's the way that I do the dots for my pearl flowers. See the attached pictures. 

If you can't find a brad point bit the right size, you can grind a normal bit to a brad point using a dremel tool with a grinding/cut-off disc. 

Marvin

LB-077	LB-078	LB-079	LB-081
LB-075	LB-082

ken61 - Posted - 02/26/2012:  10:04:59

WOW, what a really useful  idea.  Thank you for sharing!

Simple , yet effective and without the need for anything special.

I am going to get some pearl and practice inlay for my NEXT banjo--I really want to do the vine idea.

thanks

ken

Dave1climber - Posted - 02/26/2012:  12:02:49

Marvin

What a wonderful, simple tip.  The best tips are easy and simple.  Thanks

Ken 

Keep up the good work, can't wait to see finished banjos and hear sound files.

Dave

ken61 - Posted - 02/28/2012:  05:20:58

Its a BANJO.

Of the four banjos, mine is completed and I played it for the last two days.  Wonderful.

I added spikes  fifth, seventh and ninth.

Had to take some height off the nut to get the strings proper height with a 5/8 inch bridge of my design and construction.

Noticed one of the tuner knobs has no screw--quality control by end user again.

A bit of rubbing to do on the finish on both the neck and the resonator and it will be ready for show and tell.

Oh, felt around the resonator notch is the final touch.  In case anyone has had trouble finding heavy felt, find a school chalkboard eraser --plenty of thick felt there.  Get one fast if you need to because there are not too many chalkboards left in schools today.

Or find a felter--an artist who works in felt and makes their own felt--they are quite common in artist circles.

Pictures soon and sound files too.  Need to make a logo for the inside.

ken

ken61 - Posted - 02/29/2012:  16:23:15

Here are some pics of the resonator with more finish  applied.  There are about 30 coats of poly  (wipe on)  applied and continuously sanded flat before applying more.   It is a chore to get this right.

Sorry, the pics have problems there is glare etc.  But the maple curl is dynamite.

I will polish it , wax it and put it together--notice the resonator lugs are installed.  The trick here is to get them in the right position and use the right drill size for the threaded portion of the lug.

ken

ken61 - Posted - 03/01/2012:  08:15:21

Here are some pics--not the best, but better will take longer.

The trussrod cover looks lopsided in the pic.  I need to find screws to get it attached --it is just setting there.

Sorry for the glare everywhere.  I will try to get better pics.

ken

Edited by - ken61 on 03/01/2012 08:18:12

pastor99 - Posted - 03/01/2012:  08:56:47

Beautiful!

Quickstep192 - Posted - 03/01/2012:  09:08:11

I flat out love the color and the workmanship is nonpariel. The clear head showing off the inside of the resonator is awesome too.

I'm struggling to develop a dye combination to make maple mimick mahogany for my current project. Maybe I should just go with blue!


PS Ken,

I'm going to renew my request for a photo album showing all of the jigs you made.

ken61 - Posted - 03/01/2012:  10:05:43

Color

You can airbrush inks to get nearly any color you desire.  They are controllable and blend-able. 

Google Dr. PH Martin inks and dyes .

I will get to the JIG postings soon, but not until after April 1 which is the weekend for the big woodworking Show--I am the General Chair and this takes much of my time.  I was trying to get this banjo finished to be displayed in the show.

nwawoodworkingshow.org

ken

Paulf - Posted - 03/01/2012:  13:21:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by pastor99

Beautiful!

---

 Agree, very unique and looks amazing.

Paul

ken61 - Posted - 03/02/2012:  06:33:15

Ok, maybe its time to "fess up"!

What did I learn which might have caused me to do something differently if I was a first time builder.  I am not a first time builder, but this thread was begun to help those folks with little experience so, this is advice to first time builders.

These are just things to consider, they are not absolutes by any means.

1. Consider   buying a $600 new banjo and stripping the parts--sell the wooden parts to recover some cost..

2.   Curly maple is pretty, but is difficult to work

3.  staining or coloring is not an easy process to get right--you can otherwise ruin a beautiful resonator, neck etc by coloring it.

4.  Consider using spray nitrocellulose lacquer (minwax in a can) with Deft lacquer sanding sealer under it.  You can get the high gloss finish of sprayed polyester--not as durable and as we know it will go gummy on the neck over the years---but it is EASILY removed and reapplied to new condition.  Polyurethane and polyester etc is nearly impossible.

5.  Build good jigs--keep them simple but functional.

6. If you are not experienced in inlay, either go simple or get experienced first--that fretboard can be removed, but you will not like doing it.

7. Test all operations first on scrap wood--test your jigs, your finish, your inlay, and your fretting.

8. Make a plan--get a plan --and set a timeframe which is reasonable.

9.  If you intend to turn the rim yourself and you are not experienced, get some help--the woodturning skills needed are simple and few.  Some of the ways I see here on the hangout scare me--just dangerous. 

10.  If a joint is not right,  don't settle--re do it.

11.  read the posts on the hangout--sort the info into useful and reliable and not.

12.  Seek other sites with building info there are many of them.

12.  Ask questions on the hangout of members whose thoughts you respect and can rely on.

13.  Enjoy the journey!

I offer these suggestions such that your first build will be successful and a pleasure since , if it is not, you will not likely do it again thus missing out on the pleasure of many banjos in the house!

enjoy

ken

ken61 - Posted - 03/04/2012:  04:23:39

Well, Dan is back from Florida and the entire Banjo Buddies Group will be here today.  We need to get Dan's banjo up to speed .  He is still dealing with the resonator which will go through the same process as the others We have shown here.   We will get dan working on his fretboard and neck ASAP.  Peter has begun to put the polyurethane finish on and has begun to discover the joys of that process.

It is all coming together-- at different times and this was good as it allowed us to use our resources to best advantage.

We will have pics after today!

ken

Dave1climber - Posted - 03/04/2012:  06:00:18

Ken

I think  that you will make your March 31 dead line, keep up the good work.  

ken61 - Posted - 03/04/2012:  12:27:58

Here is Peters Resonator and birds eye maple peghead.

Peter's fretboard will be bound in maple

No stain on peters banjo just clear finish.

ken

ken61 - Posted - 03/04/2012:  12:31:19

Dan's resonator is cherry  --here are sme pics including one in the jam chuck.  Notice the paper towel used to pad out the holding.

pastor99 - Posted - 03/04/2012:  15:11:37

May I ask what "pad out the holding" means? Please use short words and type slowly. ;-)

ken61 - Posted - 03/04/2012:  15:41:41

:)   :)   :)

Sorry.  When making a jam chuck, a mortise is cut into a piece of wood held on a faceplate at exactly the size of the turning you wish to "JAM" into that mortise to hold it.  This mortise must be TIGHT in order to hold the turning such that it can be turned without falling out and off the lathe.

Sometimes the size of the mortise gets just a "little"  too big and it will not hold the piece tight enough.  So the mortise is made smaller (just a little) by padding it with Toilet paper or paper towel around the edge so that the padding takes up space which tightens the holding power of the jam chuck.

ken

pastor99 - Posted - 03/04/2012:  15:51:00

Aha! So the piece of waferboard? actually has a hole cut in it that is the size of the resonator and the resonator is jammed into it, right?

ken61 - Posted - 03/04/2012:  16:28:10

Yes, this is correct.  Jammed in--thus JAM chuck.   It is QUICK self aligning and if made correctly is very strong.

ken

Dave1climber - Posted - 03/04/2012:  20:53:19

I do like Dan's resonator and his peg head.    Very nice!!   His selection of a clear finish is gorgeous.

Edited by - Dave1climber on 03/04/2012 20:56:42

ken61 - Posted - 03/07/2012:  19:48:58

As I said before, you will see and hear about the good, the bad, and the ugly in this thread on Building .

I receive a call from Rich the other day regarding his neck which he was sanding into final shape.

He was not happy as he had come through the bottom of the neck at about the first fret and into the tension rod cavity.

I go to see the neck this evening and it is somewhat of a disaster.  You can look at the back of the neck and see the tension rod just under the first fret.

There is no simple way to fix it so a restart of the neck is in order.

I will ask Rich to allow me to try to fix the neck as an experiment in severe repair.

I did not get a chance to get a pic, but I will and I will post it here.  This is not the good or the bad, but the UGLY!

Then again we will ALL learn from this that the tension rod is sometimes very close to the bottom of the neck --to within 1/8 th inch when the neck has been finally profiled.  

We will also learn if this is possible to fix--not that we will use the fixed neck, but just to see if it can be done.  I have several ideas for doing this repair.  We have wonderful saws and wonderful glues today .  And WE ARE WOODWORKERS--it is what we do.

And, YOU ALL get to watch and learn too.

ken

ken61 - Posted - 03/09/2012:  09:13:54

Here is an idea.  Sombody on a post regarding bridges suggested an all ebony bridge.

Well, why not a Bridge of a different color.  Traditional bridge wood can be easily dyed any color !  The characteristics of the bridge should not be affected in any way.

This one is dyed BLACK--INK JET PRINTER INK

Afterwards, I pondered dying it GREEN to match the banjo.

The plastic sleeves over the strings at the tailpiece are just colored tubing of plastic.  I need to change these to green next time I change the strings.

Comments ???

ken

Quickstep192 - Posted - 03/09/2012:  09:49:48

As I've said a few times before, I think the green dye job looks awesome. I think it would look stellar if you dyed the bridge green too. If you had a piece of maple with some figure where you could dye it, sand back and then dye again to show off the figure, that would look even better. I realize I'm being a bit free with your time, but what the heck!

ken61 - Posted - 03/10/2012:  15:54:04

Time to cross that bridge

Here are some Bridges I have built in the past and some just under construction.

I have a block of  wood with the proper grain which I keep for bridges , in general.  I cut a slab from this block (pictured in the past in this thread.  Then I glue on a strip of Ebony ---or rosewood--or whatever I decide to try.

You can see one bridge of a grey color.  It is of colorwood.-- some type of wood colored and laminated.  The laminations run along the length of the bridge.    I know, I know--it is just for fun --maybe you find a diamond--maybe a rock.

But the others are quite nice and do wonderfully well.  They do as well as any I have purchased.   I do not subscribe to the notion that one bridge sounds good on everything --not even an expensive one made in a hollow tree by elves.  These are so easy to make, you can play and have fun and see what you get.

They are tapered top to bottom on a belt sander with a plate which is raised at the rear to give it a tilt.  Nothing magic--just fun.

Oh, One of them was dyed GREEN.  More fun.

Tomorrow I will post the pic of the neck which was sanded tooooooo thin at the first fret exposing the tension rod.--ouch!   We start that one over tomorrow.

ken

Edited by - ken61 on 03/10/2012 15:55:21

Dave1climber - Posted - 03/11/2012:  07:29:44

Ken

Have you thought about adding a back strap to that damaged neck?

ken61 - Posted - 03/11/2012:  11:07:08

As promised, here is the neck which one of the guys thinned out too much.  Rich plans to use it as a baseball bat when the weather n NY warms up!

Today we spent gluing up another neck blank for Rich.  This neck was Sepele and maple, the new one is real mahogany and maple.  Since the resonator is real mahogany and maple we figured this is better.  With a caution not to get too aggressive with the sander, Rich is going to put some extra time into the new neck to get it up to speed.

We get time to chat about things banjo at lunch and we are all planning to go to Cafe Lena on May 4 for  Tony Trischka and Territory performance and then on May 5 for something called the Banjo Summit with many local banjo players performing.  Two nights of BANJO Music !  :)  :)  There is a great deal of bluegrass and banjo in our area.  Grey Fox is just down the road this summer.

We four have made arrangements to have banjo lessons together  twice a month from the same teacher who got three of us started some years ago.  This will be great fun.

ken

Edited by - ken61 on 03/11/2012 11:07:56

ken61 - Posted - 03/13/2012:  05:15:39

This banjo building MUST be a sickness as I find myself already designing my next banjo.  The desire seems to be , How to stuff into the next banjo  ALL the things you learned in building ALL those  before.

MAYBE this is why some banjos seem to be so fancy!

ken

ken61 - Posted - 03/18/2012:  16:46:42

Ok, BANJO BUDDIES met today and we made progress.

! fretboard was glued on and one nut of Bone was sanded to fit,

The two other necks are being finished.  The fret wires are being prepared on one end to be installed.

The neck which was sanded too thin at the first fret exposing the truss rod has be re done and is up to speed.

We will meet this Thursday evening to get some extra time.  Sorry , we were too busy to take pictures.

I did however do some work on my banjo which I was not intending to do until I read another post here on the BHO.

The post referred to a fifth fret modification by adding a little height to the fifth fret under the fifth string.

What a great idea.  Here is what I did.  This is NOT my idea and you should check out the post in this forum regarding this idea.

I took a piece of brass tubing maybe 3/32 in diameter and ground away 1/2 of the tube so the piece was a "U" shape.

I cleaned up the edges, filed the ends square, and made it about 1/4 inch long.  This U shaped piece fit over the top of the fifth fret under the fifth string just raising it the thickness of the tubing wall.

I will super glue it to the fret.

Apparently others have done this for some time.

Here is a pic

ken

ken61 - Posted - 03/22/2012:  17:21:59

OK, we spent the evening catching up.

We worked on two necks--fine tuning the shapes and getting the heels cut to fit the pots.

Again I promised the good the bad and the ugly, so here it is.

On one neck Peter shaped the heel too far to the rear--by about 1/2 inch--This simply makes his heel a little short. It will not come out of the resonator as far.

It will work. We are working under some pressure trying to finish by MArch 30 and the big woodworking show in Saratoga Springs, NY where these banjos will be on display.

Truth is they may be on display unfinished.

We were moving so fast tonight we did not get pictures.

Pics to follow Sunday !!

ken

ken61 - Posted - 03/25/2012:  16:43:20

OK, lots of progress today.

Rich got his fretboard glued on the the neck.  Notice the wonderful clamp of electrical tape.  It stretches and is just wonderful.  Two views in the pics.

The other pic is of Rich holding the biding while the CA glue dries just at the fifth fret. 

ken

ken61 - Posted - 03/25/2012:  16:45:37

Peter the first time the neck and pot are married together.  Is that a SMILE I see.

ken

ken61 - Posted - 03/25/2012:  16:47:44

The neck heel is being drilled for the lag screws.

Full length view of the jig.

ken

pastor99 - Posted - 03/25/2012:  19:38:31

What fun!

ken61 - Posted - 04/05/2012:  18:45:36

Well,the show was a great success and the banjos made it to be displayed in various stages of construction.

Here are some pics at the show.

We will be back at the shop finishing them up not this week , but next.

I will continue this thread until all are finished and we have a final pic of each and some sound files.

OUch  There seems to be a server problem at BHO--I could not upload the pics.

ken

5strings3picks1banjo - Posted - 04/06/2012:  02:49:53

Hi Ken. We met on here some years back and you own banjo looked great then. Keep up the nice work.

ken61 - Posted - 04/08/2012:  11:33:56

Looks like the server is back !

Here are the pics I promised

ken

aeroweenie - Posted - 04/11/2012:  20:09:30

Maybe it was more useful/interesting to visitors that the banjos were in various stages of construction.  Is "Greenie" finished?  I'd like to see more detailed pix of that one in particular.  What tone rings and hardware did you use?

ken61 - Posted - 04/12/2012:  07:46:07

paul

Grennie is basically finished and playable.   One of the others is finished and two are still in progress.

The three will need to be fine tuned as to string height etc.

We meet this Sunday to move forward on the three.

When finished we will post finished pics of all three and some sound posts of each.

I believe you have just named my green banjo----"Greenie"

"Grennie"  has a maple blocked rim , a curly maple and bubinga resonator, and a curly maple neck.

The green is airbrushed dye and ink along with some black for contrast.

All metal parts were obtained from Stewmac and First Quality Music.

The tonering was purchased some years ago from ebay and is brass with nickel plate.  It is nothing special , but the banjo in general sounds great and I am most pleased.  It also plays all the songs my other banjos play --which is a plus.  :)  :)

I will likely continue to make banjos until one of them plays Foggy Mountain Breakdown perfectly.  :)  :)

ken

5 finger ninja - Posted - 04/12/2012:  13:08:11

wish i could do that!! very nice :)

ken61 - Posted - 04/15/2012:  14:15:23

Well, we met again today three of us.  Dan was unable to attend.

Rich worked on the final shaping of his neck and final sanding as well as drill the holes for the tuners.  Sorry no pics of this.  Rich will cut the heel next and attach the neck to the finished pot.

Peter has it all finished.  We spent the session today doing the set up of the entire banjo.  Everything came out pretty good.  We will let the strings pull on the neck for awhile and then do any minor adjustments in a week or two.  Three pics of Peter's banjo are included.

Peter has already mentioned he will build another !  There is something about this process that attracts us to it.

Two more to get finished and adjusted.  Lessons for the group begin this Friday at 9:30 AM .  We are all excited to begin the lessons.

ken

ken61 - Posted - 04/22/2012:  16:03:50

Well, today we made some slight progress on two of the banjos.

A peghead was shaped and a we began to cut a heel.

Some sanding was done on the resonator of another as well as the brackets and lugs installed on the rim and resonator of the second banjo.

It was all slow going today.  Sorry no pics, but these two banjo will be looking just great in a week or two.

ken

Kirk Jacobs - Posted - 04/22/2012:  19:13:47

Another fine looking banjo. Thanks for sharing.

ken61 - Posted - 04/29/2012:  14:50:39

Well, we were at it again today for several hours.

We have two banjos totally finished and two in progress very near completion.

Dan and Rich worked on their banjos today.  Dan  actually finished his neck fretting. today.

He will work on the nut before next week.

Pictures show some of this work being done by Dan.   His neck of sepelle and maple burl peghead  veneer came out quite well.

ken

ken61 - Posted - 04/29/2012:  14:57:07

Rich did some heel work today.  We cut the heel , marked the position of the heel lugs, and glued on a heel cap.

The heel cap is ebony to match the fretboard.

Rich did some last minute thinning of the heel profile.  He will finish carving the heel over the week.

BTW:  the banjo buddies all four of us will see Tony Trischka and Territory this Friday evening at Caffe Lena in Saratoga Springs, NY.    We are excited  and we will say hello from all of us on the hangout.

ken

aeroweenie - Posted - 04/29/2012:  20:11:34

Good progress, your pix in this thread are very informative.  Tony Trischka is one of my favorite Bluegrass banjo players ( I know he plays more than Bluegrass).  You will have a marvelous time!

ken61 - Posted - 04/30/2012:  06:19:50

I should have mentioned in the pic above about gluing the heel cap.  The trick to any gluing is getting the two surfaces perfectly flat.  Then clamp the joint together WITHOUT GLUE and take a look at it.   Remember that old saying  "flatten twice, glue once"  or was that about another process??  But it applies to gluing.

Put the glue on BOTH sides and clamp.

This advice applies to any gluing , not just banjos or heels of banjos.

ken

ken61 - Posted - 05/10/2012:  13:06:03

Sorry for the fact there has been no posting of this project in some time, but life gets in the way especially when there are four of us involved .

We will continue soon and I will keep everyone posted as promised until the four banjos are finished completely.

BTW:  We four hired a teacher for 2.5 hours every second Friday morning from 9:30AM to 12 noon.  We all meet together and have a long lesson.  The teacher is great--teaches tab and notation and we are all having a blast.  We have a dropbox on the internet where we share tabs and music, and lots of other stuff music related.  I digitally record the lesson and then post it to the dropbox so everyone has access to the recording of the lesson.

The last two banjos are almost done.  One simply needs setup and some pearl dots, and the other needs the neck attached and then some fretting and pearl work.

ken

pastor99 - Posted - 05/10/2012:  14:12:30

Thanks again. I took the banjo apart that I had built before you started your project. I had made a lot of mistakes but decided to go ahead and finish it all the way, then go back and start over. The neck to rim fitting was the real troublesome thing. After I took it apart I tried making a sanding jig for the neck to rim that you had shown. That did help and it might work for my next one. Really enjoyed watching this progress.