Wasburn - Posted - 10/18/2011:  14:02:30

Hi.

Id like to build my own banjo in the near future. Other than deciding which kit to go with(I think im gonna go with Gold Tone but if ya'll have any other suggestions please send them my way) I cant decide how I want to finish it. Ive narrowed it down to tung oil or Tru oil. I'd appreciate it if ya'll could post some pics of various Tru oil and Tung oil finish examples.

Thank you.

TheBanjoDoctor - Posted - 10/18/2011:  14:04:50

i used formbys low gloss on mine.  i built mine all out of stew mac parts and a saga neck from anthill music.  and ive used it on many restorations and repairs.  the stuff works great.  thats what i would use if i was you. 

scooter46 - Posted - 10/18/2011:  14:15:29

I just finished a banjo and used tru oil, that had to be the best finishing product I've ever used it was easy to use no mess a good hard finish, not to glossy and the best part it looks great here is a picture of it. I don't think I'll ever mess with stain or dye and lacquer again. Larry

LNP - Posted - 10/18/2011:  15:00:54

Here's the banjo I built from scratch, it is finished with tru oil applied with my finger. It doesn't get much easier than that. Larry

Tom190 - Posted - 10/18/2011:  15:05:12

Ernest M - Posted - 10/18/2011:  15:22:13

If you want a high quality kit, you should contact Bill Rickard (banjohangout.org/myhangout/hom...p?id=2159) here on BHO.  He is making some really fine kits that are fully customizable. His components are used by professional builders all over the place. 

Edited by - Ernest M on 10/18/2011 15:22:36

jay_m - Posted - 10/18/2011:  16:05:46

i recently switched from tru oil, which i had been using for years, to waterlox, which is a tung oil-based varnish. i like the way the waterlox goes on and the way way it dries a lot better, and i like the overall feel of the finish more. but its not a huge difference. both are great products, and can produce a wonderful finish if applied carefully and properly.

Waltj - Posted - 10/18/2011:  17:25:44

I used Tru oil on my built from scratch banjo. I wouldn't use anything else.

Walt

Side of the Pot

Back of resonator

aeroweenie - Posted - 10/18/2011:  19:15:59

I just completed my second banjo, both were finished with Tru Oil. I am sure there are other finishes just as good or better, but Tru Oil is certainly easy for newbies. I have no woodworking/finishing experience and used Tru Oil without a problem.

OK-4 - Posted - 10/18/2011:  19:40:25

I used tung oil to complete a "mountain banjo" (a Frank Proffitt style banjo with lots of very visible wood around the head) and the tung oil finish worked wonderfully. I used many coats to build up to a glossier finish.

Muddy Roads - Posted - 10/19/2011:  06:37:48

I have used Tru oil for many banjos. I first tried Tung oil, but you need to dumb it down a bit with mineral spirits to your liking, because it's very viscous and won't get in the wood cells or pores like tru oil. Also, tru oil builds a gloss up much faster. It's up to you whether to steel wool between coats to keep the gloss down a bit.
over all, i prefer tru.


calkinsbanjos.com

jay_m - Posted - 10/19/2011:  06:41:40

There is a big difference, however, between pure tung oil and a tung oil varnish like waterlox. Same goes for tru oil, which is linseed-based, and linseed oil.

So far in my experience, the application process is exactly the same for both waterlox and tru oil. I would even go so far as to say that waterlox dries a little fast between coats, and has a thinner feel that is less prone to drips and pooling in little blobs. There are, however, many fomulations of waterlox to comply with low VOC regulations. I use the original sealer/finisher mix, with the highest VOC levels.

Here's a cherry banjo I just finished with waterlox

Edited by - jay_m on 10/19/2011 06:43:25

Quickstep192 - Posted - 10/19/2011:  12:35:09

I love these rare occasions where someone posts about something I actually know something about; my opportunities to contribute are all too rare............





Stuff labeled 100% Tung Oil is indeed tung oil and nothing but tung oil. In it's pure form, it takes a long time to dry between coats; normally it's thinned and driers added to speed the cure, but it still takes a long time. Achieving gloss takes time and work, but it's stunning once complete.



Boiled Linseed oil is linseed oil that's chemically altered to start curing once exposed to air. This helps it cure faster. The rub against Boiled Linseed oil is that it supposedly turns very dark over time.



According to its MSDS, Tru-Oil is a proprietary variant of boiled linseed oil. I'm guessing it must have at least some resin in it since it builds a surface finish. I just got some and I can't wait to try it. Before buying it, I read everything I could since it seems to be the easiest finish in the world to apply and acheive good results. After all my reading I really couldn't find anyone who had a bad thing to say about it. As I said, I can't wait to try it.



By definition, a varnish is a mixture of oils, resin and some kind of evaporative thinner. Sometimes chemical driers are added to speed curing. Finishes labeled "Tung Oil Finish" are often mixtures of oils, most often linseed oil, resins and some tung oil. They are really just varnish that's thinned to make application easier. It's rare for tung oil to be the predominant oil. Waterlox is the exception.





Waterlox is varnish, which means it's a combination of oil and resins, but in the case of Waterlox, the only oil they use is tung oil. They offer it in a variety of finishes from matte to gloss. The variable is the percentage of solids. The higher gloss formula will produce gloss with fewer coats. The thing I like about the "original" formula is the control you get when applying multiple coats. Eventually, it will build high gloss, but you get to see how much gloss you've achieved after each coat; if you like it, stop. If you want more gloss, apply another coat. Also, the tung oil in Waterlox really makes a beautiful, warm finish as evidenced b Jay_m's teriffic work.



Unlike Lacquer, varnish doesn't bond to the prior coat by partially re-dissolving it. It's more of a mechanical bond. Each coat is a distinct layer. Because of this, it's tricky to rub out. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's not meant to be rubbed out. If you're rubbing out and you go through the top layer, you'll see a line where the last coat and the second to last coat met. It's called a witness line and you'll play hell getting rid of it. The best solution seems to be to get that last coat on nice and smooth and leave it alone.



Just in case things weren't confusing enough, don't rule out shellac!



One cautionary note. Rags soaked in linseed oil or tung oil and in some cases varnishes can really spontaneously combust. Take care to dispose of them properly.

Edited by - Quickstep192 on 10/19/2011 12:47:17

jay_m - Posted - 10/19/2011:  12:43:17

excellent post!

Wasburn - Posted - 10/19/2011:  15:24:12

I really appreciate ya'lls input. Please keep the examples coming!

Id much prefer the look and feel of natural wood as opposed to shellac, clear coat and varnish. Looks too plastic-y.

Ive read peoples input on here and various other sites Google brought up concerning tung, linseed, or tru-oils.

Linseed seems to be at the bottom run of the ladder because it apparently never fully dries(even boiled doesnt, it will remain stick to some degree, so they say) and it is prone to "yellowing" over time.

Tung oil(pure) is great but its doesnt dry very fast, which Im fine with. If it takes me 3 weeks to stain it then it'll take 3 weeks. But from the various sites Ive read, its been said that it can yellow slightly over time and a lot of people recommended re-oiling once a year to keep its finish maintained. I dont know if Id want to have to tear the banjo down completely once a year.

So I guess Tru-oil is the winner, for now.

I just really want something that really accents the grain of the wood, has little gloss and, as I stated earlier, keeps the wood feeling natural.

Helix - Posted - 10/19/2011:  16:30:42

I've used Tung Oil only, you have to wipe it off, and so on, but when you get done, you have a dry, natural, waterproof, repairable finish that you can steel wool all you want, or buff out.

A Woodworker's magazine article shared by a friend shows a photo magnified to 30 power, tung oil is shown to be the best waterproof sealer, and Tru oil is shown to be #2. Ease of buildup and re-application factor in, many banjos are playin' Tru oil this instant.

Well written quickstep

rudy - Posted - 10/20/2011:  07:25:54

"I just really want something that really accents the grain of the wood, has little gloss and, as I stated earlier, keeps the wood feeling natural."...

Wasburn, I would recommend you purchase a small bottle of Tru-oil and experiment on a bit of scrap wood to evaluate the results.  I've done a bunch of Tru-oil finishing in the past and I'd hesitate to say it was a finish that "has little gloss".  When enough coats are applied to give enough build to produce a protective finish the result will be a fairly high gloss finish.  It can be dulled with 0000 steel wool, but areas that are in contact with clothing or hands will polish to a fairly high luster after a while.

Someone with more experience with formulation might clarify the difference between gloss and matt finishes, but it's my understanding that finish formulations have actual "matting agents" included that refract the light that passes through them to reduce the gloss effect.  These are separate additives and have no correlation to the percentage of solids in the product.

Have fun with your project!

Edited by - rudy on 10/20/2011 07:27:29

decorah818 - Posted - 10/20/2011:  14:11:06

I went out to Stew Mac and I can't find the tru-oil that is being talked about. I am doing the same thing as the starter of this forum. I have a goldtone kit and I need to finish it. I can only find fretboard colortone products.  Has anyone tried any of the Miniwax products. Is there anything I can buy locally at Lowes or Menards that will work??

Wasburn - Posted - 10/20/2011:  14:14:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by decorah818

I went out to Stew Mac and I can't find the tru-oil that is being talked about. I am doing the same thing as the starter of this forum. I have a goldtone kit and I need to finish it. I can only find fretboard colortone products.  Has anyone tried any of the Miniwax products. Is there anything I can buy locally at Lowes or Menards that will work??

---

Youre probably gonna have to go to a gun shop to find Tru Oil. Thats what I had to do, and only 1 of the 2 local stores had it in stock. Call ahead of time to save you a trip.

jay_m - Posted - 10/20/2011:  15:46:58

also you can get it through amazon/direct from birchwood casey.

the point that rudy made about the gloss level of tru oil is a good one, and something to keep in mind.

Quickstep192 - Posted - 10/20/2011:  16:35:45

You're right - Finish formulations that are called matte or semi-gloss actually have a type of flakes in them that refracts the light to make the finish less glossy. Because of that refraction, they also obscure the view of the wood; enough coats can make the wood grain look muddy. It's better to build a gloss finish, then de-gloss it with 0000 steel wool. If you must use a semi-gloss finish, build coats of gloss first, then just finish with a coat of semi-gloss. Also, keep the semi-gloss stirred (not shaken) to keep the particles suspended.   The additives have no correlation to the percentage of solids in the product, but they do generally make the finish softer. I've found them to be soft enough that they can't be rubbed out. But of course, rubbing out a semi-gloss finish should be a contradiction in terms.

LNP - Posted - 10/20/2011:  18:22:53

I think walmart has truoil in sporting goods.