cb56 - Posted - 10/15/2011:  14:11:47

Can someone point me to some videos of nylon string 5 string banjos played clawhammer style? I just want to hear what it sounds like.

Thanks.

cb

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 10/15/2011:  14:57:06

These are several different 5 string banjos (and 1 six string banjo strung with a high string on the bass side to play like a 5 string) strung with Nylgut strings (which may or may not be what you're looking for), played clawhammer style.

They are: a Fairbanks "electric" low tuned, I think; a Dobson Fretless, low tuned; the Fairbanks 'electric' again; a very tiny 5 string conversion from an old banjo uke; a six string Tubaphone with a 12 inch rim.

VIDEO: CLAWHAMMER BACH - Marc Nerenberg (click to view)	VIDEO: 'Simple Twist of Fate' on Fretless Banjo - Marc Nerenberg - Live (click to view)	VIDEO: Where Are You Now, Dr Who? - Live - Marc Nerenberg (click to view)	VIDEO: The Fox - Marc Nerenberg (click to view)
VIDEO: GOLDEN BIRD by Happy Traum - played by MARC NERENBERG (click to view)

cb56 - Posted - 10/15/2011:  16:35:47

Thank you Marc,

That's what I was looking for. You play wonderfully btw.

I have a banjo uke with nylon strings and have recently started learning clawhammer on a steel string 5. I'm glad you included the banjo uke conversion 5. I'm thinking about sometime getting a Goldtone shortscale plucky and changing it to nylon strings.

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 10/15/2011:  16:54:53

Thanks, Chris, for the compliment. Let me add that I found each of these banjos to be substantially improved in playability by the conversion to Nylgut. The action and intonation were both significantly improved - not to mention (ok, I guess this it TO mention) the truly lovely tone of Nylgut strings.

I had never heard of Nylgut before joining the Hangout, but I soon noticed that a commonality I noticed between players here whose tone I particularly admired was the use of Nylgut strings.

I first converted the Fairbanks (with some trepidation, since I really liked the way t sounded before) and found it to be so much easier to play, and better sounding, that there was no question about not converting the others. I ordered a whole pile of Nylgut strings - both Minstrel and regular - and converted 6 of my 7 banjos to Nylgut. I have not regretted it for 1 minute.

Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 10/15/2011 16:56:04

bohemian - Posted - 10/15/2011:  20:02:15

Thanks for the OP's original post.. and thanks Marc for the info ... this inspires me to go ahead and use the NYLGUTS I ordered a year ago. I got a bridge from the good Dr Zepp slotted for the larger string diameters.

Excellent playing. !

japus - Posted - 10/15/2011:  20:14:54

I bet you wont regret your change to nylgut.
I used all steel strings for 2 years on my Vega open back.
About 6 months ago I went to nylguts and I will never go back to steel on the Vega.
They sound so much nicer, and easier to play which was a plus I never realized.
I had to open the nut a little and had a few spare bridges opened a little also.

Fathand - Posted - 10/16/2011:  05:48:49

I recently built a gourd banjo with nylgut and also have a banjo uke and a soprano uke with them. The only downside I notice is that my fingernail wears down faster than steel strings for some reason.

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 10/16/2011:  08:27:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fathand

I recently built a gourd banjo with nylgut and also have a banjo uke and a soprano uke with them. The only downside I notice is that my fingernail wears down faster than steel strings for some reason.

---

I wonder what that reason is - since my experience is exactly the opposite.

stringbeaner - Posted - 10/22/2011:  13:14:26

Marc, I really enjoyed your performance on the 6-stringer. Would you mind telling me the tuning you used?  I used to do that tune a bunch of years back but had to quit 'cause it made my wife cry every time.

Strumelia - Posted - 10/28/2011:  12:07:46

The hardest calluses I ever had on my left hand were during the 3 years I played exclusively with my banjos all strung with classical high-tension nylon guitar strings.  Go figure!

StraitsBlueGal - Posted - 10/28/2011:  12:21:18

My banjos have steel strings and my left hand callouses are not very thick - just enough to do the job, it seems.  But when I've played my nylon-stringed uke at a workshop etc. (i.e. for 2+ hours) it has been murder on my fingertips - much harder on them than steel strings for the same playing time.  I would have not expected that.

Clawhammer people - I am playing around with learning this style.  Do most or all of you prefer nylon on open backs for this style?  I see so many Reiters, Lees, Ramseys around with steel strings - I don't know what to expect.  Thank you.

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 10/28/2011:  12:42:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by StraitsBlueGal

My banjos have steel strings and my left hand callouses are not very thick - just enough to do the job, it seems.  But when I've played my nylon-stringed uke at a workshop etc. (i.e. for 2+ hours) it has been murder on my fingertips - much harder on them than steel strings for the same playing time.  I would have not expected that.

 

Clawhammer people - I am playing around with learning this style.  Do most or all of you prefer nylon on open backs for this style?  I see so many Reiters, Lees, Ramseys around with steel strings - I don't know what to expect.  Thank you.

---

Don't be deceived by all of us nylon string users/lovers who are posting in this thread that's about nylon strings. These days most folks definitely use steel.

Personally, after 40 or so years with steel, I was surprised at how much I really prefer using Nylgut, once I tried them. I like the sound, the feel, the fact that it doesn't wear out my nails so much, the greater range of tuning that any particular guage of string will work with. The only downside I've encountered is that it's harder to change tunings quickly. You re-tune, and the strings seem to want to revert to the previous tuning, so you have to tinker and fine tune a few times before they settle in. (Oh, it's also a fairly long process to stretch the strings in when changing strings).

- @ stringbeaner: Sorry, I didn't notice your question to me earlier in the thread. The 6 string banjo in Golden Bird is tuned dDGDGB (with the 6th string 2 octaves above the 5th - so that it plays like a 5-string banjo, with an added bass string). I string the 6 string with the highest string in the 6 string position, and move all the other strings over by one string accordingly. If you ignore the lowest D string, it's the equivalent of open C on a 5 string, except tuned low in the key of G.

Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 10/28/2011 12:48:07

StraitsBlueGal - Posted - 10/28/2011:  13:06:38

Thank you, Marc.  Even with the little ukulele I've found that those Aquilas keep stretching, and stretching, and stretching when newly installed.  Probably even more so on a banjo due to neck and string length?

Strumelia - Posted - 10/28/2011:  13:35:46

quote:

---

Originally posted by StraitsBlueGal

Clawhammer people - I am playing around with learning this style.  Do most or all of you prefer nylon on open backs for this style?  I see so many Reiters, Lees, Ramseys around with steel strings - I don't know what to expect.  Thank you.

---

BlueGal- there is nothing to expect- just try things out and see how you like it.  The majority of clawhammer/old-time players do use steel strings, but lots of people love nylon or gut too.  You don't have to be all one or the other. One thing is likely- that you may prefer different things at different phases of your banjo discoveries over the years.  It's all exciting and wonderful!

I have 6 banjos. Currently I have them strung thusly:

Three with Nylgut strings:  1 fretless gourd banjo, 1 fretless Ramsey, 1 fretted Ramsey.

Three with steel strings: 1 fretless Alden/DeCava, 1 fretted Alden/DeCava, 1 fretted Ramsey.

All are openbacks, except the gourd of course.  Each one sounds and plays differently, and I love them all, including my original banjo bought 13 yrs ago.  

I like both Nylgut and steel strings.  To me, neither is 'better'- they are simply different experiences and are equally delightful.

banjered - Posted - 10/28/2011:  14:31:57

One steel string for jamming/changing tunings more frequently. 4 Nylgut which I prefer over nylon for sound and feel and which I use more more for vocal backup.

Spend about a minute stretching each string before you string it up, and pull the string as far as you can through the tuner hole and keeping the tension/stretch going, tighten it up.  That greatly minimizes the wounds of string around the post. Banjered

OK-4 - Posted - 10/28/2011:  16:44:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fathand

I recently built a gourd banjo with nylgut and also have a banjo uke and a soprano uke with them. The only downside I notice is that my fingernail wears down faster than steel strings for some reason.

---

I wonder what that reason is - since my experience is exactly the opposite.

---

I have the same issue (nails wear more with nylgut) and don't understand it either.

I am relatively new to nylon and am slowly learning that it deserves a somewhat different feel or attack than steel strings. An example: I never play near the bridge with steel strings (don't care for the resulting sound) but with nylon strings that sound is worth doing occasionally. Conversely, playing over the neck does little for me with nylon strings, but I do it occasionally with steel (whenever I try to sound like Kyle Creed).

josephefortner - Posted - 10/28/2011:  17:29:37

I actually put nylguts on my Ramsey Senator yesterday. The jury is still out. I love that low c note on steel strings in double c tuning. The nylguts just don't seem to have it. But otherwise I like them. They were a beast to stretch out however. I probably have a whole extra 1st and 5 th string around the post.

JedMarum - Posted - 10/28/2011:  18:50:05

I use nylgut on one of my banjos. I love the sound. I wonder how'd they work on my banjola?

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 10/28/2011:  19:40:39

I really should try Nylgut again. I seem to be the only person in the world who hated them. But I do like my Chris Sands Classical Banjo strings. I use them on my avatar - Jackie O, who doesn't get played anywhere near enough these days, but then I don't play very much now either. The picture below was taken when I still used the Kershner tailpiece. I've since gone to a No-Knot and next string change she is getting a Rickard Tailpiece.

Edited by - oldwoodchuckb on 10/28/2011 19:41:35

J.B. Schall circa 1893

Jackie O

Yigal Zan - Posted - 10/28/2011:  20:04:10

"I have the same issue (nails wear more with nylgut) and don't understand it either."

Interesting! The whole reason I went for the nylgut was that these don't wear my nail as the steel do. But, by the time I learned about and decided to try nylgut, I was already protecting my nail with super glue of the Brush On type shown at loctiteproducts.com/p/sg_brush...sh-On.htm.

This type is inexpensive and is always available at the local Ace hardware, so it can be purchased again and again at any time. The brush makes it easy to apply. I keep tiny bottles at each of my banjo cases, and in several strategic spots at the house. When the glue gets too thick I toss the bottle and purchase a fresh one.

Not only that the super glue does a very good job in guarding the nail from wearing and making the latter produce much higher volume, it doubles also in mending skin splits. Because it is anesthetic, it also stops the associated pain instantly. 

But here is the point, it could be that what the steel strings were wearing was the super glue coating, something they do faster than the nylgut do. Once the coating is worn down, the wearing of the nail proceeds. At any rate, as soon as I detect a decline in volume, usually during long jam or group practice sessions, I simply get the bottle out of the case and apply another cote. Finally, my motivation for using nylgut (or nylon in general) strings was also that they make playing with high action much easier.

Edited by - Yigal Zan on 10/28/2011 20:06:46

mrussell - Posted - 10/29/2011:  05:24:49

I find it easier on the fingers to play my fretless with nylguts than my fretted banjo with steel. For the past few months I've found myself wanting to play the nylgut stringed banjo more than my others; I like the mellower sound.

Mike

OK-4 - Posted - 10/29/2011:  20:01:25

Yigal... I tried commercial hardener many years ago but gave up the idea. Now I just let my nail break and use a fingerpick until it grows back. Maybe I will give superglue a try.

I have noticed that for nylon strings I prefer metal fingerpicks but for steel strings I strongly prefer nonmetal picks such as those I make from ping pong balls.

mbuk06 - Posted - 10/30/2011:  01:51:14

Marc, I loved those clips you posted of you playing nylon strings. I have one (vintage) openback strung with nylon and one with steel (phosphor bronze). I have to say I love playing them both. The sounds are way different though. The combination of nylon and a calf-skin head gives a wonderfully warm plunky tone without too much sustain. The action is much higher on the vintage too.

I was wondering if you have found much difference between different nylon string brands? Also how often do you change them out? With steel I'm used to hearing when they're sounding a bit dead and need changing. Nylon seem to go on for ever though.

SWCooper - Posted - 10/30/2011:  04:20:57

I've got my first set of Nylguts on a Bay State openback. Holy cats! Six months later, and they're still stretching. Next step, I'm going to have to unstring and re-string, I've got them wound so many times around the post already.

I like the sound a lot, especially for fingerstyle. I haven't got the hang of clawhammering yet.

Two complaints: because they're at lower tension, I pull strings out of their slots on the bridge occasionally, if I'm not careful. And string bends sound pretty flat with Nylgut. I find myself doing a quick hammer-and-pull rather than bend.

Bart McNeil - Posted - 10/30/2011:  05:51:03

Regarding comments on nail wear:

Of course nails change dramatically with changes in general health as well as various medications for ailments... During a long bout of serious health issues my nails became very soft and vulnerable to any friction. Now that I am in good health I can play hours per day on either nylon or steel with very little sign of wearon the nails. If ones nails are wearing more on nylon than they were on steel it is a health issue not a string issue.

Bart McNeil - Posted - 10/30/2011:  06:08:48

Regarding SWCooper's comment:
"Two complaints: because they're at lower tension, I pull strings out of their slots on the bridge occasionally, if I'm not careful. And string bends sound pretty flat with Nylgut. I find myself doing a quick hammer-and-pull rather than bend."

I have had the same problems with nylon (Can't remember whether they are Nylgut or not). It gets better over time with practice, but I still intend to cut my nut slots deeper, or cut a new nut and bridge to see if I can lessen that tendency. Also I am using a standard bridge and may just convert one to a four footed bridge to lessen that tip over tendency on the low tension strings.

Also I notice that some put a drop of glue under the bridge to keep it from sliding around under the low tension. But I think most of the above problem can be attributed to the player having to make playing adjustments in playing technique to accomadate the low tension strings.

bublnsqueak - Posted - 10/30/2011:  11:51:17

I am assured by engineering type friends of mine that if you rub two things together the hardest will abraid first. I think this is because the softer surface can give making the harder one effectively more brittle.

The differences between people's nail wear will be down to nail hardness relative to nylgut. So it seems that Marc's nails are softer than nylgut whereas others have nails that are harder than nylgut, more brittle.

Quite why this would be?? Could be that 40 years of steel strings leads to adaptation via softer (flexible) nails.

Its a theory I guess!

Paul