Helix - Posted - 10/03/2011:  06:34:17

The orchards are being converted to dwarf trees.

There must be some players and builders in those places where we grow apples, peaches just like the Cherry.

I have used Grapefruit and I have several Orange rims in the works, very blond.

Is no one building with Peach and Apple?.

There is a bow made of Lemon, an upright Bass made from Grapefruit.

I'm not joking, so keep the humour for others jokes.

Reclamation and repurposing is SO useful.

erikforgod - Posted - 10/03/2011:  06:42:02

I always knew fruit was good for yah just like they say...espeically for banjo players....plenty of vitamin "C" for clawhammer ,)

Helix what kind of wood other than Maple hassound properties most similar to Maple in a rim for example? Any of these fruit tree woods?

Edited by - erikforgod on 10/03/2011 06:50:46

Helix - Posted - 10/03/2011:  06:44:31

Keep your protein up

erikforgod - Posted - 10/03/2011:  06:57:30

What about woods like Persimmon or Sassafras? Have you ever used those? Or maybe honey locust ( locust for necks ) I say that because my popaw in Kentucky used to say that Locust posts always made good straight fence posts and they last forever! I know the discussion is about rims...but I love wood...espeically the natural look and grain of wood....if I had a rim built for me for a future banjo...I would want to choose a rim that has a good sound like Maple but also some beautiful grain and figure.

Edited by - erikforgod on 10/03/2011 06:59:34

Shawn Hoover - Posted - 10/03/2011:  07:13:01

Doc's Banjos likes the fruit. Here's one with a few species: docsbanjos.com/banjos/available/143/

Mainly crabapple: docsbanjos.com/gallery/files/c..._41_1.jpg

Oalbrets - Posted - 10/03/2011:  08:26:21

Good smokin wood.

uncle.fogey - Posted - 10/03/2011:  08:46:15

Apple, pear, cherry, and peach are all members of the rose family and all those woods would be excellent to make banjos from.  The problem is that the old apple and pear trees from abandoned orchards are often hollow and the limbs they prune off are such good firewood, it's hard to get any decent wood.  I always have my eyes peeled for apple trees that blow down in storms, but I haven't found a good one yet

Cherry, of course is readily available and a wonderful wood for banjos.

Another rose family member, amelanchier or serviceberry is excellent for banjo parts and I have made a fingerboard, peghead veneers and bridges out of it.

I know nothing about citrus wood so I can't comment.

Persimmon is a member of the ebony family and would be very good for many things.

Sassafras is not good - it's brittle and porous - it looks almost exactly like chestnut and is used by antique restorers as a substitute for that.

There are a lot of good trees out there.

Helix - Posted - 10/03/2011:  08:48:07

I dig doc, welcome home doc.



Um.......My opinions are based on experience with Helix type rims only, the blocks lend themselves to the use of woods not normally made into laminated strap rims with glue on both sides of the middle lam.



I've chosen to stay with the North American hardwood forest and Mahogany and Jatoba from next door.



The Rosewoods and other exotics vaporize their insecticide defenses during turning on a lathe. The 'fines' are smaller than 5 microns, and land on your eyelashes.



Persimmon would be ideal for a Helix type rim, she's an Ebony. If they use Persimmon for golf club shafts, then a neck would also work, but I think it would take more time to open up.



I HAVE some Sassafras, and even some Catalpa and Black Locust.





I find a continuum from Quilted Curly Maple to straight Maple to Ash and Hickory. Oak and Chestnut are just as bright but they are fuller.



Cherry has more mid-range - orange tones



Black Walnut has 2% more of everything, indigo.



Mahogany is more bass resident with copper notes.



Here's some eye-candy with Hickory and a stack from top to bottom:

Mahogany, Grapefruit, Cherry (sunburst) Cherry Candystripe, Hickory, Oak and Chestnut.

Edited by - Helix on 10/03/2011 09:00:23

Rims

Randall - Posted - 10/03/2011:  10:50:49

A pecan rim don't sound bad at all either!!

shannonhearne - Posted - 10/03/2011:  11:02:16

An interesting thread.

Thanks for the information Helix. (Nice rims too!)

-sch

PD Kirby - Posted - 10/03/2011:  12:08:57

Doc's #143 is one of the most beautiful Banjos I have ever seen. Don't know how it sounds but that is a work of art.

erikforgod - Posted - 10/03/2011:  14:27:44

Those Helix rims sure are nice :) I like the idea of an oak rim...its one of my fav trees/woods...and its similar to Maple regarding sound?

ltjgcag - Posted - 10/03/2011:  15:52:59

It's amazing listening to the "Knock Notes" on the different types of wood.  Simply amazing!  They "talk" to you.  They really do.  

I must have listened to a half dozen different woods that Helix knocked on over the phone.  I decided on a Black Walnut.  We repeated the same process with my bride, and she picked the same rim.  And she does not play any musical instrument, but to her, it sounded 'right'.

2 years ago, my brother and I fell a tree on my property.  When we were bucking it to length, I was stabilizing one end and he was 40 foot farther down with the chain saw.  It was just vibrating and chiming and "Talking" to me.  Simply amazing.  

Chris

mikehalloran - Posted - 10/03/2011:  17:41:06

>Persimmon would be ideal for a Helix type rim, she's an Ebony. If they use Persimmon for golf club shafts, then a neck would also work, but I think it would take more time to open up<

I have been wondering about persimmon for fretboards. Anyone trying it?

BanjoBach - Posted - 10/03/2011:  17:44:58

Eighteen months ago I cut down a golden Guava tree, which I am considering using for a block rim. I will post sometime in the future when I have completed this project. I am also going to try making a few bridges from this timber too.

ltjgcag - Posted - 10/03/2011:  19:00:18

I believe slow growing Upper Peninsula Black Cherry may be good for a neck and rim too.

TXhookey - Posted - 10/03/2011:  19:58:08

I think Texas is overlooked for slow growing trees.  In most places, Spring and early summer are considered new growth and late summer fall is considered secondary growth with disproportionate growth rings.  Due to our lovely climate late winter spring growth and late summer fall growth are about the same.  Neither of which are very long windows.  My trees are just now growing again after kicking into survival mode which lasts from around June to Late September and will grow as much until the cold hits as they do in the spring.  I would think this would yield some very consistent wood structure for possible instrument construction.  Plus we have all the Mesquite anyone could ever ask for and any farmer or rancher would be happy to let you dull as many chain saw blades that you have or can resharpen to cut them and large Osage Orange (or Horse Apple, Bois D'arc) in the creek bottoms.  Also lots of Pecan and other fruit woods that come and go with the droughts not even counting the 100 year old fence post wood that gets replaced with metal T posts every year.  When I was a kid, I worked on a ranch that pulled up about 10 miles of 100 year old Bois D'arc fence posts to replace with metal game fencing.  Most had been buried for around 80 years, and we burned it all in some very spectacular bon fires.  I wished I would have saved a stash for duck calls and block rim construction.

olpete - Posted - 10/03/2011:  20:12:27

I'm in the process of building a tackhead out of pear for a friend of mine. The tree was from his grandma's yard and a storm got it a little over a year ago so we cut it up and let it dry out for year. Uncle.fogey is right though, out of the whole tree I was only able to find enough in good enough shape to get one rim and neck out of it. I think it will turn out pretty good though. Pretty cool grain and he wants me to leave some of worm holes in it.

Helix - Posted - 10/03/2011:  21:50:36

If I had Olive, I would make veneers , but Persimmon would take the finger acids and wear and tear, very durable.

No Peach builders?? No Apple??

Pecan? I think you may have one of the very few Pecan rims, she should just dance.

Randall - Posted - 10/04/2011:  03:36:23

Pecan? Yes pecan! She dances very well! Thanks you!
Great bass, great note separation and hard a hell to turn!!

ltjgcag - Posted - 10/04/2011:  04:16:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by TXhookey

I think Texas is overlooked for slow growing trees.  In most places, Spring and early summer are considered new growth and late summer fall is considered secondary growth with disproportionate growth rings.  Due to our lovely climate late winter spring growth and late summer fall growth are about the same.  Neither of which are very long windows.  My trees are just now growing again after kicking into survival mode which lasts from around June to Late September and will grow as much until the cold hits as they do in the spring.  I would think this would yield some very consistent wood structure for possible instrument construction.  Plus we have all the Mesquite anyone could ever ask for and any farmer or rancher would be happy to let you dull as many chain saw blades that you have or can resharpen to cut them and large Osage Orange (or Horse Apple, Bois D'arc) in the creek bottoms.  Also lots of Pecan and other fruit woods that come and go with the droughts not even counting the 100 year old fence post wood that gets replaced with metal T posts every year.  When I was a kid, I worked on a ranch that pulled up about 10 miles of 100 year old Bois D'arc fence posts to replace with metal game fencing.  Most had been buried for around 80 years, and we burned it all in some very spectacular bon fires.  I wished I would have saved a stash for duck calls and block rim construction.

---

 I believe that bordertownbrown here on the BHO uses mesquite for his creations. 

Helix - Posted - 10/04/2011:  05:36:50

I play Bordertown Brown's music while I make banjos.

Black Cherry? I wonder if that's rare?

stanger - Posted - 10/04/2011:  11:09:39

Right you are, Larry!
A good friend of mine has been reclaiming woods for resale for decades now. His big thing is reclaiming in the urban forest- some of his best wood has come from city dumps where old trees were sent after being cut down. He regularly takes long road trips; when he finds trees that have overgrown city home lots, he'll often stop, buy the tree from the homeowner, and have a tree service cut it down for him.

Fruitwoods often are real good tonewoods- walnut and cherry are commonly used, as was pear at one time, and there is no reason why others wouldn't work just as well as walnut and cherry, especially if grown in pruned groves where the trunks may grow straighter.

I once made a chair out of two volunteer apricots I cut down in my back yard. The wood grain was wavy and knotty, but the orangey-apricot color was gorgeous, and the wood was about as hard as cherry. I sold the chair to a nieghbor when I moved out of the house, but wish now I had kept it. It smelled like apricot, too- real nice.
regards,
stanger

Helix - Posted - 10/04/2011:  14:07:41

I should mention apricot, it's fantastic.

erikforgod - Posted - 10/04/2011:  14:33:03

quote:

---

Originally posted by Helix

If I had Olive, I would make veneers , but Persimmon would take the finger acids and wear and tear, very durable.



No Peach builders?? No Apple??



Pecan? I think you may have one of the very few Pecan rims, she should just dance.

---

How does Pecan sound and look?

Randall - Posted - 10/04/2011:  14:41:04

Pecan in a rim is amazing. Looks alot like oak when turned down. I am buildin a neck from pecan now. I will post up on it next week closer to completion.

uncle.fogey - Posted - 10/04/2011:  15:00:13

Pecan is a member of the botanical family that includes butternut, walnut, pecan (obviously) and the hickories.

Of those woods, walnut is the one that has been used the most for banjos, and I'd say, because of its appearance more than anything else - it's like a supermodel, so, because it's so beautiful it's become a standard wood, and so you have to include it in your calculations of wood species for banjos - in a nutshell (pun intended) it's mellower, less bright. 

Walnut is legendary as a cabinet wood, takes a finish, but has open pores.  Ditto pecan, butternut and the hickories.  To make formal furniture, you have to fill the pores. Likewise with banjos, and the old Gibsons had the pores filled, but with more casual designs, an oil finish looks great.

I'd think pecan would be great for banjos, and I'd treat it as if it was walnut - it lacks the dark brown color, but looks nice all the same.

Helix - Posted - 10/05/2011:  07:24:07

The grain for Pecan is stupendous.

It appears most of the architectural beams are in a yard in Kansas City, beams cut in 1860, used in a structure for a century, then reclaimed. 

No Peach, no Apple rims??

stigandr5 - Posted - 10/06/2011:  12:57:23

A friend of mine pruned a peach tree awhile back and I tried to get enough heartwood for a bridge. It split like the Dickens when I let it air dry. I didn't have the best drying set up, but I still think this wood would move a lot under the best of conditions.

Randall - Posted - 10/06/2011:  13:06:56

Just picked up about 7 more boards of pecan. Gonna try to make a neck just to see what it sounds like!

If anyone would like a pecan rim, I have a few I would sell! Just contact me offline thru the hangout.

Helix - Posted - 10/06/2011:  20:14:42

This is good, I support both the Pecan neck and the rims. The neck will showcase the grain.

I started putting Maple stripes in Walnut necks and vice versa. I use Cherry bridges on Maple rims, Maple bridges on Cherry rims. I think and hear that it balances out certain voices.


We lost two Peach trees to the rabbits, they girdle the tree, so I cut just a few pieces of it, and found it to be orange and yellow inside.

I can easily build a Helix type rim with Peach or Apple because I don't have to have a 3' laminated strip in a steamer.

Orange is not related to Grapefruit. Tangelos, Navels and Tangerines are all grafted to an Orange stock. When I say I have Orange stock, I mean I have 40 year old wood from ornamental Orange trees, no grafting. 12" trunks and large limb.

The Grapefruit orchards are being ground up by the orchard grinding machine, it is something to behold. So that wood is becoming very rare.

erikforgod - Posted - 03/03/2012:  05:11:20

I would think the fruit tree woods would have alot of holes and pits and rough places in them? Am I wrong...will they make nice smooth, clean rims?