jchabalk - Posted - 07/08/2011:  21:19:30

Hi there, i got my first nice banjo recently, it's a '99 Deering Deluxe that was played very little by its original owner. I had asked a couple of questions about its specifics in another thread and i have a few more questions i wanted to ask. I really appreciated all the great comments from everyone so far.

My banjo's in great condition but since it's been just sitting (apparently out in the open) for a long time it needs a good clean up. All of the nickel is pretty well tarnished - along with the frets. I'm wondering if it'd be best to disassemble it to give everything a good polishing or try to do it without disassembly? I've been searching around and people seem to recommend Simichrome over anything else for the nickle, i'm going to see if i can get some.

The head appears to be in basically pristine condition but is also about 12+ years old and has been at tension the entire time. If i take the opportunity to disassemble and polish the metal is there any reason i shouldn't replace the head at the same time?

The 4 screws that hold the resonator on were locked in place pretty well, i don't think they lubed them at the factory and they'd mostly frozen up. I removed them all slowly with my hands (sometimes) and wrench. They came off cleanly but one left some brass shavings in the shell (nothing was majorly stripped). I cleaned the screws and nuts, lightly lubed them, cleaned out the inside and everything went back together nicely.

The felt that covers the area where the resonator would meet the heel of the neck has shrunk and the glue is visible and peeling. It looks like the best thing to do with it would be to remove the felt all together, remove the dried glue with naphtha and replace the felt, is the felt cut in a special way, or do i just get some felt and wing it?

I'm really comfortable cleaning and caring for my guitars, this is a slightly different beast, thanks in advance for all of the sane advice ;) 

Edited by - jchabalk on 07/17/2011 19:50:04

mcate - Posted - 07/08/2011:  21:55:37

I just acquired my first banjo a month ago...a 1980 Deering Deluxe. Also in very nice condition, there is

a small amount of tarnish on the nickle parts. The head looks original and is quite clean and came to me

very tight. The frets are in great shape with little wear, a few finish checks on the resonator, none on the neck,

and the finish still very glossy. I re-strung it, cleaned it up best I could,but want to do as you've mentioned, strip

it down and polish/clean all parts thoroughly next time it needs strings. I love it except the fingerboard is not wood,

but is also in very good shape. 

jchabalk - Posted - 07/08/2011:  22:35:20

what's the fingerboard made of on yours? mine appears to be wood, i have no reason to believe it's not. it looks like a dark rosewood of some variety, similar to my guitars. 1980 is a pretty early Deering banjo as they were founded the same year i was, 1975.

BobbyE - Posted - 07/08/2011:  22:59:25

While the banjo cleanup would certainly be easier by taking it apart I hesitate to tell someone new to banjos to do so.  Getting it back to where you had it before as to head tension can be difficult to do.  If you do go that route, buy one of the tools like a drum dial or torque wrench gizmos with a dial setting so that you can get it back to where it was, especially if you are pleased with the sound of it now and don't want to lose it.  Then there is the tailpiece and getting it back to original is also to consider.

Bobby

Bart McNeil - Posted - 07/09/2011:  05:27:06

You seem to enjoy futzing with your instruments.

I would take this opportunity to buy an alternative sounding head and learn to install it. No hurry as yours is likely fine, but it would give you a reason to learn to do it in the not too distant future if you want to try an alternative tone. You might want to try using a skin head for instance.. You will find a tonal difference between plastic and skin. I have both on my various banjos and enjoy the difference in sound. In general I find skin to be mellower and less aggressive in tone. I actually prefer skin but I am not into bluegrass which seems to favor a more aggressive sound, common to bluegrass.

Most new banjos come with plastic heads but that is because they require very little time and skill to install. Skin heads are not hard to install either but take more time. Installing them is kind of fun in my opinion. Check frets.com for good instructions on installing skin heads.

By the way most folk install heads by feel. In my opinion the only tool you might want is the three socket head adjusting wrench available at banjo sulpply stores.. they are handy and have the nut sizes you will need. I am sure the torque wrench is handy too but it can be done by feel.

bobb62 - Posted - 07/09/2011:  05:44:35

Get the Huber "Killer Tone" DVD. It walks you through tear down and rebuild step by step. Steve Huber takes apart and reassembles a banjo on screen while he is explaining key steps and possible problems.

Tinkering is one of the fun aspects of being a banjo owner.

mcate - Posted - 07/09/2011:  07:34:57

When I received it I thought it was ebony but there were no discernible grain marks...

the fretboard is very smooth. I spoke with Deering and it seems for a short while back

then, because of a shortage of ebony, they were using something called ebonite which

I surmise is a synthetic material, ( plastic?) which looks like ebony. Don't know how this affects

the tone but it plays and sounds great. I adjusted the truss rod and did a small adjustment

to the coordinator rods per the Deering manual and all is well.

jchabalk - Posted - 07/16/2011:  23:19:18

just wanted to update this thread before letting it fall away for good.

After a couple of days of reading i took the plunge and dismantled my banjo, fixed it all up and got it back together. I was a little wary at first for sure but i just took my time and wasn't too aggressive with the wrench. it's playing and sounding great now.

Here's what i did:

• 
  complete disassembly of the pot, removed the head and neck


• 
  polished all metal with simichrome and 0000 steel wool, twice (it was really tarnished and starting to oxidize in parts, plus there was a lot of gunk under the head


• 
  cleaned and polished the fret board and frets also with steel wool, oiled the fret board


• 
  removed and polished the tuning pegs, reinstalled them with proper tension


• 
  set the coordinator rods, truss rod and action, replaced the head, and fully cleaned, polished and lubed every threaded connection

It's nice and shiny now and plays so much better than it did before, it's like a new banjo.

I went for the full disassembly after i started to replace the head. The banjo is 12 years old and had been played very little when i got it, there was light corrosion on all metal surfaces, the frets were almost brown from oxidation. the tension on the head inconsistent, some of the j-bolts were so loose i didn't need a wrench, others were tight. the coordinator rods were loose as was their connection to the neck, same things with the tuning machines.

anyway, it was a good learning experience for me and the banjo's better than new (well as good as new anyway ;) ). here are a few pictures i took during reassembly a couple of hours ago. (the purse isn't mine ;) )

Edited by - jchabalk on 07/16/2011 23:21:08

jchabalk - Posted - 07/16/2011:  23:46:15

The felt on the cutout of the resonator where it fits into the neck had shrunk and the glue was showing all around it. I removed the felt and cleaned up the cutout with lighter fluid, it cleaned up great. i'll find some new felt and apply it this week. what's the right glue to use to apply the felt? i don't want to make it impossible to remove again a few years later.

i don't have any pictures of it all put together, maybe tomorrow when there's daylight again i'll take some.

no 'before' pictures either but suffice it to say you couldn't see your reflection in it at all and my hands are sore and blistered from all the polishing. ;)

Alex Z - Posted - 07/17/2011:  09:25:50

Very nice job.  The 0000 steel wool on the nickel-plated parts has given it a sort of "antique" finish.

I've used ordinary white glue on the covering for the resonator notch.  Since it is not waterproof, you can remove the residue in the future without solvents that might harm the resonator finish, or sanding or scraping that might change the width/depth of the notch.

Also, be aware that the "felt" you buy at a craft store might be mostly a paper product.  Any dense, thick fabric will work.  I used pool table cloth (Simonis 860, so the resonator notch is now tournament quality! ) .

mcate - Posted - 07/17/2011:  09:34:33

Nice job!! Looks great, I will be doing the same thing to mine next time

it needs strings. So how long it did take?

gmo - Posted - 07/17/2011:  11:43:39

For general info, the ebonite fingerboards used by Deering ( and by Stelling I believe) in the early eightys are nearly indestructable wear wise but they have one negative characteristic, exposure to heat such as playing for extended periods in direct summer sunlight can cause the ebonite to expand and warp the neck . Not good for festival jams outside in the summer. Otherwise a great board material .
George

bobb62 - Posted - 07/17/2011:  12:01:56

I just did the same thing to an 81 Staghorn. I really wish I would have taken photos before and during the tear down and clean up to have comparison pictures. It really is fun and a sense of accomplishment to see the pile of parts on the table turn into a beautiful sounding instrument.

Congratulations on your "new" banjo.

mcate - Posted - 07/17/2011:  15:03:10

That's good to know about the ebonite and heat. I am a  "wood" guy and really like my Deluxe except

for the fingerboard. I would be completely satisfied with it were it not for that one fact. Had I known about

it before I acquired it I would have passed...I went strictly with the brand and model, being  new to

the world of banjos, ( not acoustic and electric guitars, though), I did not know to ask about the FB material.

Live and learn.

jchabalk - Posted - 07/17/2011:  19:20:10

All done today, i ran out to the craft store this morning to get some felt and missed the beginning on the world cup match.

As far as the amount of time it took i think i probably spent 3-4 hours on it all told (maybe a little more). I probably wouldn't want to do it straight through but in a few different segments. Granted also, it took a lot more time this first go-round than it would if i had to do it again. I think it would be broken down something like this:

Friday Evening:

• 
  20 minutes: disassembly


• 
  90 minutes: initial cleaning and polishing of everything (all metal and wood pieces)

Saturday Evening:

• 
  30 minutes: second polishing of everything (afternoon)


• 
  90 minutes: assembly, set up and fine tuning (evening)

Sunday Morning:

• 
  20 minutes: spent futzing around with the resonator felt while i watched the world cup game


• 
  20 minutes: at the same time, i cleaned the exterior of the case, vacuumed the interior and polished up the clasps a little since i had the polish out

Doing that first round of polishing took a lot of effort and by the time i was done my hands were pretty worn out. I think I could have done the whole thing in one day had I planned on starting in the morning and finishing in the evening. In my case i didn't have the head and strings when i started as i was going to order them online, i ended up finding a shop locally that had everything i needed and spent Saturday running errands, one of which was to get the head.

The felt was $.40 for an 8"x10" sheet so i got a few colors. I ended up doing a 2-color double-layer on the resonator felt. This was partly due to the fact that the soccer game was long and partly due to an open magnum of birthday beer I received a couple of weeks ago that my wife and i (unevenly) split ;)

Here are some more pictures of the completed banjo, i did a little photoshoot after the soccer match ended (but before the birthday beer ran out) - i need a better strap, i got this one at a shop on Saturday but it's not comfortable and cuts into my neck. Thanks for all the help, this forum is great!!

Double Layer of Grey and Red Felt:

The golden light is from a nearby incandescent bulb:

daytripper - Posted - 07/17/2011:  22:15:48

This is a very interesting thread - I hoping to do the same for a 40 yr old banjo next week. Some questions:

1. Did buffing with 0000 wool give that 'slightly matt' effect to the metal..?
2. Will Simichrome/Flitz remove rust AND tarnish..?
3. In what kind of shop would I buy polish - Simichrome/Flitz. I tried Home Depot to no avail. Anyone know where to find some in Houston..?
4. How do I clean frets without damaging the wood..?
5. How do I polish the tone ring without removing it or damaging the wood..?

thanks!

marc

mcate - Posted - 07/17/2011:  22:29:10

I ordered a tube of Simichrome polish from Amazon.com...they have very competitive prices

and I've always received quick service from them. What cleaner/polish did you use on the

rim? Again, nice job and your banjo looks like new!

Edited by - mcate on 07/17/2011 22:44:45

daytripper - Posted - 07/17/2011:  22:39:07

I'm only in the US a few more days so can't mail order - need to locate a shop which sells the stuff.

Or can anyone recommend the equivalent UK product..?

jchabalk - Posted - 07/17/2011:  23:12:07

Hi there, i'll try to answer in-line:

1. Did buffing with 0000 wool give that 'slightly matt' effect to the metal..?

• 
  Possibly, i think that may just be the nickel plating also, it's real shiny in person but different than chrome-shiny if that makes any sense, i really like the way it looks.

2. Will Simichrome/Flitz remove rust AND tarnish..?

• 
  The tarnish comes off quick, in fact i found that simichrome and a cloth got rid of tarnish super-fast, the heavier oxidation definitely took some work with the steel wool. I have a polishing wheel for my dremel that i nearly broke out a few times but i've always had better luck with elbow grease on a project like this. power tools tend to cause me more (unreversible) problems faster. Doing it by hand you have a little more control (as well as tired out arms ;) )

3. In what kind of shop would I buy polish - Simichrome/Flitz. I tried Home Depot to no avail. Anyone know where to find some in Houston..?

• 
  I'd call around to motorcycle shops and try there. I tried small and large hardware stores around the city i live in and no one had it. After not being able to find it i called a couple of motorcycle shops and both of them had it. I ride my bike (pedals, not motors) to work sometimes and i just swung by and picked it up on the way home friday evening. I don't know houston at all but i bet there are some motorcycle shops there with simichrome behind the counter ;)

4. How do I clean frets without damaging the wood..?

• 
  There are a few options here i think. The 0000 steel wool isn't actually bad for the fret board and will help clean and shine it too. I just wouldn't go against the grain. You could also get one of these, or one of these, or both. (I prefer the latter) i didn't use either of them for my cleanup, just the 0000 steel wool and a very little bit of simichrome for the frets, a light polishing of the fretboard using steel wool again and then lemon oil on the fret board. I've done my guitar fret boards that way for a while (lemon oil) and it always works great.

5. How do I polish the tone ring without removing it or damaging the wood..?

• 
  I just kind of carefully worked around it. Again, the steel wool isn't going to do anything bad to the wood. If you're careful you can polish up to the edge of the tone ring with the steel wool. I went over the wood with it also and then gave the wood a light oiling with lemon oil. Cleaning and polishing all of the j-hooks was probably the most difficult part of the whole thing.

Good luck with your project, i hope it goes well!

daytripper - Posted - 07/18/2011:  11:54:05

I went to a gun shop & picked up some Flitz, which I hear is also very good. Anyone care to comment on Simichrome vs Flitz..?

steve davis - Posted - 07/18/2011:  12:37:51

You should only use bronze wool as steel wool can leave tiny pieces of steel in the wood.

grm405 - Posted - 07/18/2011:  13:08:29

I would never use steel wool on nickel plate. It will remove the nickel. It scratches the surface.

I had a severely corroded banjo (Imperial) and after trying several cleaners found that Zildjan (Cymbal polish sold a most music stores) removed the tarnish with little effort and a few paper towels. Much better than anything else; it also leaves a finish which looked as good a year later as when I finished. This stuff has been recommended by a lot of people on this site, the reason I tried it.

Gerry

mcate - Posted - 07/18/2011:  13:35:21

Since cymbals are made of spun brass it would seem that polish

is probably a lot like Brasso, which can also be used on chrome,

copper, stainless steel, and pewter. Doesn't list nickel though.

daytripper - Posted - 07/18/2011:  13:54:48

How do I know if I have nickel or chrome on my banjo..? It's a late 60's Saga masterclone...

Klondike Waldo - Posted - 07/18/2011:  14:15:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcate

When I received it I thought it was ebony but there were no discernible grain marks...

the fretboard is very smooth. I spoke with Deering and it seems for a short while back

then, because of a shortage of ebony, they were using something called ebonite which

I surmise is a synthetic material, ( plastic?) which looks like ebony. Don't know how this affects

the tone but it plays and sounds great. I adjusted the truss rod and did a small adjustment

to the coordinator rods per the Deering manual and all is well.

---

Ebonite® is a hard molded  vulcanized rubber substance used in making student model clarinets and oboes, clarinet and saxophone mouthpieces as bowling balls. It was invented by Charles Goodyear .

Re: using Brasso®

Cymbals ( the really good ones anyway are made of an alloy which is more complex than brass (copper and zinc) or bronze (copper and tin) they probably contain all the same metals as brass and bronze, but with others, perhaps including nickel.  Most cymbal makers keep their "formula" jealously guarded.  

Edited by - Klondike Waldo on 07/18/2011 14:23:11