clawhammermike - Posted - 02/04/2011:  22:40:36

I was going about working on my blog when all of the sudden I came along Don Messer's fiddle tunes from Canada. I liked them so although they had a different feel I thought how hard can it be. I am not that smooth of a player anyway but this has reduced me to a banjo baby. I got a bunch of questions:

What is this kind of tune called?

Is there a claw pattern I am missing that would work better?

Why do some kinds of music turn us into babbling idiots?

My crappy version:
box.net/shared/aeb73jqmap

Don Messer sample:
box.net/shared/i6dg21uzqb


I need cathy or ken or bela or some other worldly person to come bail me out and give me cultural sensitivity banjo training.

clawhammertuneoftheday.blogspot.com

slc - Posted - 02/04/2011:  23:35:06

Well it sure sounds like a New England contra dance tune (jig) - is that your question?

Funny you post this question now - I *just* today uploaded my first video, a clawhammer contra tune (a jig). Give a listen/watch and see if you think it might apply. If so i can try to articulate the technique better...

I don't think it sounds bad at all btw, but the 'jiggyness' of the tune could be a little more, ah, jiggy...

VIDEO: Fair Jennys Favorite, clawhammer jig (click to view)

stringbeaner - Posted - 02/04/2011:  23:46:36

Almost any tune in 6/8 time is gonna be hard to CH. You have to make some adjustments in your right hand movement and probably do more hammers and pull-offs with your left.

slc - Posted - 02/05/2011:  00:01:37

Funny thing I was just thinking it should be easier. After all a jig has only 75% of the notes a regular tune does...

clawhammermike - Posted - 02/05/2011:  00:05:41

stefan- that was beautiful. whole different world.

derwood400 - Posted - 02/05/2011:  04:27:01

Canadian fiddle tunes seem to be very hard to clawhammer. Ken Perlman has a section in his book on Canadian fiddle tunes. Because he is such a master at melodic clawhammer, he is able to make it work really well. Unfortunately I, and many others it would appear find it very difficult. I think this is part of the reason I have had such a hard time finding a fiddler tO play with. I play Appalachian fiddle tunes, and most fiddlers around here play Ottawa Valley fiddle tunes which are very different. A lot of jigs and reels etc. The timings and rhythms just don't seem natural to clawhammer. It can be very frustrating.

By the way, Slc. That is a great example in your video. You have that down pat. Nice job!

Edited by - derwood400 on 02/05/2011 04:34:30

jojo25 - Posted - 02/08/2011:  10:22:11

Mike...wish I could help you...but when it comes to doing jigs in CH...I'm in the "old dog-new trick" trap...no can do

If I really want/need to learn a jig I learn to fingerpick it..still not all that easy...but much more doable for this old dog

woof

so emulate Stefan and hope for the best

but you should still be able to find a groove for the reels...don't worry too much about getting all the notes...just work to get the feel and find the changes

for the jigs you might fall back on whamming...where your "claw" sounds some notes on the way back up...gets you to that 3 beat thing...this is part of the dreaded "chording" ideology of which I am a deviant advocate

minstrelmike - Posted - 02/08/2011:  11:22:00

I think of frailing 2/4 as boom-shukka boom-shukka and with lefthand actions like pulls or hammers or with dbl-thumbing, you get boom-a-shukka boom-a-shukka.

For 6/8, I start it off as boom-shukka-shukka boom-shukka-shukka and then add strokes where needed. But I think all the melodic stuff in that timing is tricky doing clawhammer style so I just put picks on. If I can't take advantage of the fullness of the frail or grok the rhythm correctly, I find it easier to use an alternate right hand method. It's hard to tell whether that is laziness or brilliance.

Ken Perlman works at it and it shows.

slc - Posted - 02/08/2011:  12:23:32

The method I'm using is *very* easy. That video I recorded? I hadn't touched that technique for maybe ten years and recorded it the other day just as a lark. Last night I figured out a simple jig in almost no time flat (using few hammer/pull ons/offs and very little finger movement). It's not because I have a good ear (I absolutely do NOT), but because many jigs actually fit the banjo fingerboard quite well.

I'm thinking of doing a tutorial video because it really is accessible and doable for an intermediate player (a beginner might need to work on that relaxed hand everybody talks about first - but then again maybe not). As a matter of fact jigs - especially New England contra dance jigs - are *easier* because they are *slower* to fit a dance's pace, and because there's more emphasis on drive (as opposed to the Irish lilt) which the banjo is perfect for.

majikgator - Posted - 02/08/2011:  18:11:09

Mike Iverson has a section on his site about playing in 6/8 time. One thing you will find when playing clawhammer in this timing is that there isn't nearly as much (if any) 5th string drone going on. I think it's easier to play in a fingerpicking style but clawhammer can sound very nice once you've got it but it will sound different. Yes jigs are usually played slower than other dance tunes but they still make for a very lively dance, some dance tunes are played so fast they are difficult for anybody to actually dance to.

Edited by - majikgator on 02/08/2011 18:11:56

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 02/08/2011:  18:13:50

There are a couple of different time signatures used, most of which are mathematical multiples of 6/8. 9/8 is common for slip jigs, and 12/8 shows up for some. The rhythms are tricky to clawhammer. Pete Seeger said in his book that clawhammer was most usable for 2/4 time, standard for square dance music. He did have chapters devoted to other time signatures, blues, and Spanish music. It can be done, and I believe Ken Perlman has recorded some jigs. First step is to listen to a lot of jigs, and get the feel deep into your self. A lot of 6/8 is played as 2 sets of triplets, almost like 2/4 time, but with the triplet feel. 12/8 blues is most often played in four sets of triplets, very similar to the jigs, but slower.
You might want to find someone who plays a lot of Celtic music, they will do a fair amount of jigs. Try some 2 finger picking or Seeger's Basic Strum instead of clawhammer. Or even Stroke Style. It wouldn't hurt to see some jigs danced,as well. Something is lost when folk music is separated from the dance that evolved with the music, even for non-dancers like me.
Paul

deuceswilde - Posted - 02/08/2011:  18:40:56

A full explanation of the different time signatures and how they relate with the scientific principles of music can be found on pages 7 and 8 in Frank Converse's "Analytical Banjo Method."

All the necessary movements and combinations needed to play characteristic banjo style in various time signatures are found on pages 90- 94. Particular to 6/8 time is the exercise "The Combination and Hammer Movements Combined."

A small bit of research can save a huge amount of time.

slc - Posted - 02/09/2011:  02:12:56

In case any are interested, I posted another clawhammer jig in the forum (banjohangout.org/topic/199073), plus a brief tutorial on how I do it (I doubt it's in Converse's book)

I had *planned* to post Reverend Brother's Jig (Irish), but somehow ended up playing Shady Grove in 6 time instead...!

kenperlman - Posted - 02/10/2011:  15:12:49

Hi Mike

I listened quickly to the Messer tune (a jig, for sure) and to your version. You are definitely on the right track, although you haven't quite figured out how to get the interior notes of each three note grouping cleanly. For some hints on how to improve your setting, you might check out some of the jigs that I've tabbed out in my instruction books, or listen to some of the jigs I've put on my recordings. Get details on my website, kenperlman.com

Cheers
Ken Perlman