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BigDaddio88 - Posted - 09/22/2010: 17:59:41
Good find! Those notches are all over the place. Mine had the two like yours. Looks genuine to me. I would like to see the two plates match. Nice that you have the original tailpiece. Ray
fesso - Posted - 09/22/2010: 18:06:34
Ya. i'm gonna switch the copper out to brass when i can find some. i was impatient to hear it in action.
neighbour - Posted - 09/23/2010: 14:41:24
hi fesso,lucky you, nice dobson. i got two indents and three dot inlays on the dowel. stamp on scratch plate nov 8 1881.on the tone ring theres one mark says dobson patent, 1878&1881 and another one says henry c dobson maker ny usa 1885. these are very finely etched by hand . i do have the gap in the heel ,which is rounded at the base as is the peghead at the top. missing the origional tailpiece, so if luck finds you again and you find one give us a shout !
deuceswilde - Posted - 09/23/2010: 17:04:30
These were all made by the giant Buckbee factory, variations were all over the place. Very inconsistent.
Your peghead does look to have been altered.
fesso - Posted - 10/02/2010: 17:29:38
Alas, when i tried to tighten the head i found that the head was cracked all along where it rests on the tone ring... i am now awaiting a pre-mounted goat skin (after reading up on mounting skins i decided not to try) so i still have not been able to hear it in action...
Does anybody have any idea how much this banjo might be worth? About how much would it cost to have a new reproduction neck put on it and then what might it be worth? Just curious...
thanks!
jeff
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 10/02/2010: 18:55:30
Don't change the neck - fix it, if necessary, but don't change it - it will lose it's original character. If you want an imitation Dobson, people make 'em...but you have the real thing, why would you want a copy, instead?
jbalch - Posted - 10/02/2010: 19:10:25
Nice find: Here is a link to photos of the one I used to have. You might like to look for comparison. Mine was a nice example in very good original condition. I sold it on ebaY in 2008 for $999.
banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...umid=2873
Paul R - Posted - 10/02/2010: 20:04:18
Nice banjo, Fesso. (And John, I don't think I could bring myself to sell a banjo like that!)
About the peghead: There were several shapes, whether from C.E, G.C., or H.C. Dobson, so anything's possible.
Did you find this in T.O.?
jbalch - Posted - 10/03/2010: 05:23:07
quote:
Originally posted by Paul R
...And John, I don't think I could bring myself to sell a banjo like that! ...
I know...at the time I just had too many banjos. I simply did not play it. If I remember correctly, it went to John Salmon of SITG.com. Back then, I had three (3) banjos with Dobson-style tone rings (the original H. C. Dobson, a JB (Bonefaas), and my Wayne Sagmoen). The Sagmoen was my favorite and is the only one I still have.
BTW, I used that Dobson banjo on my
~HOT~ Biscuit Jam project. Here are sound samples:
Firefly: johnbalchmusic.com/JBsoundclip...refly.mp3
Rattletrap: johnbalchmusic.com/JBsoundclip...etrap.mp3Here are samples of all three Dobson-style banjos I had. I made these back then for comparison:
H. C Dobson: banjohangout.org/myhangout/med...archived=JB (Bonefaas): banjohangout.org/myhangout/med...archived=Wayne Sagmoen #53: (this was the fisrt banjo Wayne sold with his Dobson ring).
banjohangout.org/myhangout/med...archived=Fesso:
When it comes to the neck:
The one I had was
perfectly straight and precisely mounted to the rim. Mine was found in an old house under restoration in Massachussetts. It apparently had never been modified at all. As original, it was set up for gut strings and
high action. It was not intended for steel strings and low action like modern banjos. Some folks see a banjo like this with high strings and assume that it needs a "neck-reset." But that is not necessarily the case. It might have been made that way purposefully (as I'm sure mine was). Unfortunately, I've seen many great vintage banjos
ruined by well-meaning tinkerers who were trying to change the set-up to modern specs. But many of these old banjos were never intended to be set that way.
In my way of thinking. If you want to have a modern, steel-strung, neck on a banjo like the one I had, the right (and most effective) thing to do
might be to remove and preserve the original neck...and make a modern replacement set-up as you like. That is obviously expensive...and if the old neck has already been modified...it may have little significance as a historic artifact. So each case is a judgement call. But making a new neck for a great old rim is an option worth considering (IMHO).
GREAT LOOKING OLD BANJO....Enjoy...and Best Wishes!
Edited by - jbalch on 10/03/2010 09:15:08
fesso - Posted - 10/03/2010: 10:39:12
Thanks for the sharing the song links John, great stuff, The Unnamed song on the original Dobson sounds great! Hope i can get mine to sound like that someday.
Yes i found it in Toronto. The neck is horribly warped, and the fingerboard was chipped and falling out, the first 5 frets were barely holding on... i want this banjo to be a player... is it possible to straighten the neck and replace only the fingerboard? i am not planning to sell it, i am going to keep it for sure evan though it's my 5th banjo in 2 years... B.A.S. has taken me... i just want to be able to brag to the wife what a great deal i got (not that she gives me a hard time at all but the banjo's are piling up).
Paul R - Posted - 10/03/2010: 12:34:58
Fesso, if it were mine I'd take it in to the Twelfth Fret on Danforth and get their expert opinion. I don't know any other place in T.O. with staff that would really know banjos. (But I've been out of Hogtown since '02, so what do I know?)
BTW, gigging on Parliament Hill - great!
Paul
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 10/03/2010: 14:31:18
The Ottawa Folklore Centre is another great place to take it, if you have occasion to go to Ottawa. (I do the two hour drive each way from Montreal to bring my banjos there whenever they have needed work done).
fesso - Posted - 11/05/2010: 17:16:29
The Dobson has gone to Luthier Luke Mercier here in Ontario. He builds awesome banjos and is a bit of a Dobson expert. He is going to replace the head and fingerboard for me. i decided to go with a flush fret fingerboard. can't wait! i will post pics when he is done with it.
fesso - Posted - 12/16/2010: 16:35:28
Well, i finally got the Dobson back from Luke Mercier lukemercier.com
and man oh man, am i ever a happy camper! i can't put it down and i am really going to enjoy the challenge of learning to play fretless, what a joy!
Luke did an absolutely beautiful job restoring this beauty i can't begin to describe the quality of work he turned out!
He replaced head and the tuning pegs and put a new fingerboard on with flush fret markers.
it plays like a dream! i will try to post some audio files soon.
blm10jn - Posted - 12/16/2010: 17:18:13
To restore means to return to "LIKE NEW". Anything else is fixed and modified. So you have modifed/changed a Dobson. No worse that putting a 5 string neck on a tenor pot. But it is not restored.
fesso - Posted - 12/16/2010: 18:08:33
Well excuse me, what a fool i am for carelessly and insensitively sharing my excitement while not minding my vocabulary. When i found it the fingerboard was seriously chipped and the frets were falling out, would it have been better to leave it in an unplayable condition and hang it on my wall?
Thanks for the lesson.
Edited by - fesso on 12/16/2010 18:40:31
jbalch - Posted - 12/16/2010: 19:28:47
Looks like a magnificent "restoration" to me..."restored to playable condition" and ready for another 125 years +/-.
Congratulations.
dfwest - Posted - 12/16/2010: 21:07:37
Call it what you like - it's a beauty! Enjoy.
Dave
bluemule_77 - Posted - 12/16/2010: 21:20:16
Don't mind him, fesso... he's just envious! Congrats on the banjo and I enjoyed reading the tale of its restoration to usefulness.
lukemercier - Posted - 12/16/2010: 22:39:13
It was a good find.
I feel a need to add a few details about the state of the original fingerboard.
The acid solution used to dye the original Pearwood board was far too strong a solution and continued to disintigrate the wood for the last 100+ yrs. It literally came off like sawdust.
Anyhow, the task here was not to restore the instrument to original condition but to restore it to proper playing condition, keeping in the spirit of the period and combining features that would also be in keeping with Jeff's aesthetic. The decision to go with a slightly thicker ebony fingerboard was to ensure both stability and longevity wherein the neck was severely bowed.
The staggered fret pattern used was common to 1870's - 80's banjos and can be found on early Cubley and Hammig banjos to name two anyway.
The material selected for the fret markers was celluloid from a 120 yr old pump organ. Yes! piano key lid material.
The 12th fret marker was from an old strip of marquetry binding from Lee Valley that was being cleared out of their stock. 100+ yrs old.
Even for the small graft on the peghead overlay I used dyed pearwood from the black keys on the same pump organ.
I am familiar with the art of restoration and conservation as it is my living. You learn to know when certain liberties can be taken especially when working with not such valuable pieces.
I've attached before and after photos of a more recent 'restoration' of a lovely and very rare pre revolutionary Russian made violin. I'll leave it to your imaginations to figure out what had caused the damage.
jbalch - Posted - 12/17/2010: 05:55:54
Luke:
It looks like you did a very fine job. I've always admired your work.
It seems to me like Fesso went to the right fellow for this project. This old classic is again a playable instrument that any worthy musician should be pleased to own.
I can't help but think that the maker and original owner of this banjo would be very well pleased to see such care and skill invested today to bring her back to useful life.
Best Wishes!
Edited by - jbalch on 12/17/2010 06:05:17
lukemercier - Posted - 12/17/2010: 06:12:52
Thanks John,
You've always been supportive of my work.
Just for fun, I Thought I'd try to post these pics of a violin restoration I completed last year.
The wood used for the through-patch was harvested from the underside of the belly allowing me to match the grain lines and also have original belly material to work with when the time came to re-touch the varnish to the point of an invisible repair.
Earned a few more gray hairs through this project.
Best of the holiday season to all of you.
GerryH - Posted - 12/18/2010: 05:14:30
Congrats on a great find. What a wonderful job Luke M. did in fashioning a new neck for you. Enjoy your new old banjo!
GerryH
fesso - Posted - 12/18/2010: 07:25:15
quote:
Originally posted by jbalch
Luke: This old classic is again a playable instrument that any worthy musician should be pleased to own.
i hope to one day be worthy of it, I am still quite a novice player but i am going to practice and play my ass off to make it so! At the risk of ridicule Here's how it sounds:
youtube.com/watch?v=UFkbK7IVlA..._embeddedThanks for all the well wishes everyone!
Edited by - fesso on 12/19/2010 17:38:16
jbalch - Posted - 12/18/2010: 08:49:04
Mighty fine indeed!
beezaboy - Posted - 12/18/2010: 08:59:51
I'm late to the party but congratulations on your
new banjo and the fine restoration you treated it to.
I really like to see old weathered instruments brought
back to life.
BTW - your slides on the fretless are really nice.
fesso - Posted - 12/19/2010: 17:48:03
Thanks everybody and Rob (who posted on the video page), that means something to me coming from you. i have been a fan of your playing for quite some time. i actually found Luke Mercier almost 2 years ago after seeing one of your videos. i loved the sound and look of your banjo so i searched what kind of banjo you were playing and voila! turns out that Luke lives a 1/2 hour drive from our cabin we are building out in the bush.
i saw/see that you are going to pass your Mercier Dobson on, if i didn't just get mine i would have bought yours for sure! what a beautiful banjo, i hope one day i can make mine sing like yours!
blm10jn - Posted - 12/19/2010: 18:18:24
I am not envious of a Dobson banjo of any sort. I simply pointed out what the word restoration meant. That the owner is happy is wonderful and is all that is important.
Viper - Posted - 12/20/2010: 09:59:08
quote:
Originally posted by fesso
Thanks everybody and Rob (who posted on the video page), that means something to me coming from you. i have been a fan of your playing for quite some time. i actually found Luke Mercier almost 2 years ago after seeing one of your videos. i loved the sound and look of your banjo so i searched what kind of banjo you were playing and voila! turns out that Luke lives a 1/2 hour drive from our cabin we are building out in the bush.
i saw/see that you are going to pass your Mercier Dobson on, if i didn't just get mine i would have bought yours for sure! what a beautiful banjo, i hope one day i can make mine sing like yours!
Looks and sounds great. Luke did a wonderful job. I love the look of the fingerboard. Nice restoration! ... oops, I mean modification. Cheers!
GerryH - Posted - 12/20/2010: 17:29:35
Sounds good!
GerryH
fesso - Posted - 12/20/2010: 19:54:07
Like i said before i can't put it down, i have been working out a tune with loads of slides... i am loving it!! here's Home with the girls in the morning from Mike Iverson's tabs:
youtube.com/watch?v=UdfOb8tW4s0
Paul R - Posted - 12/27/2010: 07:43:37
Just found this thread again.
You did the right thing and took it to the right person. Good sound, good playing, excellent "restoration to playable condition". These old instruments are priceless and should be kept/made playable whenever possible. Hope to see more videos real soon.
Happy holidays.
