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jbalch - Posted - 09/11/2010: 08:49:22
Polle:
I understand completely. In that other photo, the top of the rim looks very clean as if it might have been cut. But that is deceiving. It appears that this banjo is all original. I think it was bought and played for a while...then put in the closet in New York for a few decades. It is a real "closet classic."
The case pocket was full of great period goodies. The name of the original (I assume) owner, Ruth Vedder, is written on the inside of a lapel button for the Stephen St. John banjo orchestra. That is why I call this one "Ruth."
Check out the photos on my homepage. banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...umid=2857
I learn from you guys every day! Thanks for sharing.
Edited by - jbalch on 09/11/2010 10:54:31
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 09/11/2010: 10:07:47
John,
I´ve never met Ladies like these - I wonder - how is their sound and power compared with that of f.ex. standard Senorita´s and early Special´s - without the spun "tone ring"?
Do you know or do you have some personal experiences?
Polle
Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 09/11/2010 10:15:41
jbalch - Posted - 09/11/2010: 10:51:57
Polle:
I have not personally had a B&D without the spun sleeve. I don't know if it makes any difference at all.
I will say that I love the voice of this banjo. It is quite different than my 1925 Silver Bell. But I enjoy both equally.
At current prices ($300-600 +/-) I think these non-Silver Bell, made-in-Groton, banjos (including: Gordons, Lyrics and all the others) are fantastic values.
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 09/13/2010: 11:52:31
quote:
Originally posted by geezr
And here's another one
cgi.ebay.com/Banjo-Vintage-Arm...55d4b004e
WOW! Thanks Jay!
That's a handsome peghead. Never saw it before. I wish they gave the serial.
So, we now have "Armstrong" to add to the "Private Label-by-Bacon" list.
(or "Your-Name Here"-by-Bacon?)
Best-
Ed Britt
jbalch - Posted - 09/13/2010: 14:39:02
That is a very nice one for sure. I love the peghead.
I've been watching it...but did not want to post about it until the auction ends...just in case some of you fine folks might be bidding. If so...good luck!
jbalch - Posted - 09/16/2010: 17:36:52
The Armstrong sold for $197 plus shipping.
Given that a Pre-War presto by itself would bring about $150...someone got a great deal.
beezaboy - Posted - 10/21/2010: 13:58:13
Yes, ARMSTRONG is a keeper!
Here is the page from Progressive Musical Instrument Catalog
copyright 1935. Now we know the jobber for whom Bacon
made this brand.
rudykizuty - Posted - 10/21/2010: 16:42:24
Wow....nice investigative work, Beez!!
beezaboy - Posted - 11/22/2010: 11:05:56
quote:
Kingston (I think?)
Yes, KINGSTON, for sure.
This one even has serial number: 34974.
cgi.ebay.com/1918-1919-Kingsto...5f6f602d6 quote:
Kingston is a Gretsch "thing"
No, no, no....
We're agreed not to start Gretsch until 355XX.
Edited by - beezaboy on 11/22/2010 11:08:22
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/22/2010: 12:24:17
John,
My first two KINGSTON records were wrongly placed in the POST-GROTON department.
They have now been moved - together with the new records we do now have four examples from 1936/37.
Regarding the last Groton SN - on basis on some intensive research I´ve for now set this to 35701.
Polle
beezaboy - Posted - 11/22/2010: 16:12:45
35701 35701 35701 35701 35701 35701 35701
Okay.
Had to repeat it a few times so I could remember.
This is an important number to a Gretschie.
35702 should be a Brooklyn Bacon Type III (all Gretsch parts
assembled by Gretsch craftsmen.)
Anybody got that one so we can look at it!!!
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/22/2010: 23:45:11
John,
Sorry - but no!
The POST-GROTON´s do NOT follow the Bacon serial number sequence.
I´ve personally inspected the next three banjos with SN´s above 35701 - 36805, 37600 & 39777.
Polle
jbalch - Posted - 01/19/2011: 08:13:06
I wonder if the tailpiece on that Armstrong is original...My guess is no.
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 06/14/2011: 20:14:44
Way back on 8/1/2010 ...
quote:
Originally posted by jbalch
The thread about the Briggs Special on ebaY got me thinking. I've seen B&D banjos marked a few different ways:
Gordon,
Tatham,
Pifer,
Briggs Special,
Kingston (I think?)
Are you aware of other B&D (Bacon Co.) pseudonyms?
I just ran across this:
ETUDE - November 1941
volume LIX -- number 11
page 791, 793
The Future of the Fretted Instruments
By George C. Krick
... Other bands and orchestras whose membership is fifty or more include the Karch Plectro Symphony of Cincinnati, Ohio; Tatham's Y. M. C. A. Banjo Band, Detroit, Michigan; Gehman-Hunsberger Orchestra, Lansdale, Pennsylvania; McMichael's Plectro-Phonic Band, Newark, Ohio; Dyer's String Band, St. Joseph, Missouri; Weiser's Plectro-Phonic Orchestra, Johnstown, Pennsylvania; Pflueger's Hawaiian Orchestra, Cincinnati, Ohio; Waddington's Venetian Orchestra, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada; Guzzardo's String Orchestra, Rockford, Illinois; Pifer's Banjo Band, Bellefonte, Pennsylvania; and the Halsted Hawaiian Orchestra, Buffalo, New York.
...
I've always felt that some of those "B&D + Odd Name" banjos were made for Banjo Clubs, Banjo Bands, or Music Schools. It seems that both the "Tatham" and the "Pifer" B&Ds were probably made for Banjo Bands. (I want one with
"Plectro-Phonic" on the peghead!)
Best-
Ed Britt
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 06/14/2011 20:26:42
jbalch - Posted - 06/15/2011: 06:11:46
Great detective work.
My 1934 Special #2 came with a lapel pin from the Stephen St. Johns plectrum orchestra in NY.
On ebaY, I found a copy of Mr. St. John's "Learnright Method" book (published 1932). . There is a photo on the cover of his "prize-winning" orchestra in concert a Madison Square Garden. There are at least 150 banjos in the group. Can you imagine what that must have sounded like?
I'm sure that banjo club business was very important to B&D.
Edited by - jbalch on 06/15/2011 06:12:38
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 06/15/2011: 14:32:08
Hi John --
I LIVED on the outskirts of Schenectady during my senior year in high school.
My friend's mom had a B&D Serenader, that she got from taking lessons with
Stephen St John. THAT was the first B&D I'd seen -- and I've been hooked
ever since.
St. John's personal banjo is in the collection of the American Banjo Museum.
And St John WAS one of the TOP sellers of Bacon banjos. His photo is is in a
couple of the late-20s Bacon catalogs. There were a quite a few SSJ Bacon's
around,when I was in Schenectady. I bought a mint Senorita, from a classmate's
Dad, for $25. He had also taken lessons from SSJ.
St. John did a concert at Madison Square Garden, In NYC with something like
300 or 350 people playing fretted instruments! (I've seen a article about it
somewhere...)
So... I wind up here, in Wakefield, MA -- which was home to the "9:29ers" Banjo
Band. (Tom Mirisola was a longtime member!) It was one of the early "revival'
banjo bands, and started as an offshoot of a local church men's group.
It gets weirder... It was started by Charlie and Getrude Nute, back in the early
1950s. When I first moved here, in 1980, I quickly heard about Gert Nute, and
wanted to get an introduction, to meet her. In the meantime, my sister-in-law
was bugging me to go visit her 'aunt' -- who used to teach music. So guess
who her 'aunt' turned out to be!
Gert told me they got the 9:29ers started, thanks to Stephen St. John! He
had given them a lot of banjo arrangements of old tunes. He used to visit
and stay with them, when he was in the area. She gave me a letter he
had sent them, on his old stationery. (It's in a file somewhere!)
I still think you need see if the button belonged to a relative of Eddie Vedder!
My daughter -- who's now 31(!) used to love him in high school.. I made a
bet that he'd be playing banjo one day... Time to COLLECT!
Best-
Ed Britt
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 06/15/2011 14:40:03
jbalch - Posted - 06/15/2011: 18:30:44
I tried to research an Eddie Vedder connection. But did not come up with anything. From what I understand, Vedder is his mother's maiden name. His family indeed has roots in the Fulton Co, NY area. This banjo came to me from upstate NY and belonged to Ruth vedder. But I could make no connection between Eddie Vedder's family and Ruth.
I did find a photo of a Ruth Vedder Schmidt who grew up in the Catskills. Apparently she died in Texas a few years ago. This photo is from a reunion of the the Catskill high school where she attended. My banjo might have belonged to her...who knows? Ruth Vedder Schmidt is standing.
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 06/15/2011: 19:10:19
Aren't banjos amazing! They lead you into all sorts of interesting journeys!
Love the photo! I always enjoy having a photo of the original owner, if possible.
An old banjo is a reminder of different times, places, and people.
Best-
Ed Britt
PS - Just noticed the copyright date on St. John's book -- 1967.
That's the year I lived in Schenectady! (Actually the Town of Guilderland, NY - near
intersection of Rt 20 and Rt 146.) Moved there the Summer of '67, and graduated
Guilderland HS in June '68.
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 06/15/2011 19:20:21
rudykizuty - Posted - 06/15/2011: 20:34:11
quote:
Originally posted by BrittDLD1
Aren't banjos amazing! They lead you into all sorts of interesting journeys!
Love the photo! I always enjoy having a photo of the original owner, if possible.
An old banjo is a reminder of different times, places, and people.
Best-
Ed Britt
PS - Just noticed the copyright date on St. John's book -- 1967.
That's the year I lived in Schenectady! (Actually the Town of Guilderland, NY - near
intersection of Rt 20 and Rt 146.) Moved there the Summer of '67, and graduated
Guilderland HS in June '68.
Hey, Ed. You wouldn't happen to have stayed in Schenectady long, would you? Perhaps long enough to sell a young lad from Philly (and his Dad) a tenor Sultana that was his first "real" banjo in 1978?
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 06/15/2011: 21:54:08
quote:
Originally posted by rudykizuty
Hey, Ed. You wouldn't happen to have stayed in Schenectady long, would you? Perhaps long enough to sell a young lad from Philly (and his Dad) a tenor Sultana that was his first "real" banjo in 1978?
Hi Anthony -
Nope. Not me. I was only there for one year. Then I headed off to Syracuse, for college,
in the Fall of '68. My parents decided they wanted a bit more room, and bought some
land, across the Hudson, in a little town called Malden Bridge -- near Old Chatham, NY.
(Also home to singer/guitarist Rory Block for a few years.)
I was still in Syracuse, in '78. But the Albany/Schenectady/Troy area had a LOT of folk,
and acoustic music back then. (Still does...) A lot of people were buying and selling old
instruments...
Around that time It might have been Steve Brown who sold you that. He's a repairman/
dealer in Schenectady. He handled John Bernunzio's sales for a year-or-so back then.
(While John was in Europe... That might have been the early-'80s... Not sure...)
Best,
Ed Britt
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 06/15/2011 21:57:05
rudykizuty - Posted - 06/16/2011: 02:44:05
Thanks, Ed. My youthful ignorance and the passage of time has dulled the memory a good bit. The most that I recall about the gentleman we met that day was that he a) played 5-string and b) had a beard. And knowing your interest in B&Ds, when you mentioned Schenectady I started thinking "Hey, wait a minute...." LOL Oh, and I do remember that it was July 4, 1978. Was a strange day to be driving all the way from Philly just to buy a banjo. But I must say, THAT was a good holiday!!
Edited by - rudykizuty on 06/16/2011 02:45:25
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