ELWOOD - Posted - 11/23/2009:  12:48:51

Builders , What can be done to make turn of the century friction tuners really useable, I have an antique 1880's Cole style 5 string, cant just drill it out and chunk in gears without losing value , I also want to play this banjo as its got a great voice . Your best solutions please..............Steve

Edited by - ELWOOD on 11/23/2009 16:37:30

xnavyguy - Posted - 11/23/2009:  13:20:34

If you can get 'em adjusted where they will hold tuning, I would say that's the best you can expect. Friction tuners can be a beach to deal with, though, when you are in a situation of needing to capo or change to alternate tunings.

BConk - Posted - 11/23/2009:  13:30:08

IMO - if it is an 1870s Cole - it should be wearing nylon, gut or nylgut strings. Those old banjos were not made to withstand the effects of steel strings and with nylon, gut or nylgut, friction tuners are far less of a PITA than they are with steel.

Having said that - if you're intent on using steel or using geared tuners on nylon strings, then you might look into small diameter shaft tuners. I'm not sure if they make them any more but Elderly used to carry some from Schaller.

Edited by - BConk on 11/23/2009 13:32:19

deuceswilde - Posted - 11/23/2009:  13:47:10

Yes, nylon or gut only.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/23/2009:  14:09:29

I didn't think Cole made banjos in the 1870s. Mugwumps lists him as starting in 1880. Definitely gut or nylon strings, which should mean the tuners will work if tightened down. They won't adjust, really, but might benefit from disassembly and cleaning with a dry rag.

Frank Ford - Posted - 11/23/2009:  15:21:46

Friction pegs can be the simple wood, ivory or plastic ones that fit in tapered holes, and usually they can be made to work a bit more smoothly by the use of a bit of violin "peg dope" - available from violin shops.

Mechanical (patent) pegs have a central screw through the button that you tighten to increase the friction and holding power. The most important bit of improvement for this type is to take the screw all the way out, lubricate the threads with oil, and replace it. the reduced friction in the threads will make adjustment easier.

ELWOOD - Posted - 11/23/2009:  16:36:23

Good answers, Thank you, I have it strung with Aquilla classic nylaguts and it does sound good . The pegs ,Ivory,I Think are tapered like viola pegs and hold just fine, but when it needs tweeking thats when the whole thing goes wrong. they could use a good cleaning but I wanted to get some good advise as to the process as water is all I would be unafraid to try here I,ll chat with the local fiddle guy to see if the taper is off , and the peg dope is a choice That sounds promising. I wonder if some violin rosin may have been used here to control slippage and its gooped up the works. Any Thoughts?

Edited by - ELWOOD on 11/23/2009 16:42:05

deuceswilde - Posted - 11/23/2009:  16:49:13

O.K., maybe this will help...






It may just take a little 19th century knowledge.

ELWOOD - Posted - 11/23/2009:  17:31:04

Wow ,now that is concise, they covered every possible bone headed thing that I may have tried, not only do I have some great info ,but the antique package and the tab is all very cool....Thanks for that I,am sure to be plunking away in perfect "Tune". Steve

oneoldbanjo - Posted - 11/24/2009:  05:51:23

There is a mechanical tuner made to fit into the tapered holes. The are called "Pegheads" and they look just like a black tapered tuning peg but have gears inside. You can email Bob Smakula at: smakula@meer.net....or check with Elderly, Bernunzios, etc. The following link only shows them on a fiddle - but they do work on banjos and they even make a special one for the fifth string.

Here is a link for pegheads: http://pegheds.com/

Edited by - oneoldbanjo on 11/24/2009 08:22:00

rexhunt - Posted - 11/24/2009:  07:00:02

Find a good violin shop and get some peg dope. I'm not really sure what it is but I think it's something like liquid rosin. Violin rosin also works on your kind of friction pegs. If the best classical violin players can deal with wooden pegs with the kind of tension on a violin, a lower tension gut strung banjo should have no problems with the proper setup.

Rex