bkaspar3 - Posted - 11/17/2009:  14:04:29

Hey gang,
Just got a new AT 4033 CL condenser. Any suggestions on a DI with phantom power that I can use to eliminate feedback problems and still get lots of volume.

-Bob

Edited by - gottasmilealot on 11/19/2009 07:34:27

robinsmith - Posted - 11/17/2009:  14:25:32

if you think of a straight line with speakers at each end and the mike in the middle, placing the mike back from the fronts of the speakers. This has worked for my band.

..........................front................................
X________________________________X

......................mic.........................

~pikit wilson~

http://robinsmithfinearts.com
http://baldmountainrounders.com

eagleisland - Posted - 11/17/2009:  14:32:26

Make sure that the mic is well back of the speakers, as suggested. Engage the high pass filter. "Ring out" the room with parametric EQ, if you have it.

Oh, and look for this thread in a different forum - most likely Other Banjo Related Topics. The Mods like to keep this one for bluegrass plahing advice.

eagleisland

"I was halfway to Old Kentucky when the drugs began to kick in." - Hunter S. Monroe

banjonz - Posted - 11/17/2009:  18:17:39

Bob, a DI box by itself will not achieve what you want. You really need to run the mic into a mixing desk that has a feedback destroyer on it. I am not certain that a destroyer is available as a stand lone box that goes between the mic and a desk.

Wayne
New Zealand


My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.

answerguru - Posted - 11/17/2009:  18:49:05

I've been looking into feedback destroyers recently....good reviews for the Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro FBQ2496. It's inexpensive as well - ~$140. I haven't used it myself yet, but it's on my purchase list when I see a good deal. Typically you would put this between the mixer and the amp (either standalone or active speaker).



---------------
answerguru

earl91 - Posted - 11/19/2009:  07:12:13

Their are several on the market. We use a Sabine Solo with ours also the Behringer Sharks would be good.

pearcemusic - Posted - 11/19/2009:  07:29:13

DIs are for unbalanced line level to balanced line level connections to a console ... not for mic inputs.

a phantom powered mic pre-amp is what you might be looking for ... like on any decent console ... or ala carte .. like a ..

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...p?sku=184125

I'm not a fan of feedback supressors, but prefer a decent 31 band eq to "ring out" the room manually. You can teach yourself to hear the "rings" and do a much better job of making your room sound good.

GerhardP - Posted - 11/19/2009:  08:06:28

I am aware of two feedback destroyers that provide a direct microphone input with phantom power. The Behringer DSP110 Shark and the Sabine SM820.

I have the little Behringer Shark and just recently bit the bullet and invested in a Sabine, not the small SM820, but the rackmounted FBX2410. It doesn't have mic inputs, it goes between mixer output and power amp. That might be an option for your setup too, plug the mic into a mixer that also provides phantom power, the mixer into the rack mount Sabine and that into the power amp.

The difference is tremendous! The Shark sort of worked, but took ages to discover feedback, even in the 'learn' mode. Also we felt, that it takes a lot of the 'good sound' away too, not just the feedback, With some learning how to use it and not overdo the learning we got to the point where it helped a little.

The Sabine is a completely different animal. The learning setup is really quiet, as it cuts in immediately when the feedback just starts. And it killed feedback while playing, something we never let the Shark do, as it would completely overreact and kill the music along with the feedback. The Sabine never seemed to harm the sound like the Shark does.

There is a major price difference between Behringer and Sabine, but you'll never want to go back to the Shark once you tried the Sabine.

All that said, your best weapon against feedback is the proper placement of microphones and speakers. You can get pretty far when the speakers are far away from the stage, pointing away from it and in front of the mic(s). The feedback destroyer just goves you a little more volume before the howling starts.

Gerhard

pdbanjo - Posted - 11/19/2009:  09:56:30

We have been using a AT4033 for years but I must tell you there are just some rooms that a single mic is next to impossible to use. These are usually venues like auditoriums or similar types of rooms that have a big echo in them and or have hard concrete block walls. Even a small room with a hard back wall can prove difficult, too. Open air venues and theaters are the best for dealing with feedback without much additional gear but it's best to have an EQ to help with those frequencies that can rear their ugliness at times. As stated above, the correct mic and speaker placement is essential with the slightest positioning of 2 feet or less meaning feedback or not.
1st: Set your EQ to optimum IE: all sliders level at the middle of their frequencies.
2nd: If feedback occurs it sometimes is helpful to just move the mic around on stage a couple feet (side to side, forward or backward) and/or change the direction of the FOH speakers to point right or left a smidge (also, try them higher or lower if they are stand mounted).
3rd: Once you have found the positions of mic and speakers that cause the least feedback then attempt to dial out the offending freqs using the EQ. Assume that once there are people occupying space in a the room that you may have to reconfigure the EQ to accomodate for them.
All in all, it means you have to practice dialing in a single mic set up as much or more than just how the group choreographs how they will play and sing into it. A good thing to keep in mind especially when playing a new venue for the first time, is to bring enough mics and other equipment so that you can abort the single mic and go to a mulitple mic set up quickly, if necesary. Something else to remember is to keep a journal of the best mic/speaker positions used and EQ settings for each of the various venues you play to aid in future set ups and sound checks.
You'll learn more as you go but these are the basics we apply for every show we do that we are required to deal with sound reinforcement. We feel a single mic set up is the best way to play acoustically with the exception of actually not having a sound reinforcement system at all or making sure we don't have to deal with those dagnabbed PA gremlins in the first place.
Good Luck!!

The Old Timer - Posted - 11/19/2009:  12:48:29

We've never had trouble with out two A-T 3033s for bluegrass PA work.

BUT, we don't use monitors. Using monitors is very difficult with these mikes. If you can get it to work at all without feedback, the monitors are VERY low volume.

Good luck!

pdbanjo - Posted - 11/20/2009:  14:11:53

I should have pointed out the "NO MONITORS" thing but I figured that was well known. You can't use monitors with a single mic set up for two reasons. 1. feedback will happen if you do and 2. feedback will happen if you do. There's a 3rd reason that I can't remember right now but it has something to do with feedback, I think.