scottgrass - Posted - 11/05/2008:  12:05:40

I recently traded for a 89 Gibson Granada and a 93 model RB250. The granada was from a professional player and came to me sounding really great without any tinkering. The RB250 came to me looking great but the tone was off especially in the 1st and 2nd strings. I did some tinkering with the head and was checking the head tension with a drum dial (taught to me by NDJohn) and I could not get one area of the head up to tension with the rest of the head. Sure enough when I took the head off to see if it was busted it had a 3 inch split in it. And still was holding 85 on the drum dial. I put an old pre epa remo head on it and took the stellling bridge off and put a Snuffy Smith 3 on it I had. (Tom Guinn taught me about these SS bridges) and Cleaned up the hardware. Took the tension off the coordinator rods and put some GF 150 strings on it. Not sure I have ever had a banjo jump into gear so quick after a setup. I have not been a fan of later model gibsons and have had a few, Even some Greg Rich Gibsons, but got rid of them when they were young. But these two really are great instruments. Nicely fitted and finished and with some great tone after 15-20 years. Very enjoyable and productive two hours this afternoon.

"all of us are ignorant, just about different things" will rogers

DIV - Posted - 11/05/2008:  12:09:23

Sounds great, Dave
Reminder please: Greg Rich era Gibsons are from 1988 to 1995 or so?

Dan Varadi

flake - Posted - 11/05/2008:  13:31:04

Dan----I believe Greg started sometime in '87. He left in 1993.


mike

Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?

Forrest - Posted - 11/05/2008:  14:01:02

The Greg Rich era as I understand it was 1987 to early/mid 1993.

"Run, Forrest, Run!"

Cabin_Hill - Posted - 11/05/2008:  14:18:54

Who??????????????

glsmi - Posted - 11/05/2008:  15:52:05

88-92 is my understaning

Majorbanjo - Posted - 11/05/2008:  16:43:24

I've got a prototype of the reissued RB4 that was made in the Rich Era...that is one of the best banjos I've ever played...I'm not a great player but this one just flat out has "IT"......no matter what the weather, the set up, the strings....it just sounds and plays great.......at one time I had about 20 banjos....I've got three now......I kept the first banjo I bought (Early 60's RB100).....and a 49/50' PB-150 conversion that I turned into an RB250 bowtie that I love as well.....but I pretty much only play the Rich era RB4 prototype........I sold my 28' Granada, my rich era granada (wish I'd kept) my 35' TB-3.....4 Hubers....my Chief......3 style 11 conversions....my 27 tb3 conversion....and various other banjos......I kicked around selling the RB4 at one time when I was heavily into guitars and was offered a "HUGE" amount for it since it was owned and played by some banjo heavy hitters....but in the end I backed out and kept it......and I'm glad I did......

banjodr - Posted - 11/05/2008:  16:45:39

Oh where Oh where has old grich gone? Oh where oh where can he B.?

Tooth doctor by day......Banjodr by whatever means possible.....

scottgrass - Posted - 11/05/2008:  17:12:00

Thats what I thought 87-93. But I am just going on what I have read on the HO.

"all of us are ignorant, just about different things" will rogers

Gomer - Posted - 11/05/2008:  20:48:42

This business about the Grich or Mr. Grich, or what ever is a proper and respectful address is truly a wonderment to me. I have had occasion to mention the name in writing only to get occult e-mails warning against uttering the name. I am truly not clear on this and yet I am very clear on many other things. Is there a society or perhaps some type of religious war? I remember as a child asking if I could drink the whole glass of grape juice as I approached the communion table. That did not go over very well either.
I am led to appreciate a connection to Gibson. I see that both names begin AND end with consonants. They are both connected to banjos. A coincidence? I am only asking the question.

"ever searching for that special post-war / pre-submerged sound"

( )=====’==::

DIV - Posted - 11/05/2008:  21:07:15

Hey Trey--

As you know, I'm a HUGE fan of the walnut Style 4's and was admiring your RB4 Prototype. Can you please educate me on what exactly it's a prototype and not a regular re-issue RB4. I notice that the heel is not capped (just like the prewars: no heel cap). All of the re-issues I've seen have capped heels. What else is different about yours. What year was it made? And sorry if I should be asking of you privately.

Thanks, bud...

Dan Varadi

Peter Blair - Posted - 11/06/2008:  11:34:48

Just to chime in; I have a 1990 RB-4. (also no heel cap) Everywhere I ever go and play this thing, I get all kinds of praise for the way it sounds. To me, it ALWAYS sound EXACTLY like you want it to, and expect it to. I love it. Now if I could just get half as much praise for the way I play it!!!

Pete

Edited by - Peter Blair on 11/06/2008 11:36:58

Wayne Holcombe - Posted - 11/06/2008:  12:23:29

My 1991 RB-4 is a wonderful banjo.I replaced the tonering with a Hopkins rings and had all the metal chrome plated.All I need now is a poplar lining in the resonator to make things right.
Wayne

Wayne Holcombe - Posted - 11/06/2008:  12:23:47

My 1991 RB-4 is a wonderful banjo.I replaced the tonering with a Hopkins rings and had all the metal chrome plated.All I need now is a poplar lining in the resonator to make things right.
Wayne

silvioferretti - Posted - 11/06/2008:  12:41:00

Dan, all the original prewar Gibson necks I've seen do have heel caps. What's the story?...

"Conversation like television set on wedding night: not necessary!" (Peter Sellers on "Murder by Death")

Silvio Ferretti http://www.scorpionmusic.com

rb4player - Posted - 11/06/2008:  13:56:54

The mahogany 4's have the WbW, don't most walnut 4's have a slightly darker (contrasting) wood heel cap? Inquiring minds . . .

Jim

El Dobro - Posted - 11/06/2008:  15:15:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by silvioferretti

Dan, all the original prewar Gibson necks I've seen do have heel caps. What's the story?...

"Conversation like television set on wedding night: not necessary!" (Peter Sellers on "Murder by Death")

Silvio Ferretti http://www.scorpionmusic.com

---

NDJohn - Posted - 11/06/2008:  17:56:36

Dan,

My RB-4 is a Rich-era (4-9104-33) and has no heel cap. It's near-mint and has always sounded great--that tubby metallic sound you associate with Kenny Ingram. A great banjo--and David, I've always heard that Greg (who's currently locked out, it seems), was at Gibson from '87 to '93.

Best,

John


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John Miller
ej.miller@ndsu.edu or ejmiller@ideaone.net

DIV - Posted - 11/08/2008:  11:39:40

As far as the heel cap, the 2 piece flange models have an ivorioid heel cap, but the one piece flange models have NO heel cap.
Here are a few examples, I could provide MANY more...

The Dana Cupp RB-4 has no heel cap:

The Margaret Boote RB4 (from Greg Earnest's site): No heel cap:

The Manfred Cannaday RB4: No heel cap:

Here's a TB4 for sale by Jeff Cantrell: again NO heel cap:

Here's the Ralph Marquadt PB4 that was sold some years ago by Elderly, again no heel cap.

...I could go on and on...

Dan Varadi

Edited by - DIV on 11/08/2008 23:50:22

silvioferretti - Posted - 11/08/2008:  12:16:31

Dan, you can only see a heelcap from the side of the heel, when it's made of the same wood. Anybody with experience in woodworking can make a heelcap (out of the same piece of wood as the rest of the neck) that matches the neck - and its heel - perfectly, down to the curls of maple and the darker streaks of Honduras mahogany. With old Gibsons, though, they pretty much slapped whatever piece of wood they had, usually 1/8" thick or sometimes thicker, and with the same grain direction as the heel fibers.

The purpose of the heelcap was originally to hide the hole that they had to drill for the lower lag bolt, which was L-shaped, but they continued putting one there for some reason (cosmetical I guess), after they changed to the regular lag bolts. At any rate, if you meant "heelcap made of contrasting wood or plastic or MOP" then you're right, only a few models had that.

"Conversation like television set on wedding night: not necessary!" (Peter Sellers on "Murder by Death")

Silvio Ferretti http://www.scorpionmusic.com

rexhunt - Posted - 11/08/2008:  14:53:53

I still have the tenor neck from my Dad's 34 TB-4 and it does have a wooden heel cap. Don't know what kind of wood it is - always assumed it was walnut like the rest of the neck.

Rex

desert rose - Posted - 11/08/2008:  22:14:01

Silvio is of course correct

All the prewars had heel caps, the threes had a thin mahogany heel cap on the mahogny neck the fours had a thin walnut heel cap as you can see in those pictures the grain on the heel doesnt match the neck exactly, these are usually about 2 mm thick or so

In the early days the lower lag bolt was glued in and L shaped, the heel cap covered the machining

The effect was carried over even after the bolts were both screwed in making the need for the heel cap unnecessary

Scott

DIV - Posted - 11/08/2008:  23:49:24

ahhh....MAJOR foot in mouth over here. you guys are absolutely right. I'm embarrassed. Here's the heel of my TB4 (refinished) neck and it does indeed have a heel cap, just a slightly darker color.


My bad. Sorry....I was fooled by the similarity of wood color and grain. I learn something new everyday!!

Dan Varadi

silvioferretti - Posted - 11/09/2008:  02:22:44

No problem, Dan, as they say in Naples "Nobody was born learned" . Re the way heel caps were / are made, I've noticed quite extreme differences from one to the other (2 mm is in fact a very common thickness, but the one on a friend of mine's PB-7 neck is almost 4 mm thick), and looks like they wanted the cap to stand out, as often the wood is from the same piece as the rest of the neck, but the cap is turned upside down so as to reflect light differently. Like in those terrible peghead ears...

But wasn't this thread about a different subject?...

"Conversation like television set on wedding night: not necessary!" (Peter Sellers on "Murder by Death")

Silvio Ferretti http://www.scorpionmusic.com

Edited by - silvioferretti on 11/09/2008 02:25:13

El Dobro - Posted - 11/09/2008:  08:16:37

Back to the subject. does Greg Rich have a heel cap?

Don
http://www.myspace.com/eldobro
http://www.myspace.com/pasttimesband
http://www.pasttimesbluegrassband.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/pasttimesbluegrass

Wayne Holcombe - Posted - 11/09/2008:  08:18:46

Only when he's wearing a hat.
Wayne

silvioferretti - Posted - 11/09/2008:  08:21:08

... on his foot of course...

"Conversation like television set on wedding night: not necessary!" (Peter Sellers on "Murder by Death")

Silvio Ferretti http://www.scorpionmusic.com

myfavefive - Posted - 03/04/2009:  08:42:35

Does anyone know exactly what makes the 88-92 Rich era Gibson banjos different from those made after that?

Did they use different woods for the rims, necks, etc.?
Did they use a different formula for the tone rings?
Just better fit and finish in assembly techniques?

What's the physical differences? Thanks


Tom

wrangler - Posted - 03/04/2009:  09:33:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wayne Holcombe

Only when he's wearing a hat.
Wayne

---

ninethirtyfive - Posted - 03/04/2009:  11:20:01

You have a choice here

You can read about what people think they know here , or ask him for yourself
at the OBS !

Hotrodtruck - Posted - 03/04/2009:  14:34:56

"Does anyone know exactly what makes the 88-92 Rich era Gibson banjos different from those made after that?"

As I understand it (and those closer to the situation may correct me), Greg and Doug Hutchens came to Gibson at a time when there was also a corporate commitment to re-esrablish the quality, sound, and construction of the best pre-war days. Greg and Doug each had skills and abilities to make it happen. Those banjos are, indeed, special. I have not owned a newer Gibson, so I cannot comment on whether the commitment remains, but I hope so.

Mike

"I thought I was dancing, until someone stepped on my hand!"

silvioferretti - Posted - 03/04/2009:  14:47:12

AFAIK one should not forget the names of Jim Triggs and Bob Day when talking about the Greg Rich era at Gibson... Also remember that designers are fundamental, especially in orienting production towards quality and time-honored specs, but so are luthiers and craftsmen in making sure that those specs are transferred to wood and metal.

"Just once I would like to hear you scream in pain" "Play some rap music..." Bruce Willis on The Last Boy Scout.

Silvio Ferretti http://www.scorpionmusic.com

ninethirtyfive - Posted - 03/04/2009:  14:54:33

Greg has posted here many times about all the folks that worked with him at Gibson . He's the first to admtt that they were the ones that really did the work , he always gave credit where credit was due !