howbah - Posted - 05/01/2008:  19:24:56

per the Seeger (Pete) book, in BLL style:

"The index finger not only picks the melody string, but right afterwards picks up across the top 2 or 3 strings at once. Lastly, the thumb string kicks off as before."

But according to a 2003 interview:

"I got to sit down with Lunsford, and he himself said, 'Now, you pick up on that middle string, now you pick up on the top string, and do that over and over, and then, right after the top string, you have the thumb string.'"

Which doesn't seem like the same thing at all.

The book seems to indicate a 1, 1+2+3, 5 pattern

and the interview suggests a 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 5 (?) pattern


Any thoughts/suggestions/comments?

Edited by - howbah on 05/01/2008 19:25:58

nohio - Posted - 05/01/2008:  19:38:31

Listening to the recordings, it sounds like he does both at different times. His explanation to Seeger might have been a simple way of explaining a highly variable technique.

chip arnold - Posted - 05/01/2008:  19:41:03

The book doesn't say to pick the 1st string first. It says melody string. The sequence he used was the same as countless non dropthumb, 2-finger pickers used. Index on the melody string, index picking UP on the 1st or when brushing, the 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd, thumb on th 5th. Start over.
In the interview, his explanation is confusing. What he means is...........pick the melody (could be middle) string, then the 1st string, then the thumb string.
This sequence has a rest between the two index strokes just like clawhammer, creating the bump-ditty rhythm. The rest can be filled with a left hand device like a slide or a pull. It can also be filled with a double thumb or a drop thumb. I don't think Mr Lunsford used any dropthumb. This 2-finger style was once common in N. Ga., Western N.C. and East Tennessee. Some pickers took the style to levels of great complexity. Listen to Will Keys playing. The basis for his style is simple index lead, 2-finger. A contemporary picker using this style is Marvin Gaster of Lee, Co., N.C. His playing uses almost no brushes and no dropthumb, (except for 3/4 time) a lot of double thumbing, a lot of left hand gymnastics and it results in a beautiful, delicate, lyrical sound.
You can find some good video of Bascom on youtube. His right hand is easily visible in the films.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

brokenstrings - Posted - 05/01/2008:  20:09:33

Well, thanks, Chip, I'm glad I'm not the only one who found that confusing.

Jessy

Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!

Galante_K4 - Posted - 05/01/2008:  20:15:01

I learned it from Seeger's book also. In the last several years though I've been using my middle finger instead of the index. I find it helps my precision and I can move a lot quicker than with the index finger.

"Admitting to yourself that you have BAS is the first step in recovery."

howbah - Posted - 05/01/2008:  20:44:26

Okay, here's some more, from the notes to his Folkways CD:

"Lunsford was adept at 2 styles of banjo playing. He favored a rhythmic up-picking technique, played by many old-time musicians of his generation in western North Carolina, on 'banjo songs' like Swannanoa Tunnel ... Although he picks and brushes the strings using upstrokes, the sound is similar to that heard in clawhammer ... On slower pieces such as In The Shadow Of The Pines ... he accompanies his singing by finger-picking the banjo."

Any chance the non-brush technique described in the later interview is the "finger-picking" technique referred to in the notes?

howbah - Posted - 05/01/2008:  20:46:05

quote:

---

Originally posted by chip arnold

...A contemporary picker using this style is Marvin Gaster of Lee, Co., N.C. His playing uses almost no brushes and no dropthumb, (except for 3/4 time) a lot of double thumbing, a lot of left hand gymnastics and it results in a beautiful, delicate, lyrical sound.
...

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

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oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/01/2008:  20:50:25

Only thing I can add to what Chip said is that the 1st string (or the 1st couple strings - whatever) is mostly used as a second drone in a lot of these styles. Obviously there could be a melody note in that position but when there is no melody note in that position, try to "de-emphasise" the drone stroke so that it tends to fade into the background - making the melody stand out.
The key to a lot of banjo playing is to make the melody obvious. Whether you do a down brush an up brush a down pick (whatever strokes you use), try to make sure that the melody is "featured".
If you aren't sure what notes ARE melody listen for the notes that match the lyrics -- Tunes with words are a lot easier to start with.


Rocket Science Banjo, Chapters 1 - 4.6 REVISED and 25 EZ tunes are ready now
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You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g
Banjo Brad is hosting How To Mold A Mighty Pinky adn other material at
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chip arnold - Posted - 05/01/2008:  20:54:53

We need gailg64 for this one! He played with and without brushes depending on the tune. I don't think he up-picked in the style now known as the "Seeger Style". But maybe he did. If so, it would explain the idea of two styles. I've only seen pictures and video of him with his hand braced on the head.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

chip arnold - Posted - 05/01/2008:  21:06:05

Here's a video of him playing and singing. http://youtube.com/watch?v=HopNyR4Vtk8 You can see his right hand pretty well here. I noticed that he flicks his finger out away from his palm for a rhythmic brush now and then. This was/is common with Old Time finger pickers.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

chip arnold - Posted - 05/01/2008:  21:17:03

Here ya go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn3hvcVM4Mw&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3YvBTQlPOc

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

howbah - Posted - 05/02/2008:  12:52:42

great videos ... nice to see the very positive comments from viewers!

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 05/04/2008:  19:41:42

Lunsford plays very much like Pete Seeger's basic strum, except his brushes come up, and Pete's go down. I think Doc Watson also plays like Bascomb Lunsford.
Paul

"A master banjo player isn't the one who can play the most notes. It's the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello

mwc9725e - Posted - 05/05/2008:  10:44:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by chip arnold

Here ya go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn3hvcVM4Mw&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3YvBTQlPOc

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

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chip arnold - Posted - 05/05/2008:  11:29:33

"Lunsford plays very much like Pete Seeger's basic strum, except his brushes come up, and Pete's go down."

The distinctive difference in "Seeger style" is that the hand is in the air above the strings while in the variety of OT 2-finger styles which includes Mr Lunsford's style, the trailing fingers are braced on the head. Another difference is that the finger styles generally do their brushes with the picking finger while the "Seeger style" players usually use a different finger.
================================================================================
"Looks to me like he brushes down once in a while, with his index?"

I think most index pickers who don't wear picks do this sometimes. I do.



**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold