If TIM becomes easy with time (eventually, for Owen) , why does the MIT feel so awkward? Is it because we use the forward roll so much more? Or is there some structural thing in our hands/fingers that cause us problems? Or is starting with the Middle finger more difficult because it has shared structural formations with the ring finger? Sonny Osborne, on his BHO thread, mentioned that it was more difficult. Some folks even suggest that Earl Scruggs arranged Home Sweet Home with backward rolls to keep them fluid for his overall playing. (see below). Groundspeed starts with two backward rolls,, I play the beginning of Turkey in the Straw with one, always drilling it a few times a week to keep it at par. (I've also included an Ai explanation)
Edited by - chuckv97 on 11/14/2026 14:46:56
An excellent topic!
While the forward roll is a no-brainer, the backward roll is something I have to actually think about and it’s harder to get smooth.
I’ve tried substituting a backward roll in place of a forward and it suddenly sounds more syncopated and interesting.
But what makes it harder?
I have no insights; I'm still workin' on TITM/TITM/TITM/etc. ..... the ^^ advanced stuff'll have to wait. 
I’m wondering now if Terry Martin , who plays upside down, has the same problem,,, waddya say, Terry?
The 1215 roll Osborne/
Dillard roll seems to give me some trouble at times . The 125 roll is awkward at first if I haven't used it in a while but that 1215 roll gives me a fit at times , well most of the time . I can’t kick Dooley off consistently. More practice I guess .
Great topic Chuck. While I have nothing to contribute here but interest, I will sure follow this and see the thoughts on this and how people have dealt with it.
One thing I have wondered on this: when I do forward backward roll (timtmitm) the 2nd half of ....the backwards half (mitm)...seems no more difficult than the forward half. BUT, when I do repeated & continuous backward rolls, it messes up.
Ken
Edited by - From Greylock to Bean Blossom on 11/14/2026 18:53:21
quote:
Originally posted by Will FradyThe 1215 roll Osborne/
Dillard roll seems to give me some trouble at times . The 125 roll is awkward at first if I haven't used it in a while but that 1215 roll gives me a fit at times , well most of the time . I can’t kick Dooley off consistently. More practice I guess .
I do that Dillard roll with MTMT.. I never could get any speed up doing it MIMT, but then I never worked at it because the other way seemed natural to me. I use the T a lot on the second string.
I suspect it's simply biomechanics... our digits are more powerful starting at the thumb side, and progressively weaker as we go towards the pinky. Perhaps not coincidentally, the muscles that move said digits are closest at the thumb and travel further up the arm (via tendons) as we get towards the wee fingers.
And the lesson here is fairly straightforward: if you want performance out of a weak muscle, you've got to strengthen it with practice.
Thanks, Skip… I think you nailed it. Everyone continue what you were doing.
when a person reaches and grabs an object that they can easily pick up with a thumb and finger clamp--the instinctive move is thumb then first finger --the first finger is used a lot more i--tying knots--using scissors --using a wash rag--etc etc--we are built that way --my view on it fwiw
These might help the situation….
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