This works. As you've determined, it's one of several ways the tune could be played.

What's happening in the descending melody lines starting at measures 1 on the G chord and 9 on the D chord is called a "line cliché": movement of a note step-by-step against a stationary chord. The movement can be in the bass, top voice, or inside. This movement creates the effect of a chord change.* Which means keeping the chord on the G (I chord) for measures 1-6 and then the D (V chord) on the second line in measures 9 through 12 is just as accurate as calling for the chords to changes within those lines.

This 1969/70 recording by Emerson Waldron (maybe the first) sounds to me as I describe: The band is holding G and D chords and the sound of chord changes comes from what the lead instrument is doing on top.

*Movement through one, three minor, six minor is a common line cliché. Plus, three minor and six minor are often chord substitutions for the one Major/tonic.

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

This works. As you've determined, it's one of several ways the tune could be played.

What's happening in the descending melody lines starting at measures 1 on the G chord and 9 on the D chord is called a "line cliché": movement of a note step-by-step against a stationary chord. The movement can be in the bass, top voice, or inside. This movement creates the effect of a chord change.* Which means keeping the chord on the G (I chord) for measures 1-6 and then the D (V chord) on the second line in measures 9 through 12 is just as accurate as calling for the chords to changes within those lines.

This 1969/70 recording by Emerson Waldron (maybe the first) sounds to me as I describe: The band is holding G and D chords and the sound of chord changes comes from what the lead instrument is doing on top.

 

*Movement through one, three minor, six minor is a common line cliché. Plus, three minor and six minor are often chord substitutions for the one Major/tonic.

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Very informative thank you! Yes it does seem like the main principle is a walk down on the bass note and it may or may not make much of a difference in a jam setting whether I'm fretting a Bm vs. a D major or an Em vs. a C major at frets 16 and 14, respectively. 

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Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjo

Yes it does seem like the main principle is a walk down on the bass note and it may or may not make much of a difference in a jam setting whether I'm fretting a Bm vs. a D major or an Em vs. a C major at frets 16 and 14, respectively. 

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To my ear, the walk down is the melody happening on the top. But, yes, the bass can move, too.

What I've bolded is an important realization about banjo lead playing in general. If you're going to be in a band situation, or at least playing with a guitar, the banjo doesn't have to play full chords. Other instruments will play the other chord notes. You're free to play only the notes you need. Even if you're playing completely solo, you don't have to express full chords all the time.  If you want to, fine.

You can play most of this tune fretting no more than two notes at a time. It's totally possible, and relatively easy, to play the first 4 measures of the G chord descending melody line fretting only one note at a time. Start on 2nd string at 8, work down from there, fretting only notes on 2nd string. The open 5th and 1st will be drones.

I actually prefer working down the fourth string @ 17th fret G chord. I get a wider range and I do really like my chord shapes. But I agree that hitting all the notes of a chord are less important than moving with the melody.

To my ear, and keeping to F and D shapes, the break sounds great at measures 1-4 with:

Measure 1 @17 G chord
Measure 2 @16 D chord
Measure 3 @14 C chord
Measure 4 @12 D chord

If I wanted to keep to the chord chart’s integrity as written, it would be more complicated to fret, especially since I’m still working on my muscle memories for minor chord shapes:

Measure 1 @17 G chord
Measure 2 @16 Bm chord
Measure 3 @14 Em chord
Measure 4 @12 G barre chord

Again to my ear, I really don’t hear that much of a difference between the D chord at 16 and the Bm at 16, for instance.

Bm notes @ 16, strings 4-1 = F#-B-D-F#
D notes @ 16, strings 4-1 = F#-A-D-F#

The difference between 1 note, B vs. A or 1 whole step apart in a cloud of sound and with a discernibly conspicuous descending melody line. Could A be considered a drone tone?

So you mentioned only needing to fret 1 or maybe 2 notes for any given chord shape. Which combination would you recommend with the root, the 3rd, and the 5th, or other chord tones?

The band is just playing G C and D chords as back up to the lead walking the scale

quote:

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Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjo

So you mentioned only needing to fret 1 or maybe 2 notes for any given chord shape. Which combination would you recommend with the root, the 3rd, and the 5th, or other chord tones?

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Well . . .

First 4 measures of G chord melody can be played fretting only 8, 7, 5 on 2nd string, with 4th measure starting on a choice of 1st open, 2nd at 3, or 2nd with 2-3 hammer. I sort of like 1st open on quarter note followed by 2-3 hammer on 2. The run is any roll you want. You can start on 2nd string and do various forward roll patterns. Or do Foggy Mountain Breakdown roll with or without a hammer into the fretted notes I named above.

Second 4 measures of G chord melody are "G noise" licks but ending on or resolving to a D. So one way I'd play it is landing on the open 4th then filling on the partial D that frets only 3rd string at 2 and plays only 4th, 3rd and 1st strings.

A two-fretted-notes version of the D chord melody works on 2nd and 1st strings: 7-7, 5-5, 3-4, 1-2, again picked in any pattern you want. Starting with 1st string quarter note then hammering into the 2nd string fretted note sounds good. It's a pattern you can repeat in lots of other songs.  The next measures are lick/filler again. Here, I'd use one of the all-purpose D to G licks.

There you have it.

I'm sure similar ideas will work in the rest of the song.

quote:

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Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjo

...you mentioned only needing to fret 1 or maybe 2 notes for any given chord shape. Which combination would you recommend with the root, the 3rd, and the 5th, or other chord tones?

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A day later, I want to come back to this because I don't think that in responding to this yesterday I expressly conveyed the specific point I wanted to make in response to your exact question.

I did describe one way I'd play the main G- and D-chord melodies with only ore or two fretting fingers. But I should have clearly said my approach had nothing to with intentionally including root, 3rd, 5th or other chord tones. Or intentionally or consciously playing chords at all. I wasn't playing chords. I was playing a moving MELODY with no regard for the place of the other roll notes in the implied chords that resulted. If I was thinking about a chord at all, it was that the open 5th and 1st were part of the underlying G chord against which the melody was descending so I could safely play them with nothing clashing.

That is: On measures 1-4, where I think the literal chord is G the whole time, I'm making absolutely no effort to play the B-minor or E-minor triads you've called out. As I said: my descending melody on the 2nd string against the open 5th and 1st implies the sound of the other chords, but I'm not even after that. I believe the descending melody works not because it creates the effect of those other chords but because it works. Period.  Or maybe it works because it's following SCALE or KEY notes, which are almost always safe.

My melody against the D or D7 chord takes two fingers because that sounded better to me. I suppose if I went up to the A at 10th fret of 2nd string I could have played four measures of the D7 descending melody using one finger on the 2nd string. Didn't occur to me.

My larger point is: Chords are important. But we don't always have to play chords.

Bill Emerson, in what I assume is the original banjo solo for this tune, is not playing chords. As far as I can tell he's almost never fretting even two notes.

Also, does Don Stover's  "Black Diamond" (1972) copy "Spanish Grass" (1970)?

Don,
Played a very nice style of Scruggs banjo and he was quite good....Jack

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

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Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjo

...you mentioned only needing to fret 1 or maybe 2 notes for any given chord shape. Which combination would you recommend with the root, the 3rd, and the 5th, or other chord tones?

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I was playing a moving MELODY with no regard for the place of the other roll notes in the implied chords that resulted. If I was thinking about a chord at all, it was that the open 5th and 1st were part of the underlying G chord against which the melody was descending so I could safely play them with nothing clashing.

That is: On measures 1-4, where I think the literal chord is G the whole time, I'm making absolutely no effort to play the B-minor or E-minor triads you've called out. As I said: my descending melody on the 2nd string against the open 5th and 1st implies the sound of the other chords, but I'm not even after that. I believe the descending melody works not because it creates the effect of those other chords but because it works. Period.  Or maybe it works because it's following SCALE or KEY notes, which are almost always safe.

My larger point is: Chords are important. But we don't always have to play chords.

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Yes I think I understand what you're describing. Playing the second string from G 2(8) down in pitch while droning the first and fifth strings, which are both higher in pitch, is essentially what I'm doing at the fourth string G 4(17) on down. I'm not making those minor chords in my arrangement either and whatever notes I do fret are diatonic and drone tone in nature. The main thing is the bass note movement (which is what I mean when I say melody) which is what our ears latch on to. I played backup on Spanish Grass tonight at my jam with my arrangement, sticking to mainly G C and D chords in a I-IV-I-V-I kind of progression, or playing my solo quietly, and although I didn't feel confident to take the solo, it sounded good, which I think is the most important point to make. 

quote:

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Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjo
Yes I think I understand what you're describing. Playing the second string from G 2(8) down in pitch while droning the first and fifth strings, which are both higher in pitch, is essentially what I'm doing at the fourth string G 4(17) on down.

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G at 8th fret 2nd string is higher in pitch than open 1st string D. That D is equivalent to 2nd string 3rd fret. The first four measures of descending melody on 2nd string end at that D.

Minor correction ;)

I've kinda sorta read this thread over a day or so and am still a little unsure what is being asked. All I can do is share from my experience with this tune.

I learned this in 1978 or 79 from Dan X. Padgett, who as far as I know is still teaching banjo up in Ellenboro NC. Anyway, here are the chords I learned this tune to be, and in picking it over decades, this has always been what others play as chord backup as well. As stated above, the underlying chords are simple, and the melody walks a line down on top of that.

Spanish Grass

G / / / | / / / / | / / / / | D / / /

D / / / | / / / / | / / / / G / / /

G / / / | / / / / | / / G7 / | C / / /

C / / / | G / E / | A / D / | G / / /

As you can see I'm adding in a I-VI-II-V-I progression (turnaround) at the end.

In my mind and approach to the tune, it's really that simple.

Occasionally at a jam here or there other support instruments may mimic the walkdown, but that's a rare exception. I have plenty of recordings of this tune over the years at gigs and jam sessions and whatnot and you can ear that the above progression at its core is what anchors the tune. I was going to post one of my examples (there are quite a few videos and MP3s of this tune I've posted here, they're here on BHO if anyone wants to take a listen) but instead, I stumbled across this wonderful video from two little old ladies playing this tune 16 years ago. They're playing the same progression as I learned it to be...

youtu.be/aULZEnGKHpQ

Because of this thread I did go out and listen to other versions, the originals and several takes from all sorts of known and unknown pickers, and to be honest this is the first time I had really heard support backup lines trying to mimic the melody or follow as though that's the way it's supposed to be. Even in those pro recordings, that motion stops in the backup after the first few bars and reverts to the basic chord as the melody rolls on... To my ear, it still holds true that the underlying chord progression is simple, and anything added by backup musicians is frill and ornamentation that can be there or not. In other words, that walkdown is essential to the tune's melody, while it being absent from the backup, makes no difference to the spirit of the tune.

It's a wonderful tune to pick no matter how you approach it, I've always found that folks picking and listening always have a positive response to it. It's one of those catchy tunes that just grabs you from the first few notes.

Oh well now that I've unleashed the google gods upon myself, now I'm getting all sorts of "Spanish Grass" recommendations on YouTube. Here is one more video from common folks like us, and you can read the guitar picker's hands for the chord progression:

youtube.com/watch?v=EuUWsnYM4Ts

quote:

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Originally posted by banjoy

I've kinda sorta read this thread over a day or so and am still a little unsure what is being asked. All I can do is share from my experience with this tune.

I learned this in 1978 or 79 from Dan X. Padgett, who as far as I know is still teaching banjo up in Ellenboro NC. Anyway, here are the chords I learned this tune to be, and in picking it over decades, this has always been what others play as chord backup as well. As stated above, the underlying chords are simple, and the melody walks a line down on top of that.

Spanish Grass

G / / / | / / / / | / / / / | D / / /

D / / / | / / / / | / / / / G / / /

G / / / | / / / / | / / G7 / | C / / /

C / / / | G / E / | A / D / | G / / /

As you can see I'm adding in a I-VI-II-V-I progression (turnaround) at the end.

In my mind and approach to the tune, it's really that simple.

Occasionally at a jam here or there other support instruments may mimic the walkdown, but that's a rare exception. I have plenty of recordings of this tune over the years at gigs and jam sessions and whatnot and you can ear that the above progression at its core is what anchors the tune. I was going to post one of my examples (there are quite a few videos and MP3s of this tune I've posted here, they're here on BHO if anyone wants to take a listen) but instead, I stumbled across this wonderful video from two little old ladies playing this tune 16 years ago. They're playing the same progression as I learned it to be...

youtu.be/aULZEnGKHpQ

Because of this thread I did go out and listen to other versions, the originals and several takes from all sorts of known and unknown pickers, and to be honest this is the first time I had really heard support backup lines trying to mimic the melody or follow as though that's the way it's supposed to be. Even in those pro recordings, that motion stops in the backup after the first few bars and reverts to the basic chord as the melody rolls on... To my ear, it still holds true that the underlying chord progression is simple, and anything added by backup musicians is frill and ornamentation that can be there or not. In other words, that walkdown is essential to the tune's melody, while it being absent from the backup, makes no difference to the spirit of the tune.

It's a wonderful tune to pick no matter how you approach it, I've always found that folks picking and listening always have a positive response to it. It's one of those catchy tunes that just grabs you from the first few notes.

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Thanks yes it does seem like it's in a more fiddle tune format AABB. Part A sounds like it repeats itself twice but part B sounds like it's doing 2 different things in the recording by Bill Emerson and Cliff Waldron:

Part Ax2 = | G / / / | G / / / | G / / / | D / / / | D / / / | D / / / | D / / / | G / / / |

Part B, the last of 2 parts sound like | G / / / | G / / / | G / / / | C / / / | C / / / | G / E / | A / D / | G / / / |.... but I can't make sense of the first part. Perhaps it's mirroring part A only with C in place of D chords? 

I say again there’s only three chords GC and D Listen to the mandolin player do his job playing those chords on the second and fourth of the beat through the whole song, focus only on him. other versions of the song will have those extra chords in it, but not the Emerson