I’ve done this when I studied classical guitar, especially for tremolo. But I’m thinking that on the banjo there’d be a click sound as one plants with a pick on the string that’s often still vibrating. However, if it improves your playing, Gordon, all’s well that ends well.

I started like doneill suggested - pick a string and immediately lay the next finger (or the thumb) against the following string. And then repeat There's no need to actually pick/pluck - just rest the fingerpick on the string. The idea is to arrive in position just before the metronome clicks.

What I found was that with some sequences it was easy but with others I had movement faults that I wasn't hardly aware of. Like on a TIMIT roll, if the last T was on the middle G string, my thumb was arriving late - which ironically was causing me to actually play the note slightly early. Going backwards from M to 1, (also playing the G ) was another one.
Putting the metronome really slow so only 1 beat per note and being conscious that the finger/thumb is resting on the string, ready to play prior to the click is, I think, the place to start.

quote:

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Originally posted by nodster

I started like doneill suggested - pick a string and immediately lay the next finger (or the thumb) against the following string. And then repeat There's no need to actually pick/pluck - just rest the fingerpick on the string. The idea is to arrive in position just before the metronome clicks.

What I found was that with some sequences it was easy but with others I had movement faults that I wasn't hardly aware of. Like on a TIMIT roll, if the last T was on the middle G string, my thumb was arriving late - which ironically was causing me to actually play the note slightly early. Going backwards from M to 1, (also playing the G ) was another one.
Putting the metronome really slow so only 1 beat per note and being conscious that the finger/thumb is resting on the string, ready to play prior to the click is, I think, the place to start.

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Why reinvent the wheel when there are dozens of old banjo tutor books that teach the same thing?

It’s not called planting. It’s a rest stroke, as opposed to a free stroke. There is a subtle tonal difference between the two.

The thing is, a rest stroke has the picking/plucking finger coming to rest against the adjacent string instead of following through mid-air.

quote: ". . . I had to go all the way down to 40 bpm."

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@nodster

@doneill

My username on some music forums is 40bpm (and previously on this site), so you can guess where I stand on this. I start every day at 40bpm because I think my brain takes things more seriously when I do them slowly with great intent. I imagine my brain strengthening neural nets associated with the basic moves. I don't linger too long, but in my mind, my mind feeds on the positive reinforcement, building a stronger foundation each day.

I like the entire idea of making the next move simultaneously with the current note/string. I do this for my left hand when the fingering of a passage is tricky. Nothing like discovering your hand/finger is already ready.

Three factors determining your picking sound:
Angle, force and speed.
By sacrifying the latter (by the decribed stop and go motion), you'll be sacrifying some of your sound. The slower your picking, the more squeak and other unwanted noises.
A no go, IMO....

But the 'resting' is not an actual full on picking motion that you're ever going play tunes with. It's just a practice drill/exercise to isolate mistakes, improve control, and develop accuracy.

In real life when you play, the 'resting' finger isn't actually going to rest. But hopefully it's going to learn to be in the right place in good time to pick the next note.

I suppose an analogy would be one of those drills/exercises that golfers like Justin Rose do. The exercise itself looks nothing like a real golf swing but practicing the exercise motion helps the golfer to get in the right position or positions when they do actually hit the ball.

Anyway, I just threw it out there for anyone to try out. Personally, I like it a lot. That's all I can say.

You'll perform as you practice.

When training a stop, that's what you'll play at full speed too.

While maybe effective in classical guitar, I would strongly advice against it for banjo.

Nothing against practicing in slow motion, on the contrary. But don't practice hesitations where they're not supposed to be.

To be fair, it’s not really a hesitation because the next finger that picks moves to the string as the other finger or thumb picks a string,, then the finger is already positioned against the string it is about to pick/pluck. It’s a fine timing thing.

Chuck,
Chet Atkins used this technique on several of his legato tunes. He wanted more expression and sustain in certain passages....Jack

When playing fingerstyle guitar I assign each finger to a specific string and plant my pinkie (although I do sometimes use the pinkie on the high string). The thumb covers the territory of the bottom 3 strings (Think: Travis Picking). With this in mind the appropriate fingers are naturally most always on or close to the next string played depending upon the sustain or damping desired.

On banjo I still generally like to assign a finger to a specific string when my hand is at rest, but with all the possibilities of the various rolls and double picking of a given string the thumb and fingers can be all over the fretboard playing any string so I find it relatively futile try to rest a finger with a metal pick on a vibrating metal string. Bear in mind that the 5 string banjo has four main strings that you are playing with three fingers so a finger is always close the desired string.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pick-A-Lick

....I find it relatively futile try to rest a finger with a metal pick on a vibrating metal string.

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I think you have a misconception of how the exercise works. Unless you practice on a single string there should be no vibration. 

1) Pick a string with either T 1 or M.

2) At the same time, or as near as you can get it, drop another picking digit on to the next target string.

3) Stop and do it again. 

4) When those two digits get comfortable working together on that sequence of strings, try them on some different strings and then try reversing the digit order. So if it was T,1 or m,1, try 1,T or 1,m. The idea is over time to eventually work through all combinations of digits. But each individual pairing gets repeated  multiple times until the second digit is dropping into place completely relaxed and perfectly in place.

5) If you use a slow metronome  the goal is to get the dropped finger/thumb to arrive just ahead of the beat. That way the pick is in place to pressure the string and release it exactly on the beat.

3) The exercise is best done slowly and with full awareness and control. It can be speeded up incrementally but not at the expense of relaxation or control. An increase in picking speed will come naturally as a by-product of enhanced relaxation and accuracy

A couple of points. I'm using the word 'drop' rather than 'place' because if there's any tension in the 'planting' finger - be aware of it and erase it. It should be totally relaxed. 

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

G

quote:

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Originally posted by Gordon_Mac

quote:

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Originally posted by Pick-A-Lick

....I find it relatively futile try to rest a finger with a metal pick on a vibrating metal string.

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I think you have a misconception of how the exercise works. Unless you practice on a single string there should be no vibration. 

1) Pick a string with either T 1 or M.

2) At the same time, or as near as you can get it, drop another picking digit on to the next target string.

3) Stop and do it again. 

4) When those two digits get comfortable working together on that sequence of strings, try them on some different strings and then try reversing the digit order. So if it was T,1 or m,1, try 1,T or 1,m. The idea is over time to eventually work through all combinations of digits. But each individual pairing gets repeated  multiple times until the second digit is dropping into place completely relaxed and perfectly in place.

5) If you use a slow metronome  the goal is to get the dropped finger/thumb to arrive just ahead of the beat. That way the pick is in place to pressure the string and release it exactly on the beat.

3) The exercise is best done slowly and with full awareness and control. It can be speeded up incrementally but not at the expense of relaxation or control. An increase in picking speed will come naturally as a by-product of enhanced relaxation and accuracy

A couple of points. I'm using the word 'drop' rather than 'place' because if there's any tension in the 'planting' finger - be aware of it and erase it. It should be totally relaxed. 

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

G

 

 

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As proof of concept, we'd like to see and hear what it did for your picking.

Awaiting your video.

quote:

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Originally posted by RB-1

quote:

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Originally posted by Gordon_Mac

quote:

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Originally posted by Pick-A-Lick

....I find it relatively futile try to rest a finger with a metal pick on a vibrating metal string.

---

I think you have a misconception of how the exercise works. Unless you practice on a single string there should be no vibration. 

1) Pick a string with either T 1 or M.

2) At the same time, or as near as you can get it, drop another picking digit on to the next target string.

3) Stop and do it again. 

4) When those two digits get comfortable working together on that sequence of strings, try them on some different strings and then try reversing the digit order. So if it was T,1 or m,1, try 1,T or 1,m. The idea is over time to eventually work through all combinations of digits. But each individual pairing gets repeated  multiple times until the second digit is dropping into place completely relaxed and perfectly in place.

5) If you use a slow metronome  the goal is to get the dropped finger/thumb to arrive just ahead of the beat. That way the pick is in place to pressure the string and release it exactly on the beat.

3) The exercise is best done slowly and with full awareness and control. It can be speeded up incrementally but not at the expense of relaxation or control. An increase in picking speed will come naturally as a by-product of enhanced relaxation and accuracy

A couple of points. I'm using the word 'drop' rather than 'place' because if there's any tension in the 'planting' finger - be aware of it and erase it. It should be totally relaxed. 

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

G

 

 

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As proof of concept, we'd like to see and hear what it did for your picking.

Awaiting your video.

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Are you always this aggressive for no reason? You don't like the idea - fine. That's up to you.

Look, I'm a pretty indifferent and very rusty 70 year old player who found something in an 18 year old thread that I liked, and it's helped me so I thought I'd share it.. But other than throwing  it out here for anyone who feels inclined to give it a go if they want to I couldn't care less either way. 

Obviously if someone gives the drill a go and it helps them, then that's to the good. If they try it and it's a wash for them then they'll chuck it.

Jeez...its not a big deal. And no, 10 days of practicing an exercise isn't going to provide 'proof of concept' (whatever that is) especially when there's no starting point to measure against.

Have you nothing better to do with your time?