1. 3 currently 
2. No.. but thinking I should
3. Yes, but have no idea if this is a good approach.
4. That it sounds how I want it to sound. Generally I have a bpm goal in mind.

quote:

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Originally posted by jwwallace

1. When learning new songs, how many are you actively learning at the same time?
2. Do you completely memorize every song?
3. If intending to sing along with a song, do you get the playing down completely then start singing?
4. When do you consider a song "learned"?

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1. I most often learn tunes on the fly at jams and

2. finally get them memorized after a few jams

3. I try and get the words memorized first before I finalize how I'm going to finally play along with it.

4. see 3.

quote:

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Originally posted by jwwallace

1. When learning new songs, how many are you actively learning at the same time?
2. Do you completely memorize every song?
3. If intending to sing along with a song, do you get the playing down completely then start singing?
4. When do you consider a song "learned"?

---

Great questions. I heard somebody  somewhere (maybe Dwight Diller??) saying really learning tunes is maybe one per year......

I'd be the same as Carl, except to add that lyrics and singing can often help learning the rhythmic feel of a tune. Even if you never intend singing it in a public setting.

Vocalising the melody, even if there aren't lyrics, can also help with learning by ear at a session or from a recording.

Have fun!

I learn songs versus tunes differently, but to address songs:

1) not more than two, usually one

2) Yes completely IF i might end up with an audience besides myself.

3) I work on both together. By the time I have the playing down, I usually have the words memorized.

4)....when I can pick up the banjo cold and nail it perfectly ( for me ) and thereafter. banjered

1. Depends on the reason, currently having to learn a setlist of nearly twenty songs in order to play along with a new society i've joined. Some of the songs are played trad, others are variations. it also depends on the competency of those you're playing with, how anal they might want to be about keeping things trad or how fast they want to play.
2. Having moved from guitar to banjo very recently, I maintained the benefit of the music theory and application behind the songs so rather than learn songs complete, I memorise the key, critical melodies, tempo and arrangements/song structure over everything else. I'm a s*** singer-always have been so I don't waste my time trying to memorise all of the lyrics-just how many verses, choruses etc. that there are. I might sometimes join in on a vocal harmony I can get away with but as for learning songs in their totality-unless you're aiming to be a solo performer, you'll probably only learn around twenty songs or more entirely that you can play by yourself before you need to rely on others to remind you of how a riff went or what the chords are. Thats what rehearsals are all about!
3.Yep, when I did used to sing I would learn the song as best as I could so that could play stood up without looking down at all at my guitar and then learned the lyrics. I dont think it matter s o much these days as I often see people with iPads and lyric sheets at jams and at gigs. At the end of the day if its a means to an end then and don't get in anyones way, do what suits you and what sounds and entertains best.
4. The hardest question of all! There no true answer to this as thirty years down the line I'm still learning (especially as I've only just taken up banjo!). On your music journey, as long as you're still playing, you're still learning. As you learn new techniques and methods to play a song without taking as much out of you each time: i.e. better chord voicing, different fingering, alternative roll pattern, more efficient strumming method you will find playing and making a song sound better-easier. I always used to question myself and my band, are we gig ready? Are the songs good enough to be played live at a gig? That was always my acid-test as to whether a song was learned. Would someone pay to hear my songs, my band, our music. I hope this helps and good luck on your journey!

quote:

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Originally posted by Andyrhydycreuau

Vocalising the melody, even if there aren't lyrics, can also help with learning by ear at a session or from a recording.

Have fun!

---

I just want to emphasize how helpful this can be. Funny enough, learning Morse Code many years ago, an old HAM told me that he thinks of some words, common words mostly; as songs. He would sing the dots and dashes. Your statement about vocalizing the melody reminded me of that guy, and how he would memorize vocalizations. 

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwwallace

1. When learning new songs, how many are you actively learning at the same time?
2. Do you completely memorize every song?
3. If intending to sing along with a song, do you get the playing down completely then start singing?
4. When do you consider a song "learned"?

---

Firstly, I like your playing on you are my sunshine; I like the simplicity of it (and that's not meant in a bad way). Nice sounding banjo, too.

1 my brain, other limitations too, means it's one song - ie someone's tab/version of a song - at a time. I tried two at once and it was a chore - I did it but it wasn't the way for me. 

2 I try and memorize the tab entirely. Some say tab isn't the best way, but I like it. I sometimes get sick of going over the same songs but it's also nice to just pick up the banjo and play. Just learning Colorado Monsoon Jack Beuthin. It's the longest piece I've tried to learn and it's taken a good few weeks. I'm getting there but I don't think I'll be attempting anything this long in the foreseeable future. 

3 I don't sing, got no intention of trying at present. It's enough for me to learn a song - a version of a song - and play it instrumentally. Others may say, you need to sing the words but I'm not bothered - it's just me and my banjo.

4 Even a "learned" song - one I've played numerous times, can, for me, produce the occasional blip and I've got to get it correct again. 

A bit about me: got two banjos, one standard g tuning and one tuned fdgcd. Started off Scruggs style - still play the songs I've learned that way - and mainly two finger thumb lead now. I briefly tried clawhammer, may attempt it again or may not.

All the best

Great post
For me;
1 One at a time from scratch but always improving/ adding/trying new bits to all that I know.

2 Yes, but if I don't play it for a while have to refresh by looking at tab/listening to the version I play it after.

3 If I don't do both at once, for some reason unknown, I can't get the singing in and have to simply play it as a tune forevermore.

4 I suppose when I can play it through without mistakes or having to look at tab. Then the fun begins in making it my own version.

quote:

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Originally posted by Andyrhydycreuau

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwwallace

1. When learning new songs, how many are you actively learning at the same time?
2. Do you completely memorize every song?
3. If intending to sing along with a song, do you get the playing down completely then start singing?
4. When do you consider a song "learned"?

---

Great questions. I heard somebody  somewhere (maybe Dwight Diller??) saying really learning tunes is maybe one per year......

I'd be the same as Carl, except to add that lyrics and singing can often help learning the rhythmic feel of a tune. Even if you never intend singing it in a public setting.

Vocalising the melody, even if there aren't lyrics, can also help with learning by ear at a session or from a recording.

Have fun!

---

That was Dwight that had said he asked his students to learn no more than 4 tunes per year for the first few years. The idea is basically it's better to know a few songs inside and out than 100 of them peripherally. He also recommended listening to them until they were internalized before attempting to play them. Essentially the opposite of how I was taught violin (which focused really on sheet music).

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwwallace

1. When learning new songs, how many are you actively learning at the same time?
2. Do you completely memorize every song?
3. If intending to sing along with a song, do you get the playing down completely then start singing?
4. When do you consider a song "learned"?

---

Okay, this is lengthy, so settle in.

(Note that I play way more guitar than banjo.)

Of course, the answer to each question is "It depends." I have no definitive answer to any of the questions. However:

1. I am always working on something, but it may be refining what I already "know". * I do tend to restrict myself to one "new" song, but there can be exceptions to that rule, too. I'm often going over what's on my "memorized" list. They do need refreshing.

2. I try to know the whole song by memory. See my definition of "know"* below.

3. I try to have a good grasp of what I'm doing for accompaniment. That can change and be refined, and maybe elaborated on, as I combine vocals with instrumentals. It's easier (for me) to sing when I'm not unsure of the accompaniment.

4. For me, I've "learned" the song when I can sing and play without mistakes and without visual aids. The Toronto based singer and member of the Friends of Fiddler's Green, Ian Robb, once wrote:

"... the use of a cheat sheet - either a piece of paper on a music stand or, more recently, an iPad attached to the mic stand - is not an uncommon sight at concerts and festivals. And nobody seems to be complaining. Perhaps we're too polite. I recently watched a young singer perform a set of songs, some of which were the singer's own songs, constantly glancing at the iPad cleverly but obviously attached to the mic stand. This singer actually introduced one song with the unintentionally ironic words, 'I only learned this a couple of days ago.' I had to stop myself from guffawing in the audience. I should say here that, as a senior citizen, I know only too well how hard it can be to remember songs, particularly those learned most recently. But while advancing age is a valid excuse for an onstage memory lapse, it's still a sorry excuse for reading your songs in performance.

"Song lyrics are inevitably organic, constantly changing creations, if they're appealing enough to pass from singer to singer. It's all part of the reshaping and polishing commonly known as the folk process. Leaving a song on paper as you take it into performance doesn't do it any favours, and actually prevents you from making it your own. Incidentally, it has been my experience that song reading also prevents singers from developing the sequential cues that guide singers from line to line and verse to verse. These cuse are essential to thelearning process. So, the singer who says to me, as many have, 'I have to read because I just can't seem to learn songs,' probably has it backwards.

"I'm pretty sure that, in many cases, the reader/singer does actually know the words quite well but is afraid of forgetting them in mid-performance. Unfortunately, if the cheat sheet is there, it's almost impossible not to be handcuffed to it throughout the song, and, consequently, although the words may come out unsullied by human error, the song performance will be hobbled by distraction.

"No matter how credibly you think you're conveying emotion or empathy in a song, if your audience sees you referring to the page to see what comes next, you'll look like a fake. So, please, people, take a chance. There are worse things that can happen onstage than forgetting the words. Go for it. Your songs are worth the risk, and an occasional train wreck might just show that a human heart is beating behind that microphone."

* I have a couple of definitions of "know". One is the usual: when people hear a song, the reaction could be, "Oh, I know that song!" But they don't know it, they just recognize it. They may know the beginning, maybe the chorus, but not the whole song all the way through. When I "know" a song, it means I can sing and play it completely (even better if I can take liberties with it) without visual aids.

1) — Usually one.
2) — No
3)— No
4) — Never, really, but I consider it learned when I can play it with others, all the way through without hesitation.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwwallace

1. When learning new songs, how many are you actively learning at the same time?
2. Do you completely memorize every song?
3. If intending to sing along with a song, do you get the playing down completely then start singing?
4. When do you consider a song "learned"?

---

1. I dunno? A couple? 

2. I wouldn't call it that

3. Not really. To the point, I sang Just a Closer Walk with Thee for the 1st time last tues. I wung it on the chords. IOW I waited for my hands to change chords automatically. I've never done this before, but it was an easy song.

4. To me, song and tunes are like stories. If you haven't told it for awhile, you sometimes have to think a bit how it goes. Savvy? There's really only three chords and you can hear if there needs to be a minor chords somewhere. Sometimes a 2 chords song throws you because you get used to three chords.