I figured this would be a good time to bring this up, as there are some motivational threads going.
Years ago, I was in a jam group, all playing guitars. We were on the verge of getting some gigs. Long story sort, I was handed a banjo, and was nominated the banjo player. With no clue and no instruction, I did what I had learned from guitar. As a beginning guitar player years earlier, we strummed the chords and sang the songs, and had a blast. All the complicated stuff came later. So I used the same stratigy on banjo. I settled into a finger pattern (roll), got the chords (mostly easy bar chords) and played the songs my friends were playing. No slides, no hammer-ons, no pull-offs, no bends, no double stops, no melody notes, no leads (breaks). Just a steady roll, getting the chords, keeping the rhythm, and having a blast, literally minutes into touching a banjo for the first time. It sounded good enough to be thrown into the fire as the banjo player at our first gig, just 6 weeks later. I’ve been at it ever since, and all the complicated stuff has come with time.
I guess my point is that it doesn’t have to be complicated and frustrating. I came to find out, that what I started off doing, is called rolling backup. It doesn’t take long to learn several simple chord forms, and how to make them minor or 7ths. You now have the tools to play along with hundreds of songs. Either singing them as you roll along, playing with friends, or playing along to backing tracks or recordings. You start having fun right away, and the complicated stuff will come in its own time.
My friends had asked me to learn 20 songs, good enough, to just add the sound of the banjo into the mix. Nothing fancy, no spotlight, no hot stuff. I had 6 weeks to do it, and pulled it off. And it was easy and fun, and the experience was so positive and motivating, that it set the tone for my playing, and the fire is still burning many years later. By comparison, had they asked me to learn FMB or dueling banjos, note for note, so that we could dazzle the folks by sounding like the record, it would have been impossible. I would have been under extreme pressure, nervous as hell, and it would have been a train wreck. I probably would have tried, but gave up, and the banjo would still be in the closet.
My advice to anyone feeling overwhelmed by complicated stuff, is to keep it simple. Like strumming a guitar and singing a song. Just roll along to your favorite songs, and have fun. Which begs the question that’s the title of this thread.
Edited by - Dean T on 08/11/2026 17:24:14
"You start having fun right away"
That's true. But it is fun the way you define fun -- strumming along and singing.
Others are grabbed by the sound of the banjo as it sounds in Foggy Mountain Breakdown, and that's where they want to go. Awakened to the banjo like Saul on the road to Damascus. 
That drive takes them through the learning process. Strumming and singing are not on the path to the goal.
There's room for all.
Can't argue against you Dean.
45 years, I'm still rolling away.
Sure, you pickup the hammer-on and pull-off, and bend and slide, etc.
But that's gradually added within the context of a song.
If you want to try to be Bill Keith, go for it!
Chances are I'm getting paid as much as 'Banjer Picker XYZ', Haha!
There is nothing wrong with rolling backup, in my opinion, although you should consider also adding vamping to your repertoire. Vamping forces you to learn chord positions and inversions, and if you are really daring you could even try learning passing chords. If you are content with rolling backup and vamping, more power to you. But if somebody wants to get into the more complicated stuff, go for it! Different strokes (or whatever) for different folks.
quote:
Originally posted by corcoranThere is nothing wrong with rolling backup, in my opinion, although you should consider also adding vamping to your repertoire. Vamping forces you to learn chord positions and inversions, and if you are really daring you could even try learning passing chords. If you are content with rolling backup and vamping, more power to you. But if somebody wants to get into the more complicated stuff, go for it! Different strokes (or whatever) for different folks.
Maybe I didn't explain it too well, but this was just my beginning. All the complex stuff that beginners can find complicated, even to the point of quitting, all came in due time. I read here all the time, about struggling beginners looking for motivation, and I have to wonder if it's a case of too complicated, too soon.
Edited by - Dean T on 08/11/2026 19:22:53
That’s certainly the way to start jamming. No solos, breaks, or melody; nothing fancy. Just chords and a simple right hand pattern (vamping or rolling) over those chords, changing chords in time and maintaining the correct rhythm. Start small. Play softly. Backup only (and perhaps stay in the background). You won’t crash and burn if you fly at a very low altitude. But, even at this level, you’ll find that you’re contributing to the overall group sound. That can be very satisfying.
At the same time, outside the jam, it's important to keep expanding your skill set so that -- very gradually -- you can increase your jam participation. But don't rush it. Take it one step at a time, and don't progress to the next step until you're 100% comfortable where you are.
Many people pick up the banjo to sound like their favourite hot pro players, not realizing the long road of practice it takes to even get close. They’re not satisfied with simpler material or staying in the background. I was one of them - after getting the Pete Seeger book with Mike’s TAB for FMB in it I decided to climb that Mount Everest, thinking my rudimentary fingerpicking guitar skills would see me through. I butchered FMB with poor tone, wobbly rhythm, and bad timing by leaving out beats here and there. A couple years later, after licking my wounds and having relegated the banjo to my bedroom closet, I once again took a stab at it and retreated to the easier arrangements in the Pete Wernick “Bluegrass Banjo” book.
Edited by - chuckv97 on 08/11/2026 20:34:11
Can anyone recommend a simple song so my friend (a fairly good guitar player) and I (a couple of years into my banjo journey) can try and play together, and an easy-ish pattern I could use?
This is how I got started playing too. For almost the first decade I just played roll patterns and sang songs to make music with myself and others.
It wasn't until I started listening to a lot of bluegrass that I realized that what I was doing didn't really have that sound. At that point I started learning Earl's stuff.
While my previous playing probably helped my dexterity and knowledge of chords, I don't think it helped very much with the bluegrass repertoire. That is a very specific language and I found it difficult even after years of playing my way.
I wholeheartedly agree with this thread topic. I just crossed over my 1 year mark of playing. Almost all beginner material barely, if ever, mentions backup let alone how to do it. A few months ago I realized I didn't know what to do once I wasn't playing the break I had been practicing so hard to get right. I found a few good resources and really drilled on the 3 chord shapes and transitioning to all of them up and down the neck in most keys, and realized I had learned more about the banjo by learning backup chord playing than I did grinding out really cool breaks to songs. In hindsight I wish I learned it sooner. Campfire strummers are super fun to sing along with, and playing any 4 chord pop song is at arms reach.
I think the answer to the question is pretty simple: most people who take up the banjo do so because they're attracted to the sound of the lead breaks, not the backup. Most of the books and learning methods teach lead breaks instead of backup.
In other words, backup is de-emphasized - if it's recognized at all. IMO, that's not a good thing.
I was at least two years into my own banjo journey before I really started to get a grasp on backup, its importance, and developed an understanding that the techniques involved in playing backup that actually contributes to the overall song are every bit as important as learning the breaks.
That recognition informs the way I teach today. I've never had a new student come in and say "I really need/want to play backup." That's not what brought them in. But you may rest assured that I start introducing it toot sweet, and in any given lesson at least 30% of the time is spent focusing on it. In some lessons, with some students, as much as 70% of the time will be focused on it.
My students are mostly beginners or low-to-mid intermediate players. I introduce the concept by taking them through the map of a more-or-less standard bluegrass song:
1) Kick (instrumental)
2) First verse (vocal)
3) Chorus (vocal)
4) First break (instrumental)
5) Second verse (vocal)
6) Second chorus (vocal)
7) Second break (instrumental)
8) Third verse or repeat of chorus (vocal)
9) Close and tag (instrumental)
I then point out two important things: First, the soloist - be it singers or one of the instruments - needs to be the focus of attention, and if we're sonically competing with them, they can't be. In fact, our job is to support the soloist in such a way that they sound better than they actually are.
And second, I point out that in that map, we'll be playing leads maybe 20% of the time. So we need to think backup and support for the soloist or singer.
Edited by - eagleisland on 08/12/2026 06:55:02
quote:
Originally posted by GSCan anyone recommend a simple song so my friend (a fairly good guitar player) and I (a couple of years into my banjo journey) can try and play together, and an easy-ish pattern I could use?
At a recent jam another fellow mentioned that most of Hank Williams's stuff is pretty basic / straightforward. [It's over my head, so I'm taking his word for it.]
quote:
Originally posted by Owenquote:
Originally posted by GSCan anyone recommend a simple song so my friend (a fairly good guitar player) and I (a couple of years into my banjo journey) can try and play together, and an easy-ish pattern I could use?
At a recent jam another fellow mentioned that most of Hank Williams's stuff is pretty basic / straightforward. [It's over my head, so I'm taking his word for it.]
I was thinking along the lines of Hank Williams, not that my friend is too keen on him but, hey-ho, I like him. My query would relate to which patterns are particularly best over which particular chords. And then there's bars with a couple of chords in them which will probably complicate matters for me.
I can't imagine it being over your head - you seem to know your stuff.
^^^^^ try “Jambalaya”,,, it’s a 2-chord song - G and D7. Use 3-2-5-1 (eighth notes) , then 3 for a quarter note, then pinch 5-1 for another quarter note. Use this patttern for each measure for the whole song.
What'll they think of next .... mixing 1/4 and 1/8 notes?!?!? Like I said.... over my head. 
======================================================================================================
[Thanks, Chuck... I try to "figure it out."* .... though I can see getting the words in synch with the music could be a "challenge." ]
* maybe later today ... my present challenge is re-staining the deck. 
Something I picked up from Eddie Collins: vamp (including more embellished vamping patterns) behind an instrumental break; roll behind a vocalist. I presume this is more a preference than a rule, but that was how he generally did it.
quote:
Originally posted by Rich WeillSomething I picked up from Eddie Collins: vamp (including more embellished vamping patterns) behind an instrumental break; roll behind a vocalist. I presume this is more a preference than a rule, but that was how he generally did it.
I think that depends heavily on what instrument is soloing.
Rolling behind a fiddle is a match made in heaven.
Rolling behind a mandolin CAN be done, but must be done cautiously
Rolling behind a guitar is rude, because you'll drown it out.
Rolling behind a dobro is how wars start.
Now, that's a bit of an exaggeration; there are no hard-and-fasts. However. Consider Jason Burleson of Blue Highway, who's rolling roughly 90% of the time regardless of what else is going on. But he's so smart in his note selection - almost exclusively ones and fives - that he never gets in the soloist's way. He's also brilliant at backing away from the mic to the extent that the banjo is subtle, and provides percussion more than anything else.
The art of backup is to make the singer/ the song sound good. So although rolling over chords is ok, to do it right involves a lot of listening, lots of fingerboard knowledge and the ability to improvise tastefully.
Edited by - Laurence Diehl on 08/12/2026 12:23:06
quote:
Originally posted by GSCan anyone recommend a simple song so my friend (a fairly good guitar player) and I (a couple of years into my banjo journey) can try and play together, and an easy-ish pattern I could use?
Long Journey Home! (Two dollar bill)
Pete Wernick has a whole page of 2 and three chord songs for just such an occasion.
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