I have often thought of this scenario - We are all aware that Gibson has a lifetime guarantee. So since Gibson is no longer producing banjos, what happens when the neck warps (a rare occurrence I'm sure, but it does happen) so badly it can't be easily corrected? What happens when the tailpiece should break? Or when a tension hoop or flange might fail? OK - I had heard some years ago that IF your tailpiece should break, and IF you were in fact the original purchaser and had your warranty paperwork in order to prove that, that Gibson would in fact send you another tailpiece, that is, UNTIL they ran out of that particular part. Then they would direct you to purchase another tailpiece from a third party (stewmac, Prucha, Boyd, FQMS, etc.) Submit proof of the purchase, and they might reimburse you. ?? But now since any leftover items and parts that might have been on hand when they stopped producing banjos is long gone, and Gibson is very reluctant or unable to replace any banjo parts, what avenue does someone have to force them to honor the warranty? Just curious.... inquiring minds want to know!
I always figured that a "lifetime guarantee" is actually only for the lifetime of the item itself.
... hire a good (?) lawyer??
Let me see now .... mucho dollaars to collect a much smaller claim .... on second thought ...???
One of my farmer neighbours used to offer that a guarantee is as good as the person making it.
It would be a good question to ask a lawyer.
I have a feeling, and I'm not a lawyer and not practicing law, that a lifetime guarantee is only good as long as the item is being produced. Thereafter, there would be no parts, no technicians, etc., to fix the problem. I could be wrong.
Well to ease your inquiring mind think less of a warranty on all these parts you mentioned and think of quality replacement. Call BanjoBen.com for parts and advice and Amazon.com for a quick inventory right at your fingertips.
I've tried to get broken Gibson parts replaced. We are S.O.L. basically. The infamous cracked Presto tailpiece is the leading example. Sorry Charlie, no go.
On the other hand, the pickguard flew apart, AND the tailpiece cracked at the bend on my 1988 Gibson F5-L mandolin. I sent the pieces to Gibson. They replaced or repaired ( the pickguard) at no charge and returned it promptly. No go on the tailpiece crack; I replaced that with an Asian repro and reused the original cover plate on it. So, mixed experience for mandolins.
A lawyer is going to cost more than replacing any part on a Gibson banjo, IMHO.
LIFEtime guarantee – yours or mine... banjered
Here's my thoughts about the so called "lifetime guarantee" that is available on some things (not just banjos) many years ago - JC Penney had an auto repair center at many (but not all) JC Penney locations around the country. They offered, back in the 70's and 80's if not mistaken, a "lifetime warranty vehicle battery." So naturally over that 15 or 20 year period many of those batteries were sold. Of course a battery will NOT last indefinitely. As the years passed those batteries started failing and going bad/wearing out. I think JC Penney had closed it's auto repair facilities by the late 80's or possibly into the early 90's But - According to the warranty, as long as you could show the battery was still in the vehicle that it was purchased for, AND you were the original owner of the battery, JC Penney would replace it at no charge. AFTER they closed the auto repair facilities, of course at some point soon there were NO MORE batteries! So what happened was, eventually enough people got on board with a class action suit. JC Penney was in fact ordered to replace their now no longer in existence batteries with something that was available elsewhere, and pay the customer for the replacement. If not mistaken, that was a "one time replacement." IF you still had the car 10 years later and the battery again needed to be replaced, YOU would pay the cost. But again, what I'm getting at is that a lifetime warranty to most folks means that the manufacturer will repair or replace the defective part or instrument at THEIR cost; again, IF you are/were in fact the original owner and purchaser. Oh well - quite a quandry for sure!!
What we casually call -- and casually interpret -- as a "lifetime guarantee " is better termed a "warranty" of specified qualities over a defined time period.
Typically, it is a warranty of freedom from defects in materials and workmanship for as long as the object remains in the possession of the initial buyer. It is not a promise to repair anything and everything that wears out or breaks.
So after 30 years, the tailpiece develops a crack at the bending point. Is this normal and expected wear, or is it a manufacturing defect? If the seller is still in business and promotes good customer relations, they send you a new tailpiece or pay for the replacement or repair, rather than enter a legal contest where one party has to prove that the tailpiece should or should not be expected to last that long, considering what kind of strings have been used on the banjo, how high the bridges were , how low the tailpiece has been set over time, etc.
Point is, can't bandy the casual label "lifetime guarantee " to mean cover anything that changes over time without regard to the specified limitations in the warranty.
Ain't no lawyer be taking up your case against Gibson for a cracked tailpiece on a contingency fee basis. Might take it for a healthy advance!
Do you have a registered receipt as proof of ownership? otherwise, call Gibson.
I had this argument with a department store in the UK over a pepper pot some years ago. Yes, I know....but it really annoyed me. In the UK at least a 'lifetime guarantee' is referring to the 'lifetime' of the product, which has got to be the ultimate get out clause. Although it was ameliorated by an assumption that 'lifetime' should be at least 8 years. No idea if this is still correct and clearly won't apply in the USA, but thought it worth posting for interest. The pepper pot was approaching its 11 or 12 birthday, btw.
I think the same scenario has came about with Recording King Banjos since they dissolved their office in the United States. Im not sure but the Stelling Banjos Warranty has gone out the window also. There was at one time posted on the Stelling site that they were going to post a list of places to take your Stelling for warranty work, but I haven't seen the list. And also in the future the same thing will come about when Steve Huber passes and Huber Banjos Mfg shuts down. We can be thankful that the Gibson banjo design has been copied by so many mfgs that we can find parts that are comparable to repair our banjos. Maybe we need a company created to sell an extended warranty on banjos after the original warranty expires. OK dont blame me for this idea when your phones start ringing continuously. LOL
So what we're really saying here, or the "conclusion" if you will, is a "lifetime warranty" isn't worth the paper it's written on. Which in reality makes it a PR thing, a feel good thing, which is useless! True enough - if the company wants to promote good customer relations, they will repair or replace the item or part in question. But I also feel that we increasingly live in a throw away society. Don't get me started......
I found Gibson's warranty to be good, and it worked for me on an F5L MANDOLIN, which IS still in production and they have parts.
So I think it's proper to say for a "good" company still in business and still making the product you bought, the warranty is probably valuable.
Oh, yes I know all this. The guarantee is worth something.... but not Gibson banjos.....
The thing is ,Banjos are like mountain bikes,or any other object made up of parts from many different makers,for example ,my mountain bike frame has a very long warranty with the maker,but the cranks are made by another company with typically 2 year warranty,some of the minor parts are 1 year,so all the components are not covered by an all encompassing “warranty”,which seems reasonable to me.
I wouldn’t expect the maker to endlessly replace other parts made by third parties.I take your point but thats the way it goes
Been a lot of hypotheticals in this discussion, and a lot of theorizing, and resulting grumpiness about the assumed possible outcomes. 
Can anyone post a real "lifetime guarantee" with the full wording and qualifications, so that we can be talking about the same actual existing thing?
It may not use the words "lifetime guarantee," but rather "lifetime warranty" or "limited lifetime warranty."
Once we can actually see what we're talking about, and what exactly is warranted, then can review the legal obligations of the seller if the seller goes out of business or the product is no longer made. This is certainly not new ground we're plowing here.
I'm not sure that anyone is grumpy over this train of thought. Perhaps frustrated would be a better word? Anyway, IF a product is in fact labeled "limited lifetime warranty," or wording very similar to that, most folks would believe that product is warranted to be free from defect for as long as the original purchaser owns the product. Of course when the manufacturer no longer exists, that throws a wrench into the works. I am sure there are some hangout members that are in fact lawyers - perhaps one or more of those folks would weigh in. NO obligation of course and an opinion would be only that!!
"most folks would believe"
More accurate information would be the words that come after "limited lifetime warranty." That's the important part. Exactly what does a particular "limited lifetime warranty" cover? That's where the maker has to be specific.
If the limited lifetime warranty specifies something like "defects in material and workmanship", then if the tailpiece breaks at the bend after 50 years of who knows what downpressure has been applied, then does the owner claim a "defect in material and workmanship" of the tailpiece and demand a free replacement? Does the warranty specify "same or similar"?
If we're debating what a two-word or three-word title means, without reference to the remained of the stated warranty, based on what some "believe" is meant from the title, we're not heading toward a resolution of the situation.
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z"most folks would believe"
More accurate information would be the words that come after "limited lifetime warranty." That's the important part. Exactly what does a particular "limited lifetime warranty" cover? That's where the maker has to be specific.
If the limited lifetime warranty specifies something like "defects in material and workmanship", then if the tailpiece breaks at the bend after 50 years of who knows what downpressure has been applied, then does the owner claim a "defect in material and workmanship" of the tailpiece and demand a free replacement? Does the warranty specify "same or similar"?
If we're debating what a two-word or three-word title means, without reference to the remained of the stated warranty, based on what some "believe" is meant from the title, we're not heading toward a resolution of the situation.
This came out more direct in tone than I intended, and I apologize for that.
Our difficulty may be that there is no single resolution of the issue of how a warranty should work if the provider of the warranty, or a successor, is no longer in business. So it can be frustrating to have to find a replacement part that is no longer being made or to pay for a repair.
If a banjo warranty was put in place in good faith, and honored over the business life of maker, that's good enough for me provided the instrument is one I want to have and is -- from everything I can see -- well made. I'm not going to buy an obviously inferior quality instrument on the if-come that if something goes wrong then the fix will be free, forever. But that's me.
Others may have different decision process, especially if price comes into play. I'll take the manufacturer's 5-years / 50,000 mile warranty on a car, but if I had to pay extra for the warranty, don't know how I'd evaluate the value of a decision, other than paying money for some peace of mind.
Can't get those Yugo parts anymore! Peace, all.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Timer
On the other hand, the pickguard flew apart, AND the tailpiece cracked at the bend on my 1988 Gibson F5-L mandolin. I sent the pieces to Gibson. They replaced or repaired ( the pickguard) at no charge and returned it promptly. No go on the tailpiece crack; I replaced that with an Asian repro and reused the original cover plate on it. So, mixed experience for mandolins.
A lawyer is going to cost more than replacing any part on a Gibson banjo, IMHO.
Such a coincidence, Dick!
A few months after getting my A5-L in 1995 the dreaded tailpiece crack started developing.
A Bluegrass friend picked it up at Grühns and decided I needed it more than he would have at the time.
Sadly, he died 8 years later, I'm treasuring this instrument as a dear reminder.
But when the tailpiece started failing, I made some detailed pictures and sent these to Gibson, stating that I wouldn't ship my instrument across the Atlantic, neither would I drop by for personal delivery.
Stating that I would be perfectly capable of replacing a tailpiece, I asked for a new item, for me to install.
While the endpin felt extremely stuck I also asked if a replacement ( in case) for that wasn't too much asked.
Within 4 weeks I had my replacement tailpiece plus some endpins....
Having the latter at hand I put in some more force and the endpin came out unharmed after all.
31 years later I'm still enjoying the instrument as I was back then...
Well, I LOVE the analogy of instruments warranties to the Yugo automobile. Thing is, IF you had a yugo, NO BODY went anywhere. You wouldn't go, I wouldn't go, we wouldn't go.....
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