It's my thoughts that newbies don't know that improvisation is what they are aiming for, or should be, when they take up the banjo. Many folk think there is only one way to play a song. Some have played piano or some other instrument where they used musical notation and played it note for note.

Most newbies don't understand transposing and don't know about chord sequence for a song.

It's all a learning situation. As they learn the basics and go on to bigger and better playing, start going to jams and realizing that songs are not played note for note, then they start learning about breaks/improv.

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Originally posted by Nopix

Why do people want to to sound just like the record?

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I don't want to necessarily "sound just like the record", but I'm satisfied when I can play along with the record so whatever I'm playing makes a good duet.

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

It's my thoughts that newbies don't know that improvisation is what they are aiming for, or should be, when they take up the banjo. Many folk think there is only one way to play a song. Some have played piano or some other instrument where they used musical notation and played it note for note.

Most newbies don't understand transposing and don't know about chord sequence for a song.

It's all a learning situation. As they learn the basics and go on to bigger and better playing, start going to jams and realizing that songs are not played note for note, then they start learning about breaks/improv.

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Well said, as usual.

I don't consider changing keys and maybe leaving out the transitional chords, improvising. I don't want three pages of splitting hairs. This stems from a person teaching (not banjo) beginners songs by request. Each tune ridiculously simple, but he has to put in all the fluff.  I think I may understand the reason, but it seems to not teach how to fish, but to sell fish. Savvy?

I think often the goal is to study and emulate the playing of an idol and in the process end up with a bit of the feeling of their playing.

I agree that the best place to end up is being a player a unique sound. However, one way to get to a specfic sound is to follow your inspirations and learn breaks note-for-note.

Jim Mills talked about spending years trying to get the sound of Earl's original cut on Foggy Mountain Breakdown. Jim's playing didn't sound exactly like Earl, but his playing, imo, had the tone and attitude of Earl and the other legends who emulated him.

Not "everybody" wants to sound like ___________*.  Some of us just want to play something that Joe Schmuck would recognize as bluegrass banjo.    I've not heard anybody else play (?) like I do [3,2,4,1/3,2,4,1/3,2,4,1/3,2,4,1/etc./etc./etc./etc.] and I do concede that some people [not banjo players] think I can play banjo, but I'm not convinced.  I like Carl's "play along" objective, but if history is any indication, it ain't in the cards for me.  Fwiw, I'm not complaining or looking for referrals to a course, teacher, method [been there, done that]... just giving my c'est la vie drivel/observations.

After some prompting from a fellow jammer, I got a music teacher to assess my "vocal range."  Apparently it's G2 <> E3, and as I understand things it's about 1/2 of what is considered "normal."  All told, learning about vocal range, the possibility of expanding my range, singing in "different" keys, etc. has probably done more harm than good to this point ..... created mucho doubt, unanswered questions, etc.  Of course, YMMV. 

* And who is this Earl fellow that everybody but me seems to be on a first-name basis with?

Edit: But, but, but, lest anybody think I'm totally incompetent, I can do the 3.2.4.1/etc. in a couple of keys besides open "G". 

Trying to sound just like the record is how you learn how to listen better.

Over the years, I've developed my own style, and don't sound like Earl or J.D. or Ralph or... whoever. I sound like me. I've picked up ideas from all the above mentioned and many others and have incorporated what I liked about their playing into mine. I doubt I play a song the same way twice, I just let the fingers and brain decide what to do.

Other than fiddle tunes, I seldom play note for note and if I can improvise on fiddle tunes I'll do that, too. It's all a matter of interpretation of the song, not sounding like whoever.

Beats me why some folks want to re-invent the wheel. I probably sound like any average bluegrass banjo player , a lot of Scruggs, a smattering of Keith, and I’m good to go. If one sings a well-known song but changes the flavour/words/chords too much it can be fun for the player but audiences raise eyebrows. I don't think I have "my own style". 

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

It's my thoughts that newbies don't know that improvisation is what they are aiming for, or should be, when they take up the banjo. Many folk think there is only one way to play a song. Some have played piano or some other instrument where they used musical notation and played it note for note.

Most newbies don't understand transposing and don't know about chord sequence for a song.

It's all a learning situation. As they learn the basics and go on to bigger and better playing, start going to jams and realizing that songs are not played note for note, then they start learning about breaks/improv.

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An interesting read, texasbanjo. As a newbie, I'm not so sure improvisation is what I should be aiming for with regards to taking up the banjo (maybe that day will come, or maybe it'll never come) but I think it's a pretty big generalisation, re newbies, to say what you did. Similarly, newbies and transposing. I won't offer my generalisations re newbies, but I picked this wonderful instrument up to try and learn - and retain - some stuff, totally new stuff to me, whether it be a few bars or a slightly longer piece...and hopefully make a quite pleasant sound more often than not. As for those of us learning alone - me, with no other musical instrument background, and starting at a later age - with no jams or anything similar to attend, I guess note for note, or as good as can be, is all I can hope for. Just my two cents' worth.

regards

GS

So rolling chords and singing Brakeman Blues or Visions of Mother, or 50 other songs ain't gettin' it?
I'm supposed to devote my life to something I can't get?

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Originally posted by Owen

Not "everybody" wants to sound like ___________*.  Some of us just want to play something that Joe Schmuck would recognize as bluegrass banjo.    I've not heard anybody else play (?) like I do [3,2,4,1/3,2,4,1/3,2,4,1/3,2,4,1/etc./etc./etc./etc.] and I do concede that some people [not banjo players] think I can play banjo, but I'm not convinced.  I like Carl's "play along" objective, but if history is any indication, it ain't in the cards for me.  Fwiw, I'm not complaining or looking for referrals to a course, teacher, method [been there, done that]... just giving my c'est la vie drivel/observations.

After some prompting from a fellow jammer, I got a music teacher to assess my "vocal range."  Apparently it's G2 <> E3, and as I understand things it's about 1/2 of what is considered "normal."  All told, learning about vocal range, the possibility of expanding my range, singing in "different" keys, etc. has probably done more harm than good to this point ..... created mucho doubt, unanswered questions, etc.  Of course, YMMV. 

* And who is this Earl fellow that everybody but me seems to be on a first-name basis with?

Edit: But, but, but, lest anybody think I'm totally incompetent, I can do the 3.2.4.1/etc. in a couple of keys besides open "G". 

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Who has to tell you, yes, you can play?  (who do you trust?)

Y'know some folks are just plain spoken like you and me. Some folk know tricky words and how to use them. We still all get to the same place. 

Mainly I trust me.   

If it’s a song, it should suit the range of the singer.
If it’s a fiddle tune, fiddler calls the key.
If it’s bluegrass, default to B.

I hate B. So did Kenny Baker.