We have a policy at our jams that we allow any number of banjo players, fiddlers, flautist and so on we’ll allow one bassist one tambourine. We’ll tolerate one saxophone (sometimes) but we only allow one spoon!!!!

Nothing so far?

There has got to be something, I mean why would so many experts such as David Holt describe spoons and washboards being used as early as 1850 as instruments without any primary support?

Are "they" (folkies) just making stuff up?

As a recent history graduate, they're probably not making it up so much as they're taking it for granted that ideas will spread. I found a few secondary source articles on the spoons that jump from Ancient Egyptian times to 18th-19th cent. jug bands without talking about anything in the middle.. I agree, it's not quality historical work to just assume there was continuity over the thousands of years in between.

Obviously there's tons of recordings/photos of musical washboards and spoons from the 20s onward, but you're right, I haven't found anything from before that. Granted, amateur musicians in the 1800s weren't posing for photos, and newspapers weren't advertising for them. Still it does seem suspicious that none of these articles are including ANY primary sources mentioning the spoons, even if not photos. You've got me skeptical now too, it could be a documentation problem, but it also could be possible that jug bands were a 20s nostalgia thing more than they actually existed IRL in the 1800s. Like going to Cracker Barrel.

I'm a little late to this thread, have you found anything in the meantime? I'm interested now

alan_bh , nope, nothing has turned up anywhere.

Slight correction, there are extant a large volume of photographs of amateur musicians from the last half of the 19th century. I have boxes of them holding banjos-- and that is just banjos.

So, I knew that there was a very low chance any evidence would turn up before I asked the question.

I have posed similar questions regarding standard German tuned harmonicas during the American Civil War (there were likely none), and playing guitars with plectrums prior to the mandolin fad caused by the 1879/1880 tour of the Spanish Students (but really Nick Lucas).

While it seems plausible to our presentism point of view, it goes against the general culture of the era.

Additionally, metal spoons had to become cheap and common (this happens during the post war industrial revolution), and that commonness needs to run a generation for there to be lots of available second hand mass produced spoons (now we are approaching 1900).

My working theory is that using spoons (and washboards, and various "junk") likely started as a "found object music" gag with vaudeville. We saw a similar bit with the "Japanese Fiddle" (or the shortened version of Japanese), a one string bowed instrument made from a broomstick and cigar box that became popular as a gag instrument that good music could be produced with.

It is fascinating to me that all the folklorists have not asked this question, or have just avoided it and not brought it up when presented.

@Joel Hooks Fair, I meant more that anyone in 1870 who could afford to sit for a daguerreotype could probably afford real instruments too. I am exaggerating though, photojournalism totally existed in the 1880s in cities if nothing else.

Anyway I would love to hear about where/how you've been looking for primary source docs. I've done a couple keyword searches in newspaper archives and haven't found anything either. Like, zero relevant results from before the twentieth century. I found playbills from the late 1800s mentioning minstrel bones, like you said, but not a peep about spoons. An absence of evidence is not evidence of an absence, but if you've been searching for weeks with no dice yet...

You should for real write a thesis on this, I bet a lot of people on here would read it.

alan_bh , Russell's Teapot.

The burden of proof falls on the folklorists and musicologists that make such claims of improvised instruments, specifically spoons.

To me ...
It just makes sense that spoons wash boards ect got used that early..
But..no that is not proof.
Probly alot of whistlers too..

Plenty of evidence of whistling, including it being featured in sheet music. But whistling is a melody instrument.

The question is for primary documentation of spoons being used for percussion between the years of 1850 and 1900. "Spoons" are tools designed and made for preparing, stirring, measuring, serving, and consuming food or beverages.

So far none has turned up.

One problem is that people keep confusing bones with spoons. Those are not the same thing.

I think it’s safe enough to say that if you find out what year the spoon was invented. That will be your answer. And probably the date that music lovers started to regret that it was invented at all. Since then there has been a conscious effort to try and ignore them in the hope that they would go away.

quote:

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Originally posted by martyjoe

I think it’s safe enough to say that if you find out what year the spoon was invented. That will be your answer. And probably the date that music lovers started to regret that it was invented at all. Since then there has been a conscious effort to try and ignore them in the hope that they would go away.

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Yet not one complaint in magazines or newspapers (or journals) about spoons being used to clack along to music.

If what you say was true, seems someone would have complained to someone about it in a letter or postcard.   

I mean, BMG (banjo, mandolin, and guitar) related magazines were pretty much filled up with people complaining about what other people were doing with music.  

Do not ferget Hambone..
Mebee a predecessor of the spoons..?

I mean I can some guy slappin the crap outa himself...musicly..n grabbin a set of spoons...n..clackin them...on a whim...

quote:

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

I mean I can some guy slappin the crap outa himself...musicly..n grabbin a set of spoons...n..clackin them...on a whim...

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My sentiment exactly. The guy who invented the spoons ain't going to get any Nobel prize for music. 

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

I asked this on Facebook but wanted to ask here as well.

I am looking for primary documentation of spoons being played as percussion instruments between the years of 1850 and 1900 in North America.

"Primary documentation" includes (but not limited to) magazine articles, newspaper articles, images (photos or illustrations), letters, postcards, dated personal writings or journal entries originating between the years of 1850 and 1900.

I know about all the websites that make unsubstantiated claims about it being common so I don't need links to those.

Also, minstrel bones and castanets are not spoons.

"Spoons" means metal or wood, such as the type used for eating or preparing and serving food.

I would also be interested in any evidence of purpose made spoons specifically as musical instruments.

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In regard to documented evidence, there are 19th century English primary sources referring to spoons played by novelty music hall performers in the 1880's.
Common availability would no doubt have given rise to local imitation. But the adaption of to-hand items for musical amusement is as old as the hills.

19th century journalism functioned as  a social 'filter' for what was then deemed culturally of little interest or value. Research using print sources has to retain a constant awareness of that reality. Not mentioned does not equate to absence of that activity.

This is another 19th century English reference, this time from the common local setting of a smoking concert. Though still of the novelty act type rather than an instance of spoons as a percussive choice in ensemble with other musicians.

You may find that amending your search criteria in relation to newspaper archives reveals detail that otherwise went unreported. Literate and outwardly genteel Victorians had a huge appetite for reading about crime regardless of the social setting. Accounts of pub brawls, assault, robbery and drunken disorder very often include picturesque and informative background detail of the type that was normally deemed 'unsuitable' and ignored. 

quote:

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

Do not ferget Hambone..
Mebee a predecessor of the spoons..?

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If thats the same as bones (or musical bones) that is where my thought went to as well. Guessing spoons was a progression of bones

Fife and drum guys might have practiced at the table-while waiting on more biscuits back then--you might find something in their data--if you have not already checked their pages--Dan Emmet comes to mind with his many talents

Great! So, how do we get a novelty solo act from the British stage to the isolated regions of Appalachia USA (which is where noted folklorists claim spoons were commonly used as percussion accompaniment).

While interesting and somewhat useful, sadly the article does not answer my original question.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tractor1

Fife and drum guys might have practiced at the table-while waiting on more biscuits back then--you might find something in their data--if you have not already checked their pages--Dan Emmet comes to mind with his many talents

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In a culture obsessed with "etiquette", this is very unlikely.   Would your mother allow you to beat away at her dishes with here good spoons?

Tractor1 oh, tapping/fidgeting impatiently at the dinner table is also not the same thing as playing percussion accompaniment in a musical performance (formal or casual).

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Great! So, how do we get a novelty solo act from the British stage to the isolated regions of Appalachia USA (which is where noted folklorists claim spoons were commonly used as percussion accompaniment).

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You don't have to - is the simple (and fortunate) answer.

The onus is on those who assert as 'fact', to support their claim with at least some form of substantive evidence. Without that, there is no basis to make that assertion.

Time is precious and it's a difficult enough task to discern even when we have access to relevant primary sources  Don't waste yours 'disproving' that which currently has no basis, suggested by people who ignore basic methodology.