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Originally posted by Gwen Taunton

Given that Greg Rich is now affiliated with Gold Tone, at what banjo manufacture date or serial numbers can we safely say we have a "Greg Rich" Mastertone by Gold Tone?

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I think that mostly depends on Gold Tone's marketing department. Greg seems to be bringing it with new designs, and he's always been a master acoustical engineer so I'm sure he's been tweaking the instruments themselves. So far I haven't seen a great deal of publicity about his presence there. To me that's a sign that Gold Tone is letting their banjos (and now, mandolins) speak for themselves.

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Originally posted by Gwen Taunton

Given that Greg Rich is now affiliated with Gold Tone, at what banjo manufacture date or serial numbers can we safely say we have a "Greg Rich" Mastertone by Gold Tone?

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What he has said repeatedly is that he does not have the same role and responsibility at GoldTone that he had at Gibson, R&K, or Music Link.  He gives credit to the staff for product development and says he is consulting on designs.  (He talks about this on his FB page where he previews stuff in the pipeline).  So I don't know that there will be a "Rich Era" GoldTone like there was at Gibson.  The way I read it is that he is working on designs, but not as responsible for sourcing components, etc. as he was at his other stops.  But I might be wrong.  I was once before.  

Maybe my hearing is not as bad as I thought.

I had them listed in the correct order (by me) as the Style 6, the Rich era Gibson, the Gold Tone, then whatever the adjusted sound bite was. I had the Style 6 and the Greg Rich Gibson as pretty close.

Maybe Gibson should start making banjos again. Of course, they might have to buy the Mastertone label back from Gold Tone. I’ve had the OGs, and I have the Gold Tone. I’ve also had a Washburn (first one) that had an all aluminum pot. Eek. Once I played a Gibson, I knew. I’ve also played a Deering. Very different from the rest. But, I think the classic Grenada tone ring (the JLS) on a birch block rim, and on a maple banjo, is a winning combination. Side by side with 3-ply rims, it’s just louder and more defined. 4th string bass also seems lower, to me. It growls.

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Originally posted by banjoez

In person which of these banjos had the most volume? My Granada reissues sounded decent tonally but my Grandee runs rings around them volume-wise with more "sparkle" and clarity overall. 

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My impression when I did the test was that the Grandee had more volume than the Gibsons. I feel the same way about my Twanger - it is truly a loud banjo, good sounding and very assertive.

That said, volume is secondary to tone to my ear. On stage, the difference in volume can easily be made up with sound system tweaks or different mic technique. In a jam session or band practice, I find myself holding back when playing the Twanger because the additional volume overpowers much of the rest of the band. In a jam session, especially an outdoor session where people can be further apart and the playing can be a bit more... competitive, the extra volume is often an advantage.

In any of these situations, it's important to be aware of the amount of sound you're putting out, and be able to control it. Treat the extra volume as headroom and you'll find yourself doing a lot less work and bringing out the best in the banjo at the same time.

Regarding tone, which you describe as "sparkle" and clarity, I have to say that in person the Gold Tone's notes have more punch and front end, but the tone of the Gibsons - and the prewar -6 especially - has more "body" and is much easier to shape. Thanks to the style of the band I'm in, I do a fair amount of mellow playing when performing, and find I can get more of a range of tones out of the -6 than I can out of the Twanger.

I wasn't able to experiment much with the Grandee on stage, since it didn't have fifth string nails when I had it. I did bring it to a couple of shows and played it on tunes that didn't require retuning the fifth, and to my ear it responded more like the Gibsons than the Twanger does. Part of that, at least, is the different sound and response of maple vs. mahogany. The Grandee was auctioned off in May at Banjo Camp North so I no longer have it for experimenting, but it's easy to remember the side-by-side sounds.

In any case, all four of the banjos perform well. They're different, which is to be expected, but if you spend a reasonable amount of time with any of them you find and adapt to their strengths.

from what i have heard and read wayne is the one who designed the grandee any how..... don't think greg had anything to do with it so far.

to my ears # 3 and #4 were heads and tails above the rest...
hard to say unless you are picking them or sitting right in front of them.

I realize the Gibson mystique still holds an important place in the banjo world and at one time I was there too (owned a prewar flathead, several archtops and many flathead reissues) but to be honest, there are lots of great sounding banjos out there today. I've been very impressed with what Gold Tone has accomplished tonally with their Mastertone line. If they were manufactured here everyone would be excited about them but then again, they would probably be out of reach cost wise for many if they were. To me, they have filled the void that Gibson abandoned of affordable, well made, great sounding Mastertone style banjos for the every day picker.

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Originally posted by banjoez

I realize the Gibson mystique still holds an important place in the banjo world and at one time I was there too (owned a prewar flathead, several archtops and many flathead reissues) but to be honest, there are lots of great sounding banjos out there today. I've been very impressed with what Gold Tone has accomplished tonally with their Mastertone line. If they were manufactured here everyone would be excited about them but then again, they would probably be out of reach cost wise for many if they were. To me, they have filled the void that Gibson abandoned of affordable, well made, great sounding Mastertone style banjos for the every day picker.

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Exactly right. I had a Mastertone. Old one. Stolen in the 80s. My Gold Tone, top of their line, reminds me a lot of it. It's a Florida-based company, but I get it. Honestly, I've had friends who own Deerings and old Gibsons play it, and they always hand it back with a sneer, after playing it for at least 30 minutes... Yeah. So, it has a JLS tone ring, which was copied from a pre-war Granada, and made in Texas. It also has a Joe Pass birch block rim, also made in USA. It's crazy loud, and deep. Know what it doesn't have? Plastic binding. It's all curly maple. Also has an ebony fretboard and a very low action. It's crisp, deep, and actually almost too loud. My Gibson needed to be mic'd to be that loud. I've also put Keith tuners on it, all four, and a nice maple arm rest to match the headstock. So, it's not entry level at all. It's still quite expensive, especially with the addition of the tuners, but I really think that for about $3400, all-in, it really cannot be beat.

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Originally posted by banjoez

I realize the Gibson mystique still holds an important place in the banjo world and at one time I was there too (owned a prewar flathead, several archtops and many flathead reissues) but to be honest, there are lots of great sounding banjos out there today. I've been very impressed with what Gold Tone has accomplished tonally with their Mastertone line. If they were manufactured here everyone would be excited about them but then again, they would probably be out of reach cost wise for many if they were. To me, they have filled the void that Gibson abandoned of affordable, well made, great sounding Mastertone style banjos for the every day picker.

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I agree with that. I'm still a fan of what Gibson has done over the decades. When I go out to play a show I still reach for a Gibson, one of the two in the comparison test. (The Grandee in the test was on loan, and is not in my stable anymore.) But Gibson is no longer in the business, and their level of interest in ever returning to it is apparent from the fact that they abandoned the Mastertone name knowing full well that it would end up in the hands of another company. If that's not passing the torch, I don't know what is.

Fortunately, the torch (and the name) ended up in the hands of Gold Tone, one of the few companies building at scale whose primary focus and reason for existence is banjos. Gold Tone has found a way to continue the evolution of the instrument while keeping their prices within a range that most banjo players can afford, something that Gibson was having more and more trouble doing as they neared the end of banjo production. Hardly a month goes by without Gold Tone releasing a new banjo that focuses on an unaddressed need or want in the marketplace. I suspect Greg Rich has a lot to do with that today, but he’s continuing a strategy that preceded him at Gold Tone from the early days.

As a teacher, I try to stay current on the options available for my new and upgrading students. For years I bought a new banjo in that price and quality range every two years and taught with it. Flinthill, Gold Star GF-85, Recording King RK-35 and 75. I bought a Gold Tone OB-3 in 2021 and the purchases stopped there. While the banjos before it were a good introduction to what a pro banjo should be, the OB-3 is a pro banjo in just about every way. It’s not my 1929 Style 6 flathead or 1988 Greg Rich Granada, but I have used it for shows and it has done the job adequately. As a teaching banjo, it is something my students can aspire to, and at this point I have had four students buy OB-3s.

The Grandee is a step up but it appeals to a different market. When it was released, I wanted to see how Gold Tone did in following Gibson’s designs up the line, and I was very impressed with what I saw and heard. In many ways it’s not a direct copy of the Granada, and there are things about it I’d like to see changed. But it’s an impressive instrument that in some ways fills, and in other ways redefines, the Granada niche.

Before WW2, the Style 3 was Gibson’s entry level Mastertone and cost $100, or $2000 in today’s dollars. The OB-3 is $2100 list – by that standard, Gold Tone’s -3 is right in line with what a prewar banjoist would have paid. And for a bluegrass player, the line is filled with great banjos – the AC-1/AC-5, BG-175, OB-3 and Grandee offer a good choice at every price point. Lots of Gold Tone’s other banjos offer different woods and decorations. For banjos, Gold Tone is definitely filling the role Gibson took on in the 1920s and 1930s.

Wow, I didn’t mean this to sound like a sales pitch. Just relating my experience with the Gold Tone brand.