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So let's talk about chords

From oldwoodchuckb on 1/11/2012 1:39:41 PM

As I said in my comment about backup to abbey and jorta, I sort of do have a Thing about chords. I try to do as much without them as possible. I was a guitarist long before I picked up a banjo and I feel that chords are for the rhythm section - like the guitar, not for the "lead" instruments - banjo and fiddle, in Old Time Music. Bluegrass is (like Bebop jazz which arose at the same time) all about playing the chord changes and improvising on top of them

You have to remember that I see RSB as being an antidote to all the Chord based playing that is taught now. A lot of clawers have come over to OT from a bluegrass and/or straight folk background, or they started as guitarists and I think they are basically complicating both the music and their lives with too many chords.

I like my Old Time raw. I find that it almost always becomes something else when you try to refine it. Remember Old Time is the basis upon which modern Country was built and also where the mainstream of bluegrass started. Once you start manipulating OT it is very likely to turn into one or the other - and it can also become Blues and Rock without much alteration. Elvis was as Old Time when he started out as Gillian Welsh is today.

I'm admittedly not a Gillian Welsh fan. I don't like her Country/OT combination very much and don't listen to her often. This is getting into taste (a purely personal thing but hear me out on this, because:

I really approve of her, because I hope some small percentage of her listener's will go deeper into OT than she does and help keep the music itself thriving - instead of using it simply as another "atmosphere" in a country song. Which is jes'fine actually, but really not my thing.

What is the actual diff?? I don't know and can't really tell you, but I can hear it and know which I prefer. It is like the definition of porn that one supreme court justice stated "I know what it is when I see it."

Not that there is anything wrong with that - seriously folks. I am not averse or adverse to Welch or any of the others bringing a bit of OT into their acts. Not at all. But I am all about growing as a player and building on the OT way of playing - with full realization it has no commercial potential. It is true back porch music, and I would like to know there are many many others out playing OT on their back porch on any given evening

Getting back to chords - this was an essay on chords right?

When it comes to  folk songs - and even Old Timey Folk Songs like Charlie Poole's, Leaving Home or Milwaukee Blues, chords are perfectly good so far as I'm concerned. Look at Chapter 11 in RSB for soe folk songs with a few different backup styles - including Buell Kazee and Tom Clarence Ashley's fast bum-pa did-dy backing against slow songs - I love it.

I'll stop here with some questions. What do you think about chords and what would you like to see done in teaching OT songs? Should I come up with some pure chord arrangements of OT fiddle tunes you can use as templates? What do you do when confronted with tunes you don't know at jams? Should there be more or fewer actual songs in RSB #2? Is anyone willing to post an OT song video of themselves or a friend doing a song backup that we can analyse? Please post no videos of others without their written permission. This is not the place to get into copyright battles.

Of course it is legal to post a link to a youtube video we can all look at and discuss. I can even tab out a few of thier licks without getting too deep into intellectual theft - especially if they are doing a trad figure for backup.

Let the games begin - and I'm very gratified to see so many familiar and unfamiliar avatars here. I think this group just might work out.

Tony

3 Comments
	jorta says: 1/11/2012 3:36:45 PM Thanks Tony! I ask the question based upon my dissatisfaction with my own playing when I don't know a song at a jam. Right now I bum-ditty the chords as I best I can. In that respect, chords are great as I can contribute something to the jam. I can't pick out songs very well (yet) but when I try, I'll start with chords then. In those two respects, knowing the chord forms in each tuning for the four or five most common chords is helpful. "What do you do when confronted with tunes you don't know at jams?" Sometimes bum-ditty with chords sounds good - and sometimes not, or I'm just bored with doing it for three songs in a row. When I get a chance to listen to other banjo players during the jam, they are not playing the full melody, and they are not doing bum-ditty - they are doing something else and it sounds good - like what the banjo is supposed to be doing if that makes sense - but I have not quite figured out what it is. What would an aspiring young banjo player progressing through RSB do in that circumstance?
	oldwoodchuckb says: 1/11/2012 9:59:29 PM jorta, I can tell you what the others are probably doing. They have a sketch of the melody in their heads and are able to choose the notes from that sketch as they play. It is actually easier than it sounds, but it does involve knowing enough tunes that you can sort of "pick out" where the melody is at any given time. I have no way of proving this but I have a theory that knowing the right 100 fiddle tunes would give you all the melodic patterns you are ever likely to need in playing OT music - the problem is figuring out which 100 tunes you need to know. That sounds like a joke but I have been searching for the answer to that 100 necessary tunes now for about 35 years and haven't figured it out yet. Consequently I have to recommend learning a whole slew of tunes until it starts to jell in your mind. I know that in my jam group most of the participants can pick up tunes on the fly. Some of these people are much better players than me, others are much closer to beginners, but we almost all have the "knack" of more or less learning tunes on the fly - except for the guitarists. I think a lot of what this group is going to be about is people finding a way into the "charmed circle" of jammers. I think OT is the best route into that circle, surpassing blues because there is much more variety in OT than in modern (Chicago style) blues. Once you get into the first group you can progress through more and more complex musics as your jamming ear and fingers improve. Somewhere I have my Sketched out versions of "Fisher's Hornpipe". If they aren't in RSB I'll gladly email you (or anyone who writes to me) a copy of them so you can learn how and how not to simplify tunes to get a whole batch under your belt.
	oldwoodchuckb says: 1/11/2012 10:07:09 PM Modification to the above: When I say that most jammers have a sketch of the tune in their heads I don't mean they know the tune at all. By listening to the tune through a couple times you develop an approximate feel of the tune - an outline of its shape. As you play it over and over you begin to fill in that outline. Many years ago I found that I usually was beginning to get a good idea of the tune about the time they called "One More Time". Nowadays I feel I get most of it in 3 times through - with some notable and disasterous exceptions "Five Miles From Town" is the bain of my existence, but I refuse to give up on it and find it on a website or in sheet music. Once I can get it, I feel I will have passed a major milestone in my own playing.
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